Military Option?

[paulos]

I know some folks who signed up for the military training program, does anyone have any experiences or opinions about this option?

[NLengr]

Here is the website from DND to give you some background.

 

http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=55&bhcp=1

 

Here's a good leaflet from DND:

 

http://64.254.158.112/pdf/PhysicianOpportunities_en.pdf

 

The most important thing to know, in my opinion, is that if you enlist in the MOTP (medical officer training plan) you MUST commit to doing a family medicine residency. You then have to serve 3-4 years in the forces as a family physician.

 

If you want to pursue other residencies, there is a list of 6 allowable ones (gen surg, ortho, rad, psych, anesthesiology and internal medicine). You can only apply to these AFTER you have completed your 3-4 years as a family physician. You also have to commit to another 5 year period of service after residency training. However, you'll spend most of you time in a civilian facility when not deployed, in order to ensure you have enough work to stay current.

 

The forced family medicine, in my opinion, can be a hard sell to potential recruits.

[magicmazzie]

I did research it....was really thinking of doing that down the line....then chickened out.

[JewelLeigh]

To me, unless you are 100% sure that you want to do family medicine (hard to say at least until you've completed clerkship) and if you are 100% ok with being sent anywhere in Canada for 4 years (and likely internationally to war zones for a portion of that) then I think it is a decision best made much later on.

 

My opinion is that the signing bonuses are fantastic, so I'd rather wait until I am done residency and evaluate at that time if 4 years in the military is for me. IF the 4-year commitment falls in line with where I see my life heading at that point, I would sign up, and get as a lump sum almost the same amount of money I would've made all the way along if I had decided during med school. Even if I lose some money in the process, the deal is still fantastic financially (imo), and the ability to make the decision that much later is worth the small loss of money to me.

 

As it is, I think I'll start having kids in residency. I really can't imagine then starting with the military and being sent to Afghanistan for 6 months when I have a couple of really little ones at home. Doesn't seem worth the money to me. Even for those who aren't married in med school....8 years down the road is really hard to predict, especially at the age most people are when in med school.

 

Additionally, as a civilian family doctor, a good portion of one's practice includes children and the elderly - both of which are missing in the military. In the military, they promise a good amount of CME, but I would be worried about losing that knowledge and those skills over 4 years.

 

Finally, don't forget that a lot of communities are now offering signing bonuses or tuition rebates for family doctors. While the military deal is by far and away the best one I have seen financially-speaking, it's important to remember that it is not the only deal out there for family docs.

 

Anyway, I guess I just would exercise extreme caution when in the financially precarious situation that most people are when in med school. As a doc in Canada, you'll make good money in the end, so consider the other repercussions of joining the military before going for their financially-fantastic but potentially life and career-altering deal.

[JewelLeigh]

If you want to pursue other residencies, there is a list of 6 allowable ones (gen surg, ortho, rad, psych, anesthesiology and internal medicine). You can only apply to these AFTER you have completed your 3-4 years as a family physician. You also have to commit to another 5 year period of service after residency training. However, you'll spend most of you time in a civilian facility when not deployed, in order to ensure you have enough work to stay current.

 

The forced family medicine, in my opinion, can be a hard sell to potential recruits.

It should also be noted that if you wish to persue one of the other allowable specialties and not be required to do family med first, the military also makes deals with civilian residents who already matched to one of these specialties through CaRMS. In this situation, once you have matched as a non-military person through CaRMS, you can join the military and they will offer amazing financial incentives including signing bonuses at this point. If you are dead-set on one of these other specialties, but would also like the early financial benefits of the military, this may be a better option than signing up for the military in med school and being forced to do family med first. This option is also detailed on the site given by NL above.

[Jochi1543]

I gotta add that while I've personally also thought about this route and also decided it wasn't for me, I've been able to speak to people who did it (albeit in the US military where there isn't a residency limitation this strict) and had some great experiences. For example, the medical examiner I spoke to got his start in forensic medicine while uncovering mass graves in Kosovo during his service with the US Air Force. So the benefits are not just financial.

