Canadians going to American schools.

[Guest smooth operater]

I heard that it's a pretty much guranteed admission to US private dental school if you have an average above 75%, above 20's on DAT, and decent extrcurricular activities? Is it true? This is what I heard from my friend. Any Canadian planning to attend US schools?

[Guest Aplusdent]

Well I'm applying to schools in the states and in Canada. There are more schools in the states (as well as more people applying...) and they look for more "well-rounded" individuals. They also look at your extracurriculars, reference letters, and personal statement. Plus you usually find out way before Canadian schools whether or not you are accepted (less stress waiting). Some schools interview as soon as September...that being said they usually cost more especially if you're out of state/private school, and if you apply to Canadian schools (and that's ultimately where you want to go, the states being backup) then you'll probably have accepted U.S. school offers before you've even heard about an interview in Canada...which sucks because you'll be wondering which country you'll end up in and may have to change all your plans at the last minute....people are just NOW finding out about acceptances in Canada...which freaks me out. So incredibly slow. They should just jump on the AADSAS bandwagon and speed up the process for everyone.

[Guest tamkhan1]

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[Guest Tonick]

Tamkhan, from what I've seen most schools in North America follow this general scheme:

 

yr 1 - basic sciences, anatomy, principles of Dents, etc.

yr 2- more lectures, pre-clinical usually involving Sim Lab

yr 3 & 4 - clinic

 

I don't know of any CDN schools that get you into the clinic or even sim lab from year 1. In fact I think the earliest for clinical practice anywhere is year 3. There's probably a law or something that keeps this constant across the board. Also, the only school I know of that allows you to use the Sim Labs before year 1 is CASE in Cleveland.

 

Smooth, what you said about guaranteed admissions to U.S schools is b.s. To put things into perspective, I applied to 12 U.S schools (a little bit late), got 2 interviews and 1 acceptance. I'm a pretty competitive applicant, with much higher stats than what you had as your baseline. The U.S is totally different when it comes to admissions. Yes the GPAs may be a little bit lower, but you have to destroy your DAT, because the CDN DAT is easier than the U.S DAT. Also, most schools have research and dental shadowing as "unspoken requirements." In the states they're also big on "dental legacies," that is, if your pops or uncle went to the school you're applying to, you're pretty much guaranteed admission even if you don't deserve it as much as Joe Schmo version 3.7. Lastly, U.S schools, although private, still like to fill their class with American students first, and hey why shouldn't they? There's a reason why there's only a small dashing of Canadians down there.

[Guest Aplusdent]

Tonick,

Why do you say the U.S. DAT is more difficult? Because of the organic section? I'm just curious because i'm currently studying for the U.S. DAT (writting it at the end of July)...is there something i'm missing? 8o

[Guest Tonick]

Yeah, it's got Organic, and also Quantitative Reasoning (basically Calculus). That's not to say Orgo and Math are hard, but it's just more to cram into your head!

 

Keep in mind that I think the U.S DAT is written on computer, so do the tests that come in the CD of the Kaplan book. It'll be a better "simulation" of the actual test. Oh and Americans don't refer to it as the DAT (in one word), they like to say it by spelling out the acronym D-A-T... Don't ask me why, it probably has something to do with their SATs...

 

Good luck bud, let me know if you want any admissions advice for the East coast.

[Guest tamkhan1]

tonick, are you sure about that year 3 clinical thing at cdn schools. when we went for the interview at uwo, they told us that simulation clinics start off from year one. infact, from day 1!

 

so theres no point in attending cdn schools then, if they dont offer early clinical practice.

[Guest Tonick]

Hmmm you know what I think you're right. I now remember that the student on the tour told us that "first years find it difficult to get a lot of practice time in because they share their seats in the sim lab with the D2s."

 

Well, that's a lot better than McGill then I guess. You only start doing preclinical stuff at the end of 2nd year there. Something to consider when picking schools...

[Guest DrBadVibes]

Tamkhan, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Although some schools put more emphasis on clinical requirements than others, all dental students are in preclinic in the first two years and in the actual clinic their last two years. But like I said, some schools have their students spend more time in the clinical stuff more than the boring ole lecture stuff.

