How can foreigners apply to canadian medical universities

[Guest someone who is confused]

i am right now in the final year of my higher secondary school education and have sincere thoughts of getting an mbbs degree from canada but unfortunately i have no perfect information about the processess i shall be really very thankful if someone could help me out and answer my following questions

 

 

1- Do canadian universities offer mbbs degrees and how many years will it take and since i am a foreigner do i have the chance of getting admission there?

 

2- Do i have to complete any course or get any degree before starting my medical studies (mbbs) in canada and how much time will it take?

 

3- What necessary tests shall i have to take like toefl and sat and which type of sat tests are required for the medical students ?

 

4-Can you give me some information about the fees and other charges and if scholarship can be got or not and can i do part time job for meeting the financial requirements ?

 

5-Can you name some preferrable universities having less fees ?

 

 

Pleaseeeeee reply to the questions since i am in desperate need of help i shall be very thankful to you

[Guest moo]

1. Very difficult for foreigners to gain acceptance to Canadian medical schools. MBBS=MD degree in Canada and the US.

 

2. The MD degree is a four year program after four years of college or university (post-high school). You need a bachelors degree in any degree program (although some schools will take those with two or three years post-high school). This includes, but is not limited to, biology, biochemistry, physics, math, English or foreign language, philosophy, nursing, engineering, etc.

 

3. If you are just in high school, you just need to apply (to undergraduate colleges, NOT med school). Take the SAT or ACT for US colleges. You need to then take the Medical College Admissions Test to get into med school in North America. The TOEFL will probably be required for you for schools in Canada and the US.

 

4. Fees for undergrad (foreign students) is probably around 20000 CAD? Not quite sure about this.

 

5. Hard to answer. Schools in Quebec generally have less fees.

[Guest coastal79]

1. Canadian universities offer MDs, like in the US, not MBBS as in the UK, Australia etc. Since there are not very many Canadian medical schools, and many qualified candidates, the admission process if very competitive. Many Canadians who can afford it, go to the US and other countries to get a medical education because they cannot get in at home. Furthermore, many schools offer only a limited number of spaces to Canadian students who reside in another province, and do not hold any spots for foreign applicants. I know that McGill, which is one of Canada's most reknowned schools, reserves a number of spots for Americans. I don't know their policy, or that of any other school, regarding other international applicants, but I would guess that you would have to be pretty exceptional to get in, and at some schools even that wouldn't be enough.

 

2.Most Canadian medical students have completed a degree before entering medical school. I'd say that no more than a quarter get in after only three years of undergrad (although in certain provinces 3 years constitutes a degree due to longer time in high school), and a few wizards slip in after 2 years of undergrad.

 

3.TOEFL would probably be required to take non-ESL courses in university, but I'm not sure. Due to the importance of communication in medicine, if you struggle with the language I doubt you would get through the interviews that are required to gain admission. You would have to write the MCAT (as you would if you wanted to go to med school in the US), which is usually written after at least two years of undergrad.

 

4.Tuition would probably be through the roof because you are international. Students on exchange in Canada can usually only work on university campuses.

 

I don't want to kill your hopes, but the process would probably be very difficult, cost alot of money, and take you 8 years (4 year undergrad degree, 4 years of medical school). Medical eduaction in the US is more expensive, but international students probably have a better shot there because there are so many more schools and the competition isn't as tough (overall, at top notch schools it is more difficult).

[Guest aneliz]

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said...

 

The short answer is that it is *extremely* difficult (if not impossible) to go to medical school in Canada if you are not a Canadian citizen or landed immigrant. Most medical schools in Canada require that you have permanent status in Canada before they will even look at your application. Most do NOT accept foreign students at all, and those that do usually accept <10 students per year. This is because Canadian medical schools are partially funded by Canadian tax payers...and they reserve the seats for students from their own regions...

 

You cannot enter a Canadian medical school directly out of secondary school (unlike Europe/Australia). All of the Canadian schools require at least 2 years of undergraduate level university degree work with specific pre-requisite courses before you are eligble to apply. Most require a minimum of 3 years of university study and some require completion of a full 4-year honours level degree. Many schools have a large number of students applying after finishing their master's or PhD degrees.

