CND and US schools, MCAT, and GPA - advice requested

[Guest brownthug]

hi there

 

i have a 3.45 - 3.5 (depends on a single mark from 3rd year that still hasnt been posted) GPA for my first 3 years.

 

I wrote the mcat last year and got 30 S (10ps, 9vr, 11bs)

 

individual yearly gpas were 3.4 something 1st year, 3.2 something 2nd year, and 3.6 3rd year

 

i have good exctracurrics (pharmacy, lab and clinical research, volunteer, sports, music, etc)

 

do i have a chance on getting into Canada, including the prairie universities? how bout ontario...

 

OR, should I focus on my American applications and give up on good ol Canada

 

btw, I am rewriting the MCATS in a week in hopes of a significantly higher score...

 

Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[Guest Turg82]

That is a very interesting question But I think the most important issue is where you want to practice after you get your MD. I heard that when you get the MD from US it is harder to practice medicine back in Canada....

 

Of course enormous amount of money needed to earn MD down south can also be the reason for you to not give up on medical schools of Canada.

[Guest 2 plus 2 is 4]

I think you have a better shot at American schools, but that's not to say that you should totally give up on Canada. For Ontario at least, given your stats, you can definitely apply to NOMS and McMaster.

[Guest aneliz]

Your MCAT scores are more than decent... I wonder why you have chosen to rewrite? With the exception of Queen's, I think that you have already surpassed the cuts at every school in Canada... and the Canadian schools usually don't give out any additional points in the application process to high MCATs... as long as you meet the cuts, you are good to go, having a 45 T will not give you any advantages over somebody with the minimums at that school.

 

The thing that will be the biggest obstacle for you I think is your GPA. Unfortunately, most Canadian schools put a good amount of emphasis on the GPA... and an outstanding MCAT score will not compensate for a borderline GPA.

 

With the GPA's that you have listed for us, I would probably do at least one more year of undergrad and really work hard at bringing the GPA up. If you can get another year that is 3.6 or higher, you might have a reasonable shot... however the 3.4's are pretty low...

 

As for the US schools, you probably have a decent chance at some of them... they tend to reward high MCAT scores a little more and have lower GPA requirements as a trade off. That said, an American education is significantly more expensive than a Canadian one.... and you need to consider whether you would be happy living/practicing in the states if you failed to get back into a Canadian residency program... or if you will be happy doing family medicine in Canada or if you have your heart set on Optho or derm...

 

Good luck!

[Guest thecod]

i would say you have a better chance in the u.s. noms and mcmaster, the only two in ontario that you have a chance at, won't even look at your mcat scores. although your grades aren't even that competitive for the u.s., when converted to the u.s. system, they are sure to be higher. (maybe ~3.6)

[Guest arjuna83]

Hi,

 

You mentioned that you were going to use your MCAT scores from this upcoming MCAT in August for your med applications. I'm not sure you'd be able to do this for Ontario schools, as the deadline to submit OMSAS applications is October 1st. MCAT scores usually take approx. 50 days to arrive since the test date. Thus, results might not have arrived by the time of submision.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Guest lex]

No, the MCAT for this August is still valid for the upcoming application cycle (unless something's changed since last year).

 

And no point guessing the Queen's cutoffs. The cutoffs are based on applicant strength; no one knows where next year's bar will be set (MCAT and GPA). Although they've stayed relatively constant with the exception of last year, they're still variable.

 

Are you from Ontario? It seems that responses generally come with that assumption.

 

Additionally, if you maintain your grades through year 4, you'll be in the running for previous year's cutoffs at Western and Queen's.

 

Don't avoid applying based on what you here on these boards. No one can tell you if you're competitive or not. If we could, the whole process would be a lot less intimidating. I definitely wouldn't suggest abandoning your plans to apply in Canada. Your stats look fine to me. Of course, they could be stronger but whose couldn't?

[Guest brownthug]

thanks for the advice everyone

 

im gonna apply in Canada for sure, the Dean of Dentistry at Western is a family friend and I got acquainted with the Associate Dean of CME (Continuing Medical Education) at western as well, but I don't know how much knowing people up there really helps my chances, but at least it makes me feel better.