 

And FYI regarding those dent sims.....they are all show with no substance...honestly they are completely useless and are not even close in simulating a live patient.....dont listen to the what admissions officers tell you. Their job is to sell the school.

[Guest tamkhan1]

hmm..interesting info. i just know that uwo starts sim clinic from first year. ofcourse, it wudnt compare to the real deal.

[Guest DrBadVibes]

If anyone has any questions about American schools, feel free to ask. Im currently a senior dental student in Philadelphia and I know a lot about the American process. I went to UofT undergrad.

[Guest Aplusdent]

DrBadVibes,

 

Have you been to U of Pittsburgh or the city itself? What's it like? It's one of the schools I've applied to this summer.

[Guest DrBadVibes]

Ill answer your question in a new thread.

[Guest TheChosenOneDDS]

Tamkhan that is bull. That whole clinical practice thing at UWO. FOr once I will have to agree with badvibes, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

Ok I went to U of T, I went straight to work after I grad for a week or two just to see how it was like before never being able to be a general dentist again. My clinical skills were fine. Made some nice money too.

 

ok weather is warm in Texas. Start residency on CANADA DAY of all days ...

 

Doesn't matter which school u go to, if you want to be a General Dentist. ONce you grad dental school you'll be fine. Everyone will be fine. Just get in and survive dental school. Just pass ur Canadian boards, they don't really account for anything (or may be theydo for specialty in Canada, I dunno and didn't care) not like the American ones. Everyone will do well, dentists who do poorly aren't due to being bad clinically, but being either hated by their patients (because they are NOT NICE) or poor money/business management.

 

US private schools are pretty much guaranteed admission if you have money or a legacy. Although decent stats and good DATs are required for the upper tier privates (ivy leagues). It depends on years. Tonick, a lot of canadians aren't down there because they do not think they can afford it. But yeah it is not as easy as people make it. Still, u got in right?

[Guest tamkhan1]

hmm..again, interesting info. so i figure US schools are as good as canadian ones, or even better. howcome everyone talks about cdn schools being better. is it only cuz of tuition?

so whats this whole @#%$ about cdn schools offering better clinical exposure?

why shud one choose cdn schools over US ones, or the other way around?

[Guest tamkhan1]

also, how important are recommendation letters for US schools. i mean, would good gpa and dat score make up for o.k lors? personally, i think no lor is better than an o.k lor.

[Guest Tonick]

Make sure your LORs are really good. Why? Because most American students you're competing against have letters written by "pre-health profession advisory commitees" which are basically panels of professors that meet with undergrads and write them letters. Since U.S schools prefer those letters, you have to make up for it by getting in 3 or 4 solid ones yourself. In most cases you will need 2-3 science prof letters, plus any letters from dentists you shadowed wouldn't hurt either.

[Guest DrBadVibes]

tamkhan, you are definitely misinformed about this whole situation.....and its not just you....I'd say 95% of canadian students applying for dents outside of Canada have no clue what is going on......trust me....I sit in the admissions office all the time with the director and he is always amazed of the stupid questions he always gets from Canadian students.....

 

so thats why Im hoping I can help you guys figure stuff out, cause I remember when I applied, I also knew nothing.....so this must change.

 

As far as your statement regarding what you heard about Canadian schools, Im gonna tell you this. People have the absurd misconception that just because the GPA average to get into Canadian schools is higher, than it must mean the school is better.....hahahahaha, that is so far from the right answer.....

 

Grades has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FIELD OF DENTISTRY....NOTHING.

 

Ill tell you...out of my class, the guy who is ranked last (I know him very well) will be wayyyyyyyyyy more successful than anyone that is ranked in the top 25....guaranteed. why? cause he has incredible personal skills, he is not clueless and he is incredibly business savy. Now that is what makes a dentist money.....

 

Knowing the Krebs cycle in and out will get you nowhere in this field.......if you deny this, then you are in for a major wakeup call...

 

As far as the question, "so whats better, the US or Canada??"...that question cannot be answered cause the country has nothing to do with the education......you must treat each school differently and individually...regardless of what country its in.

 

For instance, I'd take UofT over many US schools, and I'd take many US schools over UofT.....every school is completely different and you honestly have to realize this!!!