 

Tuition for Canadian students is already high...but those schools that take international students charge the non-Canadian students even more. International student tuition is ~$30-45 000 per year depending on the school. As an international student, you would not be eligible for government financial assistance, so you would have to have the money to cover your tuition and living expenses. There really are no inexpensive options in Canada.

 

Medical school in Canada is 3-4 years long depending on the school. So, the total process, from the end of secondary school until you graduate with an MD would take you minimum 6 years....but it takes most people 7-8 years at least.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

One option for international students wishing to study medicine at a Canadian school is McGill University in Montreal. Their website currently states that they allocate around 22 spots per year for US and international applicants. Here's the address to their FAQ page if you'd like more information:

 

www.medicine.mcgill.ca/admissions/faq.htm

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest shoopshoop]

I used to be somewhat at your "desperate" phase so I hope this will add a little to your info.

Also, the TOEFL or IELTS or some other standardized English test is required for entrance into most universities to enter undergraduate programs, while in the US it is the SAT. When applying to med schools in the US, they don't need to know your SAT scores, but like posted by many it is the MCAT test which is also required in Canada.

 

Ian Wong (the website founder) posted this a few year's back regarding the steps to take when in undergrad...

 

p084.ezboard.com/fpremed1...ID=3.topic

 

Author: Ian Wong

Date: 8/30/2000 5:23 pm PST

 

Here are the tasks that you must complete:

 

1) Complete the undergraduate pre-requisites for medical school. These can vary between medical schools, contact the individual schools to find out. My links page has links to all of the English-speaking medical schools in Canada.

 

2) Write the MCAT. You'll likely need to have completed the university courses as the MCAT tests the same material.

 

3) Get reference letters.

 

4) Apply to medical schools, sending your transcripts, reference letters, MCAT scores, application fees, and autobiographical materials.

 

5) Wait for an interview invitation/rejection letter.

 

6) If invited, travel to medical schools for interviews.

 

7) Wait for an acceptance/rejection letter.

 

Best of luck!

 

Ian

 

 

I hope this helps even just a little bit :b

 

also check the old threads in "Coming to Canada for Medicine" and "Applying to American schools". I got the majority of my info there.

[Guest someone who is confused]

first of all i wanna thank you all for your help i really appreciate that

 

the amount of information i have got is as follows

 

1- MD programme is 4 years programme which requires the student to have completed the undergraduate studies which may vary from 2-4 years depending upon the school but do we have the choice of choosing any subject of our choice for undergraduate studies or there is any special requirement ?

 

2- i need to take SAT tests TOEFL test before applying for undergraduate studies and MCAT before entering the medical school .

One thing i want to ask is that there are different types of SAT tets i.e chemistry ones history ones bio ones etc . Since I am trying for a medical school Do i have to give SAT tests of biology and english only or any other also???

 

3- prices are really high from 20,000CAD to 45,000 depending upon the medical school . do i have the chance to do part time jobs other than those available in the campus???and do they offer scholorships and can i get scholarship on SAT tests etc if i score higher???

 

4- Quebec- i will check that and i shall check the website and links too.

 

what is the least % that one requires to get in the higher secondary school examz to get admission in canada 90% ,80% or 70% ??

 

recently i got to know that if a permanent resident of canada sponsors someone from another country for the studies etc then that person gets a huge reduction in the fees and other financial requirements is it TRUE or just....

 

Most of you have told me that it is really hard to get admission in canada Does that mean that I shall stop searching for Canadian universities and start my search for the American ones or do i have the chance to get admission in Canada ?? Moreover America also offers 8 years for mbbs i guess. I heard that in UK one can complete the mbbs studies in 5 years but the fees etc are very very high .. Is it true ?? Give suggestions

 

 

looking forward to your reply

[Guest moo]

YOu need SAT only for US undergraduate schools. To get into undergrad in Canada, I think nowadays you probably need at least 80% in high school. Not quite sure about this, as I'm too old to be able to answer this question. Also, although you can do any degree (study any subject) you want, you have to take some basic courses like biology, physics, and chemistry before you can enter medicine.

[Guest shoopshoop]

1. Choose whatever degree you want, as long as you also take the prerequisites for the medical schools you want to apply to later.

 

2. You need to ask each American college or university for the number/type of SAT tests they require.

 

3. I doubt you will be able to save the money required for medical school AND undergrad from any job during your studies. Most people take loans to cover their expenses in medical school.