[Alastriss]

To me, unless you are 100% sure that you want to do family medicine (hard to say at least until you've completed clerkship) and if you are 100% ok with being sent anywhere in Canada for 4 years (and likely internationally to war zones for a portion of that) then I think it is a decision best made much later on.

 

My opinion is that the signing bonuses are fantastic, so I'd rather wait until I am done residency and evaluate at that time if 4 years in the military is for me. IF the 4-year commitment falls in line with where I see my life heading at that point, I would sign up, and get as a lump sum almost the same amount of money I would've made all the way along if I had decided during med school. Even if I lose some money in the process, the deal is still fantastic financially (imo), and the ability to make the decision that much later is worth the small loss of money to me.

 

As it is, I think I'll start having kids in residency. I really can't imagine then starting with the military and being sent to Afghanistan for 6 months when I have a couple of really little ones at home. Doesn't seem worth the money to me. Even for those who aren't married in med school....8 years down the road is really hard to predict, especially at the age most people are when in med school.

 

Additionally, as a civilian family doctor, a good portion of one's practice includes children and the elderly - both of which are missing in the military. In the military, they promise a good amount of CME, but I would be worried about losing that knowledge and those skills over 4 years.

 

Finally, don't forget that a lot of communities are now offering signing bonuses or tuition rebates for family doctors. While the military deal is by far and away the best one I have seen financially-speaking, it's important to remember that it is not the only deal out there for family docs.

 

Anyway, I guess I just would exercise extreme caution when in the financially precarious situation that most people are when in med school. As a doc in Canada, you'll make good money in the end, so consider the other repercussions of joining the military before going for their financially-fantastic but potentially life and career-altering deal.

 

 

There are some things and myths that I will clarify

First of all, if you are going to do medicine through the military whether you choose direct entry or MOTP you will not necessarily be sent to war. That is not true, I have a lot of friends who are at RMC and I can assure you that going overseas is a voluntary thing cuz canada isn't actively at war, furthermore you will be trained to be an Officer (pretty high in rank, also think that if you do your specialization you will have to be promoted pretty high, not sure but maybe Major, step down from colonel) What you will end up doing is serving in a military hospital but you might be moved around.

 

The big thing is that military medicine is much different than civilian medicine, especially fi you want to go overseas. In the military, its moreso about keeping numbers up, so quickfixes and bandaids (both figuratively and literally) are what you will be doing. Its not necessarily in the best interest of the patient, and some people might not be ok with that. I can get more info for you if you want..PM me

[HaliEngineer]

I'd have to disagree with your last statement, A. (Re: Bandaids and quick fixes) - Most of the CF's physicians, and most of the CF's members, are on Canadian soil every day. When they sign up for the CF, they give up their access to provincial health care, and are now looked after by the CF's health services.

That means that everything - from birth control to diabetes control to heart disease - is looked after by CF Physicians. I think that the idea that CF Physicians are in the business of "keeping numbers up" is a bit outdated - Any physician is trying to maintain the health of their patients, and if they're able to return to work, a responsible physician wouldn't write them a note giving them time off work. (And the opposite holds true)

Maybe I'm idealistic, but I think that CF physicians do a job that is very similar to civilian physicians on most days - and on deployment, they do a more up-tempo version of the same work.

[NLengr]

There are some things and myths that I will clarify

First of all, if you are going to do medicine through the military whether you choose direct entry or MOTP you will not necessarily be sent to war. That is not true, I have a lot of friends who are at RMC and I can assure you that going overseas is a voluntary thing cuz canada isn't actively at war

 

Going overseas is not voluntary for regular force members. If the military says you are being deployed, you are going to be deployed (unless you have a damned good excuse). As a full time member, you go where you are deployed/stationed. If you join as a full time member, expect to spend at least some time overseas. Overseas deployment is voluntary for reserve force members (perhaps this is what you were thinking of).

 

Second, while we are not officially at war (from a legal standpoint), we are for all intents and purposes engaging in a low-medium asymmetrical conflict. Like most Western countries for the past 50 years, we don't officially declare war anymore (see police action + US in Vietnam). The military has already stated they expect most of the officer core to rotate through Afghanistan.

