Engineering as a stepping stone?

[Guest archchivalry]

Hi,

 

I found from this website that even though

going through engineering is a tough route,

I can understand that it is a good way.

Because, it provides good back-up plan as well.

 

Quesion: Anyone knows any engineering program

that is very related to life sciences that I can

get the prerequisites for med school and get good GPA?

(over 80%)

 

I researched a bit, and UT offers biomedical engineering,

however, even the officer admit that few people actually

go to medical school after that because it is

a hard program.

[Guest mintchoco]

If you do Biomedical Engineering at U of T, then you will have to do it through Engineering Science Program.

 

I *DO NOT* recommend it. It's very difficult to maintain a good GPA first of all in engineering. And of all programs, EngSci is super theoretical and super-competitive. Its not worth the stress. Frankly you'll not have the free time to pursue many extra-curriculars to *build up* your application.

 

Don't do it!

[Guest archchivalry]

Thanks for the advice, mintchoco.

 

Just wondering,

does any of you know about

Guelph's biological engineering?

 

It sounds interesting as it provides me to

choose life science courses and get

engineering degree.

The only problem is that whether I can get

good GPA easily or not..

[Guest UofT Student OT7]

a

[Guest thesaug]

Hi archchivalry,

 

I just graduated from Chemical Engineering at Western, so I thought i'd throw in my own 2 cents here.

 

As mentioned by many ppl in other posts on this topic, Engineering is a very challenging program. That being the case, regardless of what discipline you choose and the school in which you enroll at, achieveing that GPA needed to be competitive for medschools will always be a tough task.

 

I think it also depends on the type of person you are and how you learn. There were students in my class who did so well by just coming to class, and paying attention to lecture. Other students (such as myself) had to attend lecture, do the assignments over and over again, go to the tutorial sessions and see the prof during office hours to understand the concepts. So if you are like me, then you will have to be willing to put in a lot of hours.

 

I dont know how it works at the other schools, but at Western, and particularly in Chem Eng, you could get all the questions correct on the exam, but still not get all the marks, due to the design procedure followed, the formulas used or organization of the actual solution. It can be very frustrating.

 

Engineering profs in my program are particularly notorious for giving exams that are virtually impossible to solve (except by a few geniuses in the class). What happens then is that everyone goes through the cycle of feeling like @#%$, and then getting a grade according to a bell curve so the prof can achieve his desired class average. Depending on the course, this was good and bad for me.

 

So can you get the needed GPA? Yes...but you'll have to work. Choose the program and school which you think will benefit you the most, or the one which you are interested in. Engineering is a lot of work, so having that interest level in what you are doing is very important...otherwise it may feel like hell!

 

Good luck!

 

thesaug

 

P.S. I hope I made some sense up there...sorry...its late...so tired...|I

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hey there thesaug,

 

Congratulations on your graduation! I've no idea how you pulled this last year off with that crazy interview/travel schedule of yours--well done! I'm sure meds will seem like a relative breeze after all this.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest MDHopeful04]

Hi archchivalry,

 

I thought I'd join in the discussion.

 

I graduated from Systems Design Engineering (SYDE) at the University of Waterloo in 2003. I also did a specialization in Water Resources.

 

Generally speaking, it's challenging to maintain good grades in Engineering. Hard work alone won't earn you the marks. I know a number of people who worked really hard, day and night, and sometimes barely managed to pass, while others played day and night and aced exams. Class averages ranged between 70-80% but had large standard deviations.

 

The experience with Engineering I had was that it didn't really matter how much you studied - if you didn't understand the material, you couldn't get the marks you needed on exams.

 

Marks are quite difficult to earn. We did not have multiple choice exams, so guessing answers was not an option. Writing "BS" doesn't get you marks either. When tackling problems, you must know what you're doing. If you don't, TA's can see that. I remember once writing over 1 page of a solution and got 1 "pity" mark. The question was out of 15 marks and there were only 3 questions on the exam. That exam was worth 40% of the final grade.

 

That's another thing - the exams I've written in Engineering consist of only a few questions (large, elaborate problems) worth many marks. Also, we generally had only a midterm (worth 30-40%) and a final (worth 60-70%). So if you mess up on one, it's difficult to get high marks.