 

Regarding fees for med school in the UK, it IS very expensive... my friend as an international student was accepted into the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin for about 120 000 $ (Canadian) and that is only tuition and fees I think... :x

edit: "royal college of surgeons" and not "of physicians and surgeons"

[Guest aneliz]

Hi,

 

1. You are correct. The MD degree in Canada is 4 years long...and you are required to do at least 2 (but usually 3-4) years of undergraduate level degree studies first. Very few schools in Canada (only one I think) will take students after only 2 years. Most of the rest will take students after 3 years...but a few (3-4 schools) require 4 years. Each school is different and has different requirements. There is no specific university program that you have to do during your first 3-4 years. Many people choose to do science related degrees (biology, biochemistry, etc) but there are people from many different programs in medical school (literature, philosophy, music, engineering, computer science, etc) Many schools require that you take some specific pre-requisite courses during your first 3-4 years of university...things like biology, chemistry, physics, organic chemistry, English, etc. But each school has different requirements and there is no set courses to take if you want to apply to medical school. You need to investigate the requirements of each individual school that you are interested in to determine what courses they require as a pre-requisite. However, most of these courses can be taken regardless of what your degree program is...for example, you do not need to be in a biology degree program to take a biology course. You can be in a music or engineering program and still take biology or chemistry or whatever courses you need.

 

2. You do not need to take the SAT to get into Canadian universities...only American. You will need to take the TOEFL or an equivalent to be admitted into a Canadian university for undergrad. I am not familiar with the SAT structure (Canadian students don't write it unless they intend to go to the USA for university) however, I think that it is a standard test and there are no different versions. I believe that it tests math and English mostly...

 

3. As for part-time jobs...you will need to investigate carefully what the restrictions are on your student visa. You may/may not be able to work in Canada. Many students hold a part-time job while they are undergraduates, but VERY few are able to work during medical school. (You will be in class ~40+ hours per week). I think that there are only about 3 people in my class that work during the school year. There are not many scholarships for medical students... there are bursary funds available (for Canadian students) but they usually are not much (~$2600 for first years at my school). I am not sure how many bursaries are available to non-Canadian students...my school doesn't accept foreign students... Canada does not offer scholarship or bursary money for doing well on the SAT...it is an American test and is not required to attend university in Canada. None of the Canadian schools offer scholarship money for doing well on the MCAT either. Most Canadian students have a large amount of debt by the time they graduate (~$20 000 for undergrad + ~$125 000 for medical school). There are not many opportunities to work in Canada that will earn you enough money to cover your tuition and living expenses while you are a student. Most students pay their tuition with loans from the Government (must be a Canadian to do this) or from banks.

 

4. Quebec has some interesting rules about who qualifies as a 'citizen' of Quebec...it is like a mini-nation within Canada. Tuition fees are lower in Quebec...but only for "Quebec citizen's"...Canadians from other provinces pay higher tuition than Quebec students to attend Quebec schools. Another thing to be aware of: Quebec is a predominantly French speaking province...and the schools with the lowest tuition fees are French language schools.

 

5. Most undergraduate science programs require a graduating average of ~80-90% to be accepted. Some programs require >90%, some will let you in with ~75%. Engineering programs tend to be quite high (85%+). It depends on the school you wish to attend. Large, well recognised schools in Southern Ontario, the Maritimes and BC tend to have higher admissions requirements for undergrad science than smaller schools.

 

Arts programs tend to have a bit lower requirements 75-80%....but there are a number of schools that require 80%+ for arts as well.

 

Most secondary students in Canada hoping to go to university aim to have a final year average of 80%+ and the higher it is, the more options you have.

 

6. Not sure about this... undergrad tuition may be reduced a bit...but medical school tuition would not be reduced. Canadian students are paying $15 000 + for medical school tuition. And tuition in Canada as a whole is not cheap...undergrad tuition in most programs is ~$6000-8000 per year for canadian students....so even if you were able to pay Canadian student rates, you would still be paying that much. You need to check with some universities in Canada and or Canadian immigration to see what the policy is.

 

Your chances in Canada will be very limited. You will have more chances in the US....but it is not up to us to tell you where to go. The US has many more schools and is much more open to international students. Canada is fairly open to international students attending undergraduate schools...but the medical schools are mostly restricted to Canadian citizens and permanent residents (landed immigrant status). I think that it will be VERY difficult for you to get into a Canadian school for medicine.