 

furthermore you will be trained to be an Officer (pretty high in rank, also think that if you do your specialization you will have to be promoted pretty high, not sure but maybe Major, step down from colonel) What you will end up doing is serving in a military hospital but you might be moved around.

 

Your rank depends on your level of training. Medical Students are 2nd Lt., Family Med. residents are Lt., Family physicians start as Captian, and specialists start as Major.

 

Major however, is one step down from Lt. Colonel, which is itself a step down from Colonel.

 

Also, with regards to work, when not deployed military family physicians spend 20% of their time in civilian hospitals/facilities. Military specialists spend 100% of their time in civilian hospitals/facilities. This is done to maintain and enhance skills. Once you are posted to a location, it is unlikely you will be reposted within 4 years. Military physicians are not focused on quick fixes and band aid solutions. They participate in a wide variety of health care, in both the civilian and military sectors.

[Kuantum]

As a medical specialist, can you ever make it to the General ranks? If so, would you probably have to take on strictly non-medical duties?

[NLengr]

As a medical specialist, can you ever make it to the General ranks? If so, would you probably have to take on strictly non-medical duties?

 

You could head up the Canadian Forces Medical Services. I can't imagine getting promoted higher then that though. You aren't really trained in things like combined combat operations, logistics, comms etc. You are pretty much a medical specialist and that's that.

[Alastriss]

I'd have to disagree with your last statement, A. (Re: Bandaids and quick fixes) - Most of the CF's physicians, and most of the CF's members, are on Canadian soil every day. When they sign up for the CF, they give up their access to provincial health care, and are now looked after by the CF's health services.

That means that everything - from birth control to diabetes control to heart disease - is looked after by CF Physicians. I think that the idea that CF Physicians are in the business of "keeping numbers up" is a bit outdated - Any physician is trying to maintain the health of their patients, and if they're able to return to work, a responsible physician wouldn't write them a note giving them time off work. (And the opposite holds true)

Maybe I'm idealistic, but I think that CF physicians do a job that is very similar to civilian physicians on most days - and on deployment, they do a more up-tempo version of the same work.

 

 

I feel like I should clarify this; I meant the bandaid and quickfixes is military medicine on the field; I have heard this from many MOs and Med techs, they are otherwise very similar to civilian doctors, just working in military bases for the most part

[Alastriss]

Going overseas is not voluntary for regular force members. If the military says you are being deployed, you are going to be deployed (unless you have a damned good excuse). As a full time member, you go where you are deployed/stationed. If you join as a full time member, expect to spend at least some time overseas. Overseas deployment is voluntary for reserve force members (perhaps this is what you were thinking of).

 

Second, while we are not officially at war (from a legal standpoint), we are for all intents and purposes engaging in a low-medium asymmetrical conflict. Like most Western countries for the past 50 years, we don't officially declare war anymore (see police action + US in Vietnam). The military has already stated they expect most of the officer core to rotate through Afghanistan.

 

 

 

Your rank depends on your level of training. Medical Students are 2nd Lt., Family Med. residents are Lt., Family physicians start as Captian, and specialists start as Major.

 

Major however, is one step down from Lt. Colonel, which is itself a step down from Colonel.

 

Also, with regards to work, when not deployed military family physicians spend 20% of their time in civilian hospitals/facilities. Military specialists spend 100% of their time in civilian hospitals/facilities. This is done to maintain and enhance skills. Once you are posted to a location, it is unlikely you will be reposted within 4 years. Military physicians are not focused on quick fixes and band aid solutions. They participate in a wide variety of health care, in both the civilian and military sectors.

 

My bad NLengr, I screwed up the ranks! I knew it was pretty up there

I talked to a lot of officers, and they all said that going overseas to afghanistan is something you want to do more than you being sent there against your will; mind you a lot of medics voluntarily go there because it appeals to them. but i was told that you don't choose where you are deployed, ie if you DOTP then you can end up working on a naval ship out in van or as an officer you can be deployed at various bases including petawawa.