 

Furthermore, at UW, particularly in SYDE, professors only go through typical examples of questions during the lectures but then on the exams, ask questions that require a strong understanding of the concepts. The most important thing was being able to apply your knowledge to various situations. And another thing - just because you read the textbooks/notes over and over, it does not guarantee you will finally understand.

 

You asked about a program that allows you to take medical pre-requisites. In Engineering, b/c the schedule is so tight, planning is everything.

 

From my impression, it would appear that SYDE gives quite a bit of flexibility. Since it is an inter-disciplinary program with options ranging from Ergonomics to Robotics, it allows students to pursue their areas of interest.

 

Because I did the Water Resources option, I managed to take a full credit (+ lab) in Microbiology. Also, we have 2 Statistics courses (full credit in Social Sciences). And b/c SYDE offers a biomedical option, I took a full credit in Human Physiology as an elective. To partially meet Engineering requirements, I also took a full credit in Anthropology (Social Sciences). During one of my CO-OP terms I took a full credit + lab of Organic Chemistry at York University and did research at a Hospital. I also managed to squeeze in research experience during one of my terms.

 

Despite all the hard work and planning, I truly feel that Engineering prepares students really well for a career in medicine. In SYDE, we had many project courses where we worked in teams and used a variation of problem-based learning. The skills developed are all important for medicine.

 

Just like any other profession/career, you have to ensure that you truly enjoy Engineering. B/c it's a challenging field, if you have little interest in it, it will be very frustrating for you and will make it even more challenging to earn the marks you need for medicine.

 

Hope this helps!

[Guest Adamanda]

I am a guelph bio-engg grad. The program is great, if you do the biomed stream there is a big focus on prosthetics, orthotics, biomechanics and implant design.

 

I found first year engineering very tough...and pretty dry, you do hard core engineering courses with all the other streams. My GPA sucked first year but I also did not study or attend any tutorials etc that would have helped.

 

When I started to do more of the bio-engg courses and electives my GPA went up considerably, my last 2 years were close to 4.0

 

So it is possible to do well at Guelph.

 

An added bonus about guelph bio-engg is the relatively small class size, my year was ~25. The bio engg profs learn your name and are very approachable.

[Guest thesaug]

Thanks Kirsteen! It was tough but its finally over!

[Guest FrenchyMed]

I graduated from Ottawa U with a degree in Chem Eng and then went on to Mac to complete my M.Eng where I focused on Biomaterials.

 

I found the first 2 year of undergrad pretty brutal. At the time, I was enrolled in Ottawa's combined Biochem/Chem Eng. program. I completed all the science requirements for Med school (and more). I eventually dropped the Biochem side of the program. I found that doing all the science and engineering courses was too much - I was taking on average 6 or 7 different courses per semester. A friend of mine did complete the program and went on to Med school, but she took and extra year to complete her degrees to ensure she got decent marks.

 

I say go into Engineering if you have an interest in it. I preferred the application aspect of engineering to the theoretical side of basic sciences. Unfortunately, engineering programs usually include plenty of math :x but it is possible to get through it.

 

Believe me, it's much easier to study and get good marks in a subject you have an interest in!

 

Good Luck!

[Guest ploughboy]

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Hey,

 

Waterloo EE '96 here. Don't know much about bio-related programmes, but I fully agree with the other comments -- ain't no such thing as an easy engineering programme in Canada. The programs are all tough. The cliche is that in your first engineering class you look at the guy on your left and the guy on your right - one of you won't graduate. Although my department officially claims a degree completion rate of ~80-90%, about a third of the people in my first-year class didn't graduate with us, so there's some truth to the cliche. There is a culture of beating the snot out of the students, then belling the course. It's not uncommon to sit for a three-hour final exam consisting of only two or three big and somewhat vague questions, yet counting for 70% of your final grade.

 

My reply in the other thread might have sounded more encouraging than this message, 'cuz I wrote about the benefits of an eng'g degree vis-a-vis a science degree. I stand behind what I wrote, but in terms of doing eng'g *strictly* as a pre-med degree, I'm not convinced it's the best course. I guess the question is: does having a really good back-up plan compensate for the increased likelyhood of using that backup plan?