[Guest quebecboy]

Hey,

 

Although it is pretty difficult to be admitted as an international student, it isn't impossible. My girlfriend came straight from Vietnam after high school to Laval University two years ago, in order to study biochemistry (that's where I met her ). She did one year, and was then admitted into medicine. So in other words, she only did one year of university after her high school before being admitted into medicine. Of course, she had stellar grades in High School (and finished first on the entrance exam for medicine in the Vietnamese faculties), and did very good in the 1 year of biochem, but if you have similar grades and all, go for it, you might just get in. As for the tuition fees, they are pretty expensive for foreign students. However, in her case, Vietnam has bilateral agreements with Canada (and Quebec), so she pays the same tuition fees as us Quebecers (around 3400 CDN / year). It may be good to check if your country has the same kind of bilateral agreements. Also, you don't need to take the MCAT in Quebec medical schools (except for McGill), but a basic to good knowledge of french is necessary (except for McGill, where the courses are given in english).

 

Quebecboy

[Guest someone who is confused]

Okay so i shall have to search for the universities in order to know about the type of SAT test required if you know any good websites or search engines related to canadian universities then do tell me .. and what about the sponsorship .. someone told me that if someone who is a permanent resident in canada sponsors a student then the student can get a huge reduction and in the end need to pay just 4500 CAD / year is it TRUE and i do not have to pay the whole my parents will support me financially and i just wanted to help them by taking scholorships and part time jobs .. is it true that after the first year of medical school one can get scholorship of about 2600 CAD if that person scores high ... and is there any scholorship based on MCAT scores or TOEFL

 

Thank you for cheering me up quebec boy but unfortunately i do not know even the ABC's of French and there is no chance of me getting started to learn it .. I truly hope to get in there ... anywayz i am keeping my fingers crossed and am likely to take TOEFL test soon ...

 

 

I would like to take relatively simpler subjects for my undergraduate studies .. Is there any chance of getting scholorship by excelling in undergraduate studies? i shall like to take the subjects which could help me complete my undergradute studies as soon as possible ..

 

 

the information you are giving is really working .. though it is difficult to get in there , it is not IMPOSSIBLE ... keep giving me suggestions on the subjects i shall choose for undergraduate studies since this is the time when i have to make up my mind and pls answer the questions i have asked

 

looking forward to your reply

[Guest cutieyellow]

Hey,

 

I really think that if you're considering Quebec, you're better off at McGill university because of the high amount of International students they take. Quebecboy's girlfriend is stellar- they only take 2 international students per year and she was one of them. Again, not impossible, but highly difficult.

 

It's a question of will, and how much you're willing to work for it. I don't know if taking 'simpler' subjects for the undergrad is necessarily showing much character though. You must not go into a program because you 'heard that it was easy', because if you don't like it, no matter how 'easy' you heard it was, you will not perform. You must always enter a program because you're interested. As soon as you like what you're doing, it will always seem easier to you and your grades will reflect that.

 

Good luck.

 

CY

[Guest someone who is confused]

hey,

 

by simpler subjects i mean that i am not very keen to get an engineering degree during my undergraduate studies which will definately take whole 4 years to complete undergraduate studies i would rather want to take the subjects which may help me complete my undergraduate studies as soon as possible coz my main aim is to be a doc and not anything else i can not see myself as anyone else

 

For your information both my parents are doctors and my sister is also a doctor studying for her plab test nowadayz and by this you can understand how much this field is liked by our family and i am in the favour of becoming a doc because i am interested in it and i have seen them working and just admire this field and during my whole academic year from KG to higher secondary school, i have been a position holder in my school and now in college just to get good grades and be able to become a doctor and i am also not afraid of hard work i am fond of studying an indolent student can not afford to be a position holder for 13 whole years if i wanted to run after easy subjects then why would i prefer to be a doc when i could very easily choose any other field .

 

 

you must not underestimate any one's so called WILL just my misunderstanding something ... If i did not have the will , I would not have found this site and asked people to help me ...rather i would sit relaxed and wait for time to decide my fate ....