[NLengr]

My bad NLengr, I screwed up the ranks! I knew it was pretty up there

I talked to a lot of officers, and they all said that going overseas to afghanistan is something you want to do more than you being sent there against your will; mind you a lot of medics voluntarily go there because it appeals to them.

 

Are you sure they didn't mean that they wanted to go when they were deployed, rather then were deployed and going but would rather not go?

 

Either way, we'll probably be out of major combat ops in Afghanistan by the time anyone here is ready to be deployed. The forces do tell you to expect that you will be deployed overseas for 6 months at least once during your 4 year commitment if you are a medical officer.

[Alastriss]

Are you sure they didn't mean that they wanted to go when they were deployed, rather then were deployed and going but would rather not go?

 

Either way, we'll probably be out of major combat ops in Afghanistan by the time anyone here is ready to be deployed. The forces do tell you to expect that you will be deployed overseas for 6 months at least once during your 4 year commitment if you are a medical officer.

 

From what I was told, its not like your forced to go. Furthermore I was told that generally for officers to be sent on such missions they want the best and its rather competitive, I think my friend also mentioned something about them rather not picking you if your not 100% eager.

I will ask him again..but I don't think its a problem for MOs, if you are an MO then its likely that you enjoy that aspect of the work..if you are constantly worried about being deployed to dangerous areas then you are not very likely to join the military anywayz. I have a lot of friends, including some that are MOs and NCM med techs that really really really want to get sent overseas..they make everyone give them the oO.

[JewelLeigh]

From what I was told, its not like your forced to go. Furthermore I was told that generally for officers to be sent on such missions they want the best and its rather competitive, I think my friend also mentioned something about them rather not picking you if your not 100% eager.

I will ask him again..but I don't think its a problem for MOs, if you are an MO then its likely that you enjoy that aspect of the work..if you are constantly worried about being deployed to dangerous areas then you are not very likely to join the military anywayz. I have a lot of friends, including some that are MOs and NCM med techs that really really really want to get sent overseas..they make everyone give them the oO.

Seeing that the military offers ridiculously huge financial incentives to medical students (who are in ridiculous huge amounts of debt), I think it is very likely that some people would be very tempted to join the military even if they hated the idea of being deployed. This is the reason that I brought it up - as a point to consider when being tempted (who wouldn't be) by the financial gain of joining the military as a medical officer med student.

 

As per the Medical Officer Training Program FAQs (http://64.254.158.112/pdf/MOTP_en.pdf or http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=55&bhcp=1):

 

Is it likely that I will be sent outside the country as part of a CF international operation?

It is highly likely that you will be deployed on a six-month tour during your period of obligatory service.

It sounds like your information is either completely incorrect or not applicable to medical officers doing their obligatory service.

 

I have two good friends who are both officers in the Canadian military (now medical, but were not originally) and both were deployed when they did not wish to be. One was deployed twice.

[Alastriss]

Seeing that the military offers ridiculously huge financial incentives to medical students (who are in ridiculous huge amounts of debt), I think it is very likely that some people would be very tempted to join the military even if they hated the idea of being deployed. This is the reason that I brought it up - as a point to consider when being tempted (who wouldn't be) by the financial gain of joining the military as a medical officer med student.

 

As per the Medical Officer Training Program FAQs (http://64.254.158.112/pdf/MOTP_en.pdf or http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=55&bhcp=1):

 

 

It sounds like your information is either completely incorrect or not applicable to medical officers doing their obligatory service.

 

 

I have two good friends who are both officers in the Canadian military (now medical, but were not originally) and both were deployed when they did not wish to be. One was deployed twice.

 

 

My information is directly from officers and OCDts in the military that know the system best, including a few MOs and NCMs involved in military healthcare. I personally knew very little, and by very little i mean nothing, but I am merely echoing what they have said. I was always told that going overseas was not nearly an issue as it was made out to be.

 

As for the FAQs It seems that it contradicts what I have heard, although I have heard this from very reliable sources...Perhaps I will gather more information on this once my friends are done their training in NB and I'll post it up here again!