 

Looking back, it's something I've questioned about my own path (although for me, the decision to apply to meds came after I got my eng'g degree, so it's not exactly the same situation you face). When I started reading this website and comparing my undergrad marks to those of people accepted to meds I honestly wondered if I was stupid. I don't want to sound egotistical here, but I just completed an over-loaded undergrad year filled with science, psyche and history courses. My *average* last year was higher than my best-ever mark in an engineering course! Crazy, eh? Some of that can be put down to motivation, and improved study skills coming with advanced age, but some of it is because other faculties (at least at UW) don't seem to be as reluctant to hand out high marks.

 

Strictly as a pre-med programme, studying engineering definitely hurt me. On the other hand, in terms of making me what I am today (for better or worse), I have absolutely no regrets about studying engineering.

 

I guess this whole post can be summed up as "geez, I dunno". Not much help, sorry.

 

pb

 

 

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[Guest CH146]

I agree with ploughboy. I graduated in '96 with Chem and Materials Eng... Not the best route if you know medicine is what you want. I didn't figure that out until later and my GPA, while slightly above average for my class, was pitifull compared to some on this board.

 

Engineering is interesting and fun, but you have to want it, and I don't think I'd have lasted too long knowing it was only my backup.

[Guest archchivalry]

Thanks for many advices

 

I guess my conclusion is that

I should do engineering if I like it.

It would not be too late to change my career

as an engineer after I get into science program right?

 

I think I should just take science program and

find out what I really like.

 

Thanks

[Guest malsa]

Hey archrivalry,

 

I really doubt you'd be able to switch into an engineering program from a science program. If you did want to get into an engineering program after doing a year of general science, you would need to reapply into the program and have to meet all the high school mark cutoffs and high school prereqs. They might look at your post secondary marks as well. Because engineering is a set program with basically all your courses planned out for you as set engineering courses, any courses you took as a science student would not be counted towards your engineering degree -ie, you'd be starting from scratch as an engineering student and you would lose a year.

 

The converse is possible though. You can probably switch down from engineering into an arts or science program and get credit for your engineering courses.

[Guest mintchoco]

I'll elaborate on my earlier reply regarding the EngSci and engineering in general.

 

I just finished EngSci at U of T (Computer Option).

 

Basically, as everyone has mentioned above, engineering is a very challenging program. Engineering Science at U of T especially, since I think this program has the highest cut-off of all undergrad programs coming out of highschool. So even with the bell-curve, the competition is still very stiff. Achieving the GPA necessary for med school is pretty tough through an engineering program, simply because of the lack of flexibility. If you were enrolled in a general life-sciences degree, you would have much more room to pick and choose courses. In engineering, you're not allowed electives until 4th year for the most part. So if you suck at electronic circuits for example, you're stuck taking it up until the end of 3rd year, and doing badly in those courses could effect your GPA substaintially. Just think of yoru counterparts who are taking fluff courses like BasketWeaving 101. :-P

 

I think if you go into an engineering program, be prepared to spend your summer attaining the bio and orgo pre-reqs for medical school. Depending on the program you choose, it may or may not offer you the choice of taking these courses as part of your regular program.

 

In terms of what everyone said about "interest"...well I thought I was interested in maths and physics coming out of highschool, hence engineering was the natural choice. Unfortunately, I did not find this was the case once enrolled. Basically, I really *HATED* doing math and looking at equations 24-7, and to me, engineering was a pretty anti-social discipline.

 

Despite all the negatives I've mentioned above, engineering did provide me the opportunity for various work experiences - biomedical research with a prof, startup, even SiliconValley for a year...but having gone through everything, engineering really isn't for me!

 

Good luck!

[Guest MDHopeful04]

Hey, for all those engineers out there... if we do get into medicine, no more linear signals and systems for us (or differential equations)! What a dream come true!

[Guest klukyboy]

I never used any of that as an engineer! :lol

[Guest dayne67]

I am in electrical engineering. I took a year off my program, so I could take the pre-requisite courses that are needed for various med-schools. I am going back to finish the fourth and final year of my program to get my degree. This August/ September, I am also going to apply to various med schools in Ontario.

