R Scores in strong programs for students with the new IFGZ

[NervousStudent]

Have R Scores in strong programs for students with the new IFGZ calculation (secondary school marks) gone down significantly? I'm mainly talking about Marianopolis, Brebeuf DEC Santé and Brebeuf BI Santé.

For the latter, the administration claims that the average R Score is in the 33 range (something that previous students have echoed) yet I personally got 1% above the average in a class and finished with 30.000. Many students in the program have similarly stated they they got R Scores that were at least 1-2 points below reasonable expectations. In DEC, the average R Score seems to have dropped from a 32ish to a mid 29.xxx. Can anyone confirm this? Is this the new IFGZ at work? Have R Scores gone down across the board, just in strong programs or has nothing changed whatsoever? Some of our guidance counselors have received 40+ emails from students in the past two days, so I'm guessing something happened. Any insight would be much appreciated.

 

[Quak]

I am writing this considering you're in your first year of CEGEP. I don't know if this is going to help, but the number that CEGEPs' administration claims to be the average R score is usually the average R score of the GRADUATING class of the program. When it comes to the science DEC, the incoming class and the graduating class are very different. At least, that is what I've noticed. Many people, usually people who do not boost the IFGZ, will drop out of the program along the way. Thus, the IFGZ and the average R score are considerably higher at the end of the program than they are at the beginning. And, it is usually the average R score of the graduating class that CEGEPs will display to potential students. If you consider that, then your R scores might be perfectly normal. But of course, that is only my hypothesis and no one knows your situation better than yourself. And, it is totally normal to have doubts considering that these are not normal times at all. Hope this helps!

[soupefroide]

Hey! I assume this is your first year of cegep since older students are barely affected by the new IFGZ adaptation. Nevertheless, the Brébeuf Santé average R Score dropping down to 29 sounds quite surprising to me—as a reference point, 93% of Marianopolis Science graduates finished with 30+ in 2020.

Anyway, in which class did you get that R Score? I would say 30 is pretty typical of an average grade in gen ed courses, but it does sound rather low for a science class. That being said, do you feel that class averages were higher than they should have been due to online school? This might have had more of an impact than the new IFGZ calculations, because judging from this BCI publication, I don't see why stronger students would get penalized. If anything, private CEGEPs tend to attract students from private or IB high schools where the strong IFGs and small IDGs would make for higher IFGZ values.

Regardless, if it turns out that there is indeed a systemic devaluation of the new R Scores, then the good news is that it applies to everyone in your cohort. You will be competing with people who have suffered from the same kind of "levelling down", and 2022 university cutoffs will most likely reflect that reality.

[NervousStudent]

1 hour ago, soupefroide said:

 

Anyway, in which class did you get that R Score? I would say 30 is pretty typical of an average grade in gen ed courses, but it does sound rather low for a science class. That being said, do you feel that class averages were higher than they should have been due to online school? This might have had more of an impact than the new IFGZ calculations, because judging from this BCI publication, I don't see why stronger students would get penalized. If anything, private CEGEPs tend to attract students from private or IB high schools where the strong IFGs and small IDGs would make for higher IFGZ values.

 

It was an IB course (IB adventure). I was very surprised to see a 30 for having the class average as that seems quite low for a normal DEC science course and this class only has IB Science students.

[soupefroide]

2 hours ago, NervousStudent said:

It was an IB course (IB adventure). I was very surprised to see a 30 for having the class average as that seems quite low for a normal DEC science course and this class only has IB Science students.

C'est "BI-Aventures Plein Air", right? I just checked really quickly and it's a physical education course, so 30 sounds reasonable to me. Don't stress about it! It also seems that students in the Social Science IB program take the same course, so it's possible that they lump all of you in a common evaluation group when they calculate the R Score. I suppose that would bring the IFGZ down.

[lefttheforum]

On 2/12/2021 at 9:49 PM, NervousStudent said:

It was an IB course (IB adventure). I was very surprised to see a 30 for having the class average as that seems quite low for a normal DEC science course and this class only has IB Science students.

I am so surprised... I'm In my last session out of 4 of SLA at a (very) public cegep and I heard our class average gives 32,6 ish r score... maybe covid altered the selections of candidates in such a way that it was hard for admission committee to choose the best students for programs with high r score reputation, thus lowering the general IFG and average r score.

I'm really sorry this happened, I understand choosing a program for the IFG and making sure to work hard for that score, but the fact that many Cegepiens had the same experience might lower the minimal r scores a lot... or lowering the importance the faculties of med give them alltogether, because of how inaccurate it's become 

[Ttmed]

Hi nervous student

what cégep do you go to? Brebeuf?

in previous years, cote r of 38-39 average is possible in brebeuf BI or sla  or Mariano .Do you know if this year anybody of brebeuf or mariano got a cote r that high?

thanks

[lefttheforum]

don't know if it helps, but I went to a public SLA program and got 38,5 cote globale (this application season).... the program scared people, was considered very hard, so only good students applied, which got our IFG up. I calculated, and my group's IFG was around 1,55. If in my public SLA program its possible to get that, I'm sure you'll get 39+ in selective/private  SLA programs. 

[Cote-r]

5 hours ago, alex686 said:

don't know if it helps, but I went to a public SLA program and got 38,5 cote globale (this application season).... the program scared people, was considered very hard, so only good students applied, which got our IFG up. I calculated, and my group's IFG was around 1,55. If in my public SLA program its possible to get that, I'm sure you'll get 39+ in selective/private  SLA programs. 

I do agree with that. However, the question remains for those who just started CEGEP and would graduate in 22. For these students, the IFGZ were not calculated as usual due to covid. It appears that the IFGZ are lower than expected even at private very selective institutions.

[lefttheforum]

23 hours ago, Cote-r said:

I do agree with that. However, the question remains for those who just started CEGEP and would graduate in 22. For these students, the IFGZ were not calculated as usual due to covid. It appears that the IFGZ are lower than expected even at private very selective institutions.

yes, right! i think those usually very selective institutions have a harder time to find the strongest candidates in HS, therefore those who will up the classes' IFGZ. But I do think some selective programs will easily give 39+, and others usually 39+ programs won't. 

I think the size of the program and the reputation of the program has a lot to do with this (not just reputation/prestige, but the level of difficulty). Students (class of 22) who applied to small (25 ish students) programs that are considered very hard will have the best cote R. Another example is St Lawrence college, with a small number of places (bc its an English school, therefore Gouv tries to make it easier to study in a French cegep) and a good SN program. Like in my case, even tho I graduate this year, my program is not "contingenté", but just the best students apply bc its a "scary program", and we're barely 25, which gets our IFGZ really up. This scary factor and small number of great students is something that won't change bc of the pandemic, in my opinion.

But, for selective programs with a loot of places (brebeuf SN) and where school prestige overpowers the impression that the program is impossible to succeed in, so many students apply, and the school as a hard time (bc of no ministère exams in HS, etc) to figure out who are the best students, therefore creating classes with way lower IFGZ  than before. I could also add that maybe they accept students, even those who in regular times would've been refused, just bc of covid situations, etc etc. I think with exams at home, there no more extremes for class 22 in large selective programs (no very high 1,7-1,8, but no very low either), because doing well in HS is different than doing well in a examen du ministère. Everyone basically looks very similarly academically, at one point. 

In general quebec, I think there will be less applicants extremes (less 38-39-40) than before, more around 35-36, and maybe the average r score accepted to med will go down a little. 

just a theory tho, have no clue what's it like to finish HS in a pandemic or start cegep in a pandemic, but sending good vibes to all those who have to go through thiissss !