[Alastriss]

Also Jewel, I just want to point something out

 

From all the OCDts that I know, and from the fewer Officers that I know, they know of no one who applied and made it solely for financial purposes. If you have friends who are Officers, then I don't need to elaborate on how difficult it is to become one if you lack the desire for it.

Their financial benefits and ridiculous, let alone the pension plan. RMC OCDts have everything schoolwise paid for them + generous salary

[ploughboy]

I have a lot of friends who are at RMC and I can assure you that going overseas is a voluntary thing

 

**giggle**

[dr nomis]

This is a topic that has come up before. You can see another thread regarding this discussion at http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280.

 

Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of misinformation in this thread.

 

I have spent significant time researching this option, spoken to recruiters at recruitment events in Vancouver, the recruitment office in Vancouver, and at a conference in Saskatoon. I have spoken to a medical resident in family medicine who was a Canadian Forces soldier in the MOTP. As well, I am a first-degree relative (remember your genetics class? ) to an Officer Cadet (OCdt - not OCDt) who is in his third year at Royal Military College (RMC).

 

OCdts as information sources

 

My information is directly from officers and OCDt in the military that know the system best

 

First of all, OCdts are not Medical Officers (MOs) and therefore are not a good source of information concerning MOs and the Medical Officer Training Program (MOTP). They are simply university students of any undergraduate major. Officer Cadets can give you an indication of what army life is like in general, or provide insight into areas they have experienced (such as "OCdts are mocked by Queen's University students" and "OCdts are hated by Quebec residents"). Beyond that, remember that the Armed Forces is a massive organization and no one person knows the inner workings of it all, let alone somebody in their first few years as a part of it. A green outfit doesn't mean they know everything - especially when it comes to recruiters (but I'll get to that).

 

OCdts vs. MOs / Financial motivation

 

From all the OCDts that I know, and from the fewer Officers that I know, they know of no one who applied and made it solely for financial purposes.

 

Yes, it is very difficult and competitive to become an OCdt/ student at RMC. You are in a sense applying for a $200,000k+ full-ride scholarship to RMC and entrance into that university, an entrance based on academic qualifications, intelligence and medical tests, and overall application; if you get in, you are designated an OCdt. Yes, if you are applying to RMC for the money you will likely either not be admitted or drop out during boot camp.

 

However, things are different between the OCdt program and individuals applying to the MOTP. There are hundreds if not thousands of excess individuals who apply for the OCdt program; though the army is in dire need of MOs. If you are applying to the MOTP, you must be a medical student already; you have a very high chance of being accepted, regardless of your motivations (money or otherwise). Given the financial incentives they offer (and the fact that the military salary for MDs is less than what MDs make outside the military), money would play a large part in anybody's decision to pursue the MOTP.

 

 

OCdt Compensation

 

RMC OCdts have everything schoolwise paid for them + generous salary

 

Should you be applying to RMC for the money and actually get in, then you'd be surprised to find that while RMC OCdts do have their school paid for them, and do receive a salary while they are students, this salary is not "generous" by any means. Especially when you consider the fact that they are required to pay for on-campus residence and a meal plan out of this salary, (No, it doesn't make sense, but it's how it's done), you realize their take-home pay as a student is nothing to get excited about.

 

This should not be confused with the take-home pay for a medical student in the MOTP. These medical students get a signing bonus in the realm of $50,000 with about $45,000/year salary, including tuition / textbooks / student fees paid for.

 

Rank & Getting Shipped Overseas

 

As a medical specialist, can you ever make it to the General ranks? If so, would you probably have to take on strictly non-medical duties?

 

If you are asking these types of questions, the military may not be right for you. The potential to start at a high rank or be promoted to another rank should not be a primary motivation to devoting years of your life to the army.

 

Regarding ranks, NLengr is correct:

 

Your rank depends on your level of training. Medical Students are 2nd Lt., Family Med. residents are Lt., Family physicians start as Captian, and specialists start as Major.