 

All I can say about engineering is that one shouldn't go into engineering with the intention of just using it as their undergraduate degree towards medical school. Engineering is a very rigurous program. Of course, it's definitely alright if an engineering student decides to pursue other areas of academia during or after finishing their degree.

 

I wouldn't recommend going into engineering just to use it as a precursor for medicine. One should have an interest in physics/chemistry/calculus/programming and in engineering concepts and design. The most fundamental concept of engineering is "design". Design is heavily stressed in fourth year (ie. labs, thesis). If one has interest in these areas, then they should pursue engineering. Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend it.

 

I remember that I had on average 28-30 hours of lectures/lab/tutorials per week for my first three years. In my third year of engineering, we had to spend approximately an extra 15 hours on just finishing up our labs. Of course, all this time doesn't factor the time that is needed for homework and studying for mid-terms, quizzes, and exams. When there is this much work involved and if one doesn't like any of the courses, then, it can be very hard to get through the program.

 

It is very hard to maintain a high GPA in any engineering program. It is possible, but requires constant hard work, focus, and a knack for being an intricate and efficient problem solver.

[Guest khoberian]

"All I can say about engineering is that one shouldn't go into engineering with the intention of just using it as their undergraduate degree towards medical school. Engineering is a very rigurous program. Of course, it's definitely alright if an engineering student decides to pursue other areas of academia during or after finishing their degree.

 

I wouldn't recommend going into engineering just to use it as a precursor for medicine. One should have an interest in physics/chemistry/calculus/programming and in engineering concepts and design. The most fundamental concept of engineering is "design". Design is heavily stressed in fourth year (ie. labs, thesis). If one has interest in these areas, then they should pursue engineering. Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend it.

 

I remember that I had on average 28-30 hours of lectures/lab/tutorials per week for my first three years. In my third year of engineering, we had to spend approximately an extra 15 hours on just finishing up our labs. Of course, all this time doesn't factor the time that is needed for homework and studying for mid-terms, quizzes, and exams. When there is this much work involved and if one doesn't like any of the courses, then, it can be very hard to get through the program.

 

It is very hard to maintain a high GPA in any engineering program."

 

I completely agree with dayne's response. I'm a computer engineer myself graduating next April/May. I started in engineering with the aim of getting into med school. And I failed miserably which of course doesn't mean that you will too but just to give you a taste of things...

 

the main thing I hated about engineering was not the theory or exams but the labs. As dayne said, engineering labs are design and problem solving. It's not like a bio or a chem lab where all the steps are nicely outlined for you and all you do is explain what you observed as you carry out the various step. in engineering, labs are what cause most people's marks to drop not because they're marked hard but because they take a LONG time to do - time that you can spend studying for the exam or the lectures. we've had labs and projects that were so bad that people wouldn't show up to the lectures of the course for which we were doing the lab. And the prof knew and expected the poor attendance, which btw sounded absolutely retarded to me.

 

My conclusions as I approach the end of eng'g are that if you come to engineering with the plan of actually doing med, you will not be able to conjure up the interest needed to get med school marks. And if you're actually interested enough in engineering to get good marks, you prolly will not be thinking of med school anyway. also getting all the med prereqs while in engineering is a @#%$. I've taken 6 and more courses for 5 semesters now to get everything in. believe me it's painful. sorry for sounding pessimistic but I'm just trying to give a realistics POV.

 

I just thank God that I didn't actually go into EngSci. Now that would've been even worse.

[Guest mintchoco]

Khoberian,

 

I think your second last paragraph is very true. I ended up doing *okay*...but that was only out of fear of NOT doing well. Heck.

 

There were at least 10-15 people that I counted in my EngSci class in first year who had the intention of going into medicine after (we all got suckered into the program's by the Biomedical option possiblity) - there were prolly others who I just don't talk to. Anyhow, of all those people, I think only like <5 stayed in EngSci (one guy got in, since he had the marks), and most of the others left for "easier" engineering programs and some went back to life-sci.