 

 

i hope this will make you change your mind

[Guest shoopshoop]

i would rather want to take the subjects which may help me complete my undergraduate studies as soon as possible

 

ALL degrees should take about the same time- engineering or nursing or interior design...

 

Also, having the "will" will not guarantee you a spot in medicine, so I advise you to pick to study a degree that interests YOU, like everyone says. Don't have TOO much confidence that you will make it into med school just because you were really great in highschool and held positions e.g. student union. As many have advised me, university is really different and you need to have just enough confidence to keep going for your dream, but also not entirely ruling out a "back up plan" in case (God forbid) you don't get into any medical schools.

 

My couple cents...

[Guest arjuna83]

Hi,

 

Looks like you blew a fuse over there! I don't think nobody on this board meant to insult or demean you in anyway when they said you shouldn't pick easy courses in university...they were merely trying to stress the fact that you should enjoy your undergraduate experience.

 

I really admire your will to be a doctor. But you also sound like someone who doesn't have too much exposure to fields outside medicine. The fact that 3 family members are doctors can bring about an implicit pressure to pursue that field. Now don't get me wrong, that might no be the case for you. But keep in mind that admission to medical school in Canada is an extremely long and difficult process. It's also random, as there are so many qualified and deserving candidates for a few number of spots.

 

If you intend to study medicine in Canada, you need to keep your mind open, and explore other options as well. This is one why medical schools allow us to take a wide variety of courses. Pre-med students here also participate in a wide variety of community work and extra-curricular activities in order to further explore their options and find out if they really want to be a doctor.

 

Just what I think...

[Guest aneliz]

Hey,

 

I don't know where you got the $4500 Cdn number...maybe in another province...but not in Ontario.... Most undergrads are paying at least $2600 per semester (and there are 2 semesters in a year). There is no way that you will pay less than a Canadian student even if you do have a sponsor.

 

Medical school tuition will also not be reduced any time soon... so be prepared to pay at least $10 000 Cdn per year for medical school.

 

There are some scholarships based on secondary school grades...but none that I am aware of that are based on either the TOEFL or the MCAT. Doing well on these exams is good but it doesn't translate into $$.

 

Also, keep in mind that you will have to buy books and pay living expenses in addition to your tuition. Residence fees and food at university campuses are generally MORE than tuition. So, the average student living on campus pays a total of ~$6000 per semester ($12 000 per year) for tuition, food and accomodation and then has to buy books, etc on top of that.

[Guest Jazz]

someone who is confused,

 

Sorry if I am going off topic, but may I ask why you want to pursue your medical education outside of your home country? Applying as a foreigner to Canada is probably one of the most difficult, longest and expensive routes to take. Since you mentioned the MBBS degree, I am assuming where you are from, you can go straight into med school from high school. Are in Hong Kong by any chance?

[Guest cutieyellow]

As Arjuna mentionned, all undergrad studies take the same amount of time, and therefore, i don't see how you can say that you want to take subjects that are completed 'faster'. I can see how your main aim is to be a doctor, however, undergrad is a great time and you should make sure that you enjoy what you do. As everyone else here has said, you must choose a program that suits you, and that interests you enough in order to get high grades.

 

Again, seeing how you're subjected to a primarily medical family, i can see how the pressure is on for you to pursue the same route. However, as mentionned previously by others, you must be careful that it is truly the path that you want.

 

And i don't necessarily doubt your will to pursue it, nor do i dismiss your active search for information, i am just thinking that you are too much of a one-track mind, and that you're willing to sacrifice the fun of undergrad for something considered 'easy' and that you might not like.

 

And i agree with Jazz, why search for Medical school in Canada if it would probably be a lot easier for you to enter medical school in your home country ?

 

Don't be upset at what's written on these boards, most of us are only trying to help, and perhaps sometimes bring up questions that you yourself have yet to ponder.

 

CY

[Guest someone who is confused]

I knew that you may think that i wanna be a doctor coz i am forced to choose that field while that is not at all the case since my bro is an engineer so no one has ever ever forced me to choose the med field as i said i am totally inetested in it coz it is a great field in my opinion .....