 

However, something else that I learned in a conversation with a Major who is a MO in the Army is that your rank plays a role in how often you get sent overseas. The higher your rank, the less likely you are to be sent. He told me that he put in his name on several occasions to be sent overseas, but has not been approved for an overseas tour of duty in several years. This leads me to the next point:

 

Voluntary Overseas Involvement

 

I have a lot of friends who are at RMC and I can assure you that going overseas is a voluntary thing

 

By this, the only thing that Alastriss could mean is that you can voluntarily submit your name in a request to go overseas. This is correct. However, as discussed in the last point, you will not necessarily be approved to go overseas every time you apply, and if your rank is high, there is a good chance you won't be sent overseas. (Note that "overseas" does not mean "to a combat zone" - Canadian MOs can be sent to serve troops on CF bases in non-combat countries such as UAE.)

 

But be warned: This does NOT mean that you ONLY go overseas if you volunteer. This is the Army, and once you have signed on the dotted line, they own you, and they send you where they see fit. Even if you don't volunteer for an overseas tour of duty, you can (and will likely) still be sent overseas.

 

Assumptions

 

There are some things that you should not assume.

 

Either way, we'll probably be out of major combat ops in Afghanistan by the time anyone here is ready to be deployed.

 

The latest information (from today) indicates that Canada is being pressured to stay in Afghanistan past 2009. However, things can change on a daily basis. Tomorrow, or in a year, or in five years, Canadian forces may be called into another country altogether. Nobody can predict what the global situation will be at any time in the future, or when Canada will be leaving Afghanistan or entering another country.

 

As a result, it is not very bright to speculate if and when Canadian Forces will be involved in other countries, and then make a decision to join the CF based on that speculation.

 

"Quick-Fixes" Medicine

I feel like I should clarify this; I meant the bandaid and quickfixes is military medicine on the field; I have heard this from many MOs and Med techs, they are otherwise very similar to civilian doctors, just working in military bases for the most part

Actually, the individuals on the 'field' are Army Medics and not Medical Officers. Army Medics are just like civilian paramedics; they are on the field on the front lines, taking the wounded to the hospital, and are regarded as just as 'hardcore' as CF soldiers (according to CBC). In fact, Canada has lost two of our Army Medics in Afghanistan, believed to be the first time Canadian Army Medics have been killed in action since the Korean war.

 

Unlike Army Medics, MOs are rarely, if ever, placed on the front lines or 'in the field' as they are considered too valuable to be placed in the line of fire. When overseas, MOs stay in the hospital; in the CF base in Kandahar, this is one of the most secure areas of the base. When in Canada, MOs work in a hospital on a CF base treating troops, though 1 day a week they are in a Civilian hospital to keep up their skills treating non-military conditions.

 

Finally, you should be very careful concerning the sources of your information:

 

Sources - Recruiters

 

Military Recruiters are paid to ensure the number of people in the military rises. For some reason, whether it is they have not seen active service in a while or they are on commission, they are notorious for misinforming recruits. My relative who is an OCdt has told me, "Less than nine minutes into your time in the military, you will realize that everything the recruiter told you was, to some extent, incorrect."

 

Note, however, that "recruiters" are not to be confused with MOs who are at recruiting events. Some of the individuals in uniform at recruiting events are actually physicians and MOs, and so they will know a bit more regarding the actual process.

 

Sources - Online Forum

 

An online forum is good for suggestions, but as a number of posts on here have shown, sometimes people post information just because they've 'heard' it when in reality there is little or no truth to it.

 

Poorly-informed posts like those simply decrease the credibility of this forum and are frustrating for individuals who are looking for accurate information. These posts are especially frustrating when they fictitiously claim to have quality sources.

 

Fortunately, a number of individuals have challenged the false claims on this thread, providing at least a bit of credence.

 

I'll repeat: don't believe everything you read here - verify your information sources. You don't want to be dodging bullets in Afghaniraqisomewhereistan and thinking to yourself, "But the premed101.com forums said...!"

 

Understand the gravity of the situation

 

If you are considering whether or not this might be "fun," you are hyped about getting a salary while you are medical student, or you are hoping to become a decorated, high-ranking army officer, you need to take a step back and seriously consider what you are getting yourself into.