 

I will also apply to a bunch of colleges in the states (low, mid, and high tier) in hopes that my extracurrics and mcat can offset my gpa.

 

One final question: will my 4th year marks have any weight in the entire application process?

 

thanks again everyone! and good luck!

 

ps. Im writing the MCATS again in a few days, been scoring around 32 on practice ones so hopefully i will do better and improve my american chances of getting in!

[Guest avisee]

I echo lex's question: are you an Ontario resident? If not, your chances could actually be decent, depending on which province you reside in. But it sounds as though you are, in which case, your marks probably won't help you much in the upcoming cycle.

 

As far as I know, sort of knowing the dean of a dentistry school really won't help you, especially at UWO where their cutoffs are firm. Now, contributing several million dollars to a university's medical school might be a different story, but I seriously doubt being a friend of a friend of a dean of a related department will get you anywhere.

 

That said, I don't think your hopes are shot for Canadian schools. You just might have to be patient. It's certainly worth giving Mac and NOMS and shot this year, especially if you have some interesting extracurrics, or come from Northern/rural Ontario. Your marks from fourth year won't be used in the upcoming cycle, but if you wait and apply (or reapply) in the next cycle, they will certainly count. If you pull off some good grades this year (maybe keep your upward trend going just a bit higher), then you may make the Queen's cutoff, and could be eligible at other schools that use your best or most recent 2 years (like Dalhousie and Calgary). You likely won't have a shot at Western since you'd need two separate years over their cutoff (which hasn't for a few years been as low as your so far best year, for whatever that's worth in predicting future trends). However, if you think you can improve your GPA this upcoming year, you might also consider doing a 5th year victory lap, in which case, you could seriously improve your odds. If you meet their stringent requirements for 5th year study, and pull off a higher GPA this upcoming year, you can probably swing an interview at Western without using your official contacts, provided you're willing to wait and extra year (and take an extra year of courses!). Manitoba might also be worth a look, since they have an interesting weighting formula that uses the MCAT significantly, and they drop your lowest marks in calculating your GPA. You may not be competitive in this upcoming cycle unless you just had one or two really bad classes that pulled down your GPA, but if you can get one more good year in 4th year, you could be more competitive there in the next cycle (but you might want to try applying this year anyway).

 

Other alternatives would be to do grad work and apply in graduate pools at U of T and Ottawa, where your undergrad GPA would be fine if you can pull off higher marks in grad and/or publish a lot. But, as discussed in previous threads, that's only a route worth considering if you are genuinely interested in research.

 

The point is, things are never hopeless. You had a slow start, but your last year is decent, and if you can pull up your grades a bit more you can stand a shot at admission in Canada. Canadian med schools are by no means out of reach to you, but you have to be willing to go a few extra miles to make up for your early years. If you're in a hurry and want to start studying med ASAP, then your best bet is to look in the US (though obviously, give NOMS and Mac a shot). If you're willing to wait and work hard, then Canadian schools are not out of reach.

[Guest ManitobaMed]

Hey Brownthug,

 

As I've noticed some mentions upthread of MCAT scores not counting for much in Canada once cut-offs are met, I figured out point out that a couple of prairie schools do factor the MCAT scores in.

 

The U of M gives the MCAT 50% weight in your final admission score. (I haven't heard any different for this year.) A 30 S would translate into an average of 10.75, which is often sufficient for an interview, even as an out-of-province student. (Admittedly, though, a higher score would be even better because of the caliber of OOP students applying and the weight given to the MCAT.) The main problem you might have in obtaining an interview is with your GPA. I would suggest calculating it based on the Manitoba 4.5 scale in order to determine you chances. Keep in mind, too, that the U of M uses an *adjusted* GPA, dropping a certain number of marks based on the number of credits completed (see U of M forum FAQ for details on grade conversion/AGPA calculation).

 

U of A also gives the MCAT specific weight in the final score -- about 15%, according the U of A medicine site FAQ. Again, though, you would have to look into you pre-req average/overall average to determine your chances there.

 

Best of luck!