 

Thanx for all your help and there is no doubt that the amount of information you give really works .. now y i want to apply to canada .. i am not living in my country also i am in some other country which does not offer post graduate or undergratuate studies to foreigners .. my choice is not only only limited to canada but i am also searching for American and European countries side by side so even if i want to pursue my further studies in my country then also i shall have to do the whole searching and stuff .. i have also kept my country in my mind and hope that in case (GOD FORBID) i do not get any admission abroad then i will very happily go to my country and i am not from hong kong by any chance ...

 

 

Now in clear words please tell me the TOTAL amount of money i will have to give to pursue my studies abroad and What are the TOTAL no of means to get reduction in financial requirements

 

 

It will be great if you could give me websites and links to canadian and american medical universities since i have to take my SAT soon and am left with little time ..

 

Thankx again

[Guest marbledust]

If you want links to Canadian universities, the easiest thing to do is to run a Google search and you will find them. As for costs, the best thing to do is to look up each university you are interested in. Most Canadian universities have their calenders on-line which will provide you with current information on admission requirements, tutition fees, programs offered, and information about applying as a foreign student.

 

You have been given a lot of good and useful information in this thread. However, nobody here can answer your questions with regard to specific universities and costs because each school is different. Now that you have some ideas and starting points, try to do your own research. You can also contact the universities themselves with questions you might have by email, writing, or phone - all the addresses will be on their websites.

[Guest aneliz]

I agree, each school has information for international students about fees, scholarships, admissions requirements etc.

 

An example is here:

 

www.uoguelph.ca/liaison/i...onal.shtml

 

or here:

 

www.queensu.ca/quic/intlstu/arrival/

 

All you need to do is search for the schools using google.

 

Each school has different policies and different fees. So there is no real answer to the question that you are asking. You are going to have to narrow it down to a few schools and then find out the information that you want directly from that school. Remember, none of us have ever applied to any of these schools as an international student and are not familiar with the regulations and fees that will apply to you.

 

I would guess, based on the quick look I had at the two websites above, that you will need AT LEAST $18,000 per year of undergrad to pay for tuition, fees, health insurance, residence, meals, books, etc. There will be limited financial aid available to you as an international student - max. $6000 from what I saw.

 

Medical schools in Canada generally DO NOT take international students. I am aware of only two that do: McMaster (Hamilton, ON) and McGill (Montreal). Your chances of getting in are slim at best...both take VERY FEW international students each year. Medical school costs are high - $30 000 total for a Canadian student per year. There are no scholarships or bursaries that will cover much of that. International med students will likely pay another $10,000 in tuition on top of the Canadian figure - my guess of total med school cost for a year for an international students would be $50,000 per year.

 

The only way that you will be eligible to pay lower (ie Canadian student) tuition fees rather than international fees is if you are a CANADIAN CITIZEN or LANDED IMMIGRANT. International students here on student visas, regardless of whether they have a sponsor or not, pay international student fees.

 

You will have to look up American schools on your own. There are hundreds of them...and none of us attend, or have even applied to American schools. We are not familiar with fees or procedures at those schools at all.

 

Good luck!

[Guest someone who is confused]

Hi all ..this is probably my last reply to this thread ... I have got a lot of information from all of you and now its my job to search for the universities and stuff... I just wanna thank you all... I may start a new thread sometime later when the need arises .... So. THANKX ALL OF YOU and pray for my success

 

Take care!

[Guest someone who is confused]

hi and i am back with a question .. actually i am studying for my HSSC in my country that is Higher Secondary School Certificate ..It makes two years of college and i am studying the premedical subjects that is biology,physics,chemistry,english and two more.. Do i still need to complete any other undergraduate course in canada before applying to a medical school in canada and secondly do University of Calgary offers the undergraduate courses which are required before applying for the MD programme

 

 

I hope that you will help me.. looking forward to your reply

[Guest marbledust]

Unfortunately, this best advice is that you will need to contact each school individually regarding how classes from overseas will be accepted for credit. Because every university has different policies and regulations, I don't think anybody here can give you an answer as to what you may or may not recieve credit for. Its always been to go straight to the source - the universities that you are interested in.

 

As for the Calgary question, yes all the typical pre-med courses are offered. Again you would have to contact the university to find out any specific information relating to you. Calgary does accept foreign students to undergrad programs. However, as far as I know, Calgary does not accept foreign medical students for admission to the medical program. To my knowledge, foreign students have only gone through the medical program under special agreements where the government of their home country has paid the considerable cost of their entire training.