 

I was at a recruiting event where a person asked, "If you sign up for the MOTP, and something comes up, can you get out of it if you pay back the signing bonus?" If you are asking questions like that, you clearly have no idea what you are getting yourself into. Folks, this is the army. THE ARMY. You literally sign your life away, and they OWN you. They send you where they want. You don't know why or when you'll be going, you don't know who decided, you can't 'appeal' or 'get out' of it. It's not like joining a Facebook group, or the Boy Scouts, or getting into Medical school. It's the army.

 

(To answer the question, the army does have things like bereavement leave that you can apply for but are not guaranteed to get; as well, you can sign up as a physician on a day-to-day basis and not give any commitment and that allows you to quit any time, but if you sign up in that manner you will not get any signing bonuses.)

 

In conclusion, joining the military is a very alluring proposition that needs a lot of serious thought. It can be very rewarding for some individuals who chose to get into it. If you think it is for you, keep asking questions and getting information from reputable sources until you are 110% sure of your decision.

[JewelLeigh]

What a great post - thanks Dr. Nomis!

[NLengr]

The latest information (from today) indicates that Canada is being pressured to stay in Afghanistan past 2009. However, things can change on a daily basis. Tomorrow, or in a year, or in five years, Canadian forces may be called into another country altogether. Nobody can predict what the global situation will be at any time in the future, or when Canada will be leaving Afghanistan or entering another country.

 

As a result, it is not very bright to speculate if and when Canadian Forces will be involved in other countries, and then make a decision to join the CF based on that speculation.

 

Just to clear something up. I didn't say we'd be out of Afghanistan, I said we'd be out of major combat operations. Big difference, but likely to happen. We've been bearing the load for far too long in this mission, while some of our NATO allies are dragging their asses and sticking to the safer Northern areas.

 

Given the political reality at home (support for the mission decreasing and likely to continue), the military situation (we only have a small force, and it can't stay in combat forever) and the financial aspects (it costs alot of tax money to fund this mission), Canada will more then likely have to move into at least a less operations intense environment (likely Northern Afghan.) or withdrawal from the mission. I favour rotating up North for a year or two to let us get ourselves rested, but politicians will do whatever they think will get them reelected. If that mean pulling out, then they will pull out as fast as they can get the paperwork done. If we withdrawal, barring another major conflict occurring, we can expect for low levels of deployment while the military recuperates from the Afghan mission.

 

As for NATO pressure, maybe they should be putting more pressure on the Allies who aren't shouldering their burden of the load to come down to Southern Afghanistan and relieve some of the pressure from the Canadian, British and American forces. If people didn't feel like we were doing all the work with no support in a mission where nobody else really cares, then maybe we wouldn't have this political pressure at home to withdrawal.

 

But I agree with you in that people should assume that if they join the military they will be deployed to dangerous situations and factor that into their decision.

[Alastriss]

Dr. Nomis, isn't the Direct entry program require you to be already a medical student? Isn't the MOTP different?

OCDts may not be MOs but they know the system well, and their commanding officers know them much better..

Furthermore, I was definetely not under the impression that they have to pay for their salaries, I thought it was all covered + a big salary..

[NLengr]

The DEO (Direct Entry as an Officer) plan requires you to be licensed to practice medicine in Canada (aka you must already be a doctor). Everyone else goes in under MOTP (Medical Officer Training Plan).

 

Here is the DND site. If you read it, it'll give you a lot of the information you need.

 

http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=55&bhcp=1

[Tapps73]

Anybody seriously considering this option needs to talk directly to a medical officer (Recruiters are useless). It is a great program if it is right for you and they know first hand it's benefits and pitfalls. You can go into any base hospital and most MOs are more than happy to talk with you (You may have to make an appointment, but its worth it).

I have been accepted into the program however I have decided to wait until after my education to make sure Family Medicine and everything else that comes along with the military is right for me.

I have been in the military for four years and love it and can see myself enjoying military medicine but I feel I am making the right choice for me by waiting. I encourage anyone looking at this option to do a lot of research and make an informed decision.