 

Ill give you another example.....one of my classmates is from Vancouver....his dad is a dentist in Vancouver who graduated from my school....both his brother and sister also graduated from my school (that means 4 BC dentists in the familY all from my school....talk about legacy!!!).....they told me that they would never hire a dentist from UBC, because UBC's clinical requirements are subpar. For instance at UBC, it used to be that you would get credit to watch someone do a procedure and not actually do it, cause they had a lack of faculty/patients. That is truly absurd and Im surprised that licenses could be handed out like that, but its true......they are.

 

Is it still like that??? I dunno....maybe. The best thing for anyone who is interested in UBC is to ask the current students and most recent graduates...hopefully they'll be frank and honest with you.

 

Dont assume that just because its UBC, or its in Canada, or its hard to get into, that the school must be good. These assumptions can get you in a lot of trouble.

 

Remember, when you graduate, the dentist who is hiring doesnt care what your grade in biochem was or how high your GPA was.....all they care about is how fast you are and how much you can produce, cause production is the only thing that makes money and making money is all that the hiring dentist wants from you.

 

Dentistry is all business.....remember this is not medicine.

 

Hope this helped.

[Guest DrBadVibes]

Ok so here is the truth about LORs:

 

They will only play a crucial role in the following ways:

 

1. They come from someone that is well known to the admissions committee.....this could be anyone from a well known science professor (like Stephen Hawking!!) or a famous alumni from that specific school. If its from just some Joe Schmo 2nd year chemistry professor, it will be considered neutral no matter how the good the letter is....cause adcoms know full well that when LORs are written, profs have them already made up on the computer and just insert your name. Adcoms are not stupid.

 

2. the adcom will have a checklist of things to look at....first and foremost are grades/DAT. Then the interview. If those two are good, they might turn to the LORs just to make sure....but this is to only check for anything major. If the prof writes something really discouraging about the applicant, this might send up a red flag and the applicant goes from "most likely accepted" to "maybe".

 

Other than that, you should definitely make sure your LORs are good, but if you think that amazing LORs from everyday science professors can make up for low stats, then you are in for a shock, unless like I said its an LOR from someone that the committe has high respect for.

 

So why do they ask for the LORs? Well first of all, its a great way to weed students out, because if students cant get the necessary LORs, then there is definitely something wrong with them. Also, if an adcom is undecided about an applicant, then they need something that will help them make that ultimate and final decision......and the essay and LORs are perfect for that.

[Guest tamkhan1]

thanks a lot for the info. i def. agree with everything youve said.

[Guest Tonick]

Dr. BadVibes, are you telling me that David Suzuki has to write me a letter to get me into Temple? Come on man, chill out a bit. It's hard enough finding LORs, let alone getting some from Profs part of the National Academy of Sciences! For most people, the key is in diversifying your LORs. You want a letter from a humanities prof, 2 or 3 from science profs, and at least one from a dentist you shadowed.

 

Of course you can throw all this out the window if you apply too late. If you plan on getting in for the 2007 cycle good luck, your application is already late... as stupid as that may sound it is the truth. I got screwed by that as well, but managed to get into one of my top choices so I got lucky.

 

Anyways, you really should listen to Dr.Bad, I'd consider him the authority on U.S Schools, mainly due to his reputation on SDN. Sure he probably spends a bit too much time on his computer, but he knows his stuff. So listen to him!

[Guest tamkhan1]

shoot, i still havnt sent in my application; i was waiting for uwo's result:b

i think apps are forwarded to schools in batches, and not individually. not sure, though. i shud send in my app next week. tonick, when did you submit ure app last year?

[Guest Tonick]

I submitted it late October, but printouts were sent to schools mid-November. I was stupid, because I waited to get my LORs in the fall and thought I still had tons of time before deadlines (which I still did). Submit your app even if your LORs are to follow... You're still not too late, obviously you have good enough stats to compete in Canada, so if you get your AADSAS app in before August you should have a shot at a few schools in the States as well.

[Guest tamkhan1]

thanks for the info, man. yea, uwo was the only think that kept me from sendin in my app; i didnt wanna waste almost a grand on US apps.

[Guest tamkhan1]

oh, and one more thing. wud it help if i take the US dat? my cdn dat aa is 21, with an awful score on carving. i dont think carving matters much for US schools. but shud i sit for the US dat?