Has anyone figure out if anyone got rejected post interview?

[utwaitlister]

I feel this is beating a dead horse, but it has been a week since we found out our fates with med school and was wondering if anyone has, or heard of someone actually receiving a post interview rejection? I only bring this up because I have to get plans moving for next year.

 

I have been doing some brief reading os posts from other schools and from what I can gather from them is NOM has sent rejections, while Ottawa has the two waitlist system. I do not think Mac, Queen's, Western, or U of T have sent either "bad" waitlist or rejections post interview.

 

FYI: Last year boards indicated that schools started moving people off the waitlist on June 2, 2006 until mid June. I assume this is when most of the waitlist offers have been made. If you do not hear from them by the end of June, I think you probably should be making plans on what to do next year.

[uofthopeful07]

mac did send post-interview rejections.

[utwaitlister]

So getting a running total:

 

Schools who sent rejections: NOM, Mac

 

Schools who have two waitlists: Ottawa

 

Schools we have no idea (based on the information gathered so far): Queen's, TO, and Western

[Stevie Boy]

Last year I found out that Queen's and Western do not have post-interview rejections, probably the same thing this year.

 

First time experience with UofT this year, so unfortunately, can't say, but seeing that there isn't a rejection thread on here, probably means no post-interview rejections either .

 

I know its horrible. I ended up calling Western last year in July and got them to give me an idea of where I was. Turns out I was at the bottom half, which was ridiculous to string me along on for 3 months *sigh*, but what can you do.

 

Heard rumors that Queen's had to call up rejected students a couple years back, and that's why there's the no post-interview rejection policy now. But that is completely heresay, in fact, I can't even remember where I heard that from...

[utwaitlister]

I completely agree with you Stevie Boy. I do not think they sent out rejections, although some people on the board insist that U of T has since that is what they put up on their website.

 

I am going to be operating under the principle that if I do not get a call between the start and mid June, I am going to assume that my chances of getting in this year are slim and will plan accordingly for next year. I think this is probably the best course of action for people on the waitlist at any of those school that seem not to have sent out rejections.

[blinknoodle]

Both UWO and Toronto hand out rejections. I know UWO does, if two interviewers do not find you acceptable for medicine, but I imagine this happens quite rarely. For Toronto, my friend was rejected outright after their interview 3 years ago. Again, likely not a common phenomenon but it does happen, and when it does, you really have to ask yourself why you've been rejected.

[af133]

Last year boards indicated that schools started moving people off the waitlist on June 2, 2006 until mid June.

 

Interesting ... this year the waitlist email made it clear that we should not expect to hear back until the end of June.

 

We do not expect to make any further offers of admission until the end of June. After that time offers will be made as places become available, and this process will continue until our class has been filled.

[utwaitlister]

af133...you are right about what the letter said, however on the U of T website, they said that they will make offers once spots become available.

 

According to their website, it is conceivable that by the start June more offers are going to be sent out,

[xylem29]

I completely agree with you Stevie Boy. I do not think they sent out rejections, although some people on the board insist that U of T has since that is what they put up on their website.

 

I am going to be operating under the principle that if I do not get a call between the start and mid June, I am going to assume that my chances of getting in this year are slim and will plan accordingly for next year. I think this is probably the best course of action for people on the waitlist at any of those school that seem not to have sent out rejections.

 

That's a good plan, exactly what I'm going to do too. If you don't hear from your school during "the movement period", which should be early June to mid June this year b/c the OMSAS deadline is for making your final decisions is June 6 or something. So waiting lists should start moving that week for sure...

[etbr]

Both UWO and Toronto hand out rejections. I know UWO does, if two interviewers do not find you acceptable for medicine, but I imagine this happens quite rarely. For Toronto, my friend was rejected outright after their interview 3 years ago. Again, likely not a common phenomenon but it does happen, and when it does, you really have to ask yourself why you've been rejected.

 

 

well that's 3 years ago. Toronto might have decided NOT to give out any post-interview rejections this year but instead, put everyone on the freaking waitlist. if this is indeed true (and i believe so), then i think it is UNACCEPTABLE for them to tell people they did send out post-interview rejections - bloody lies.

[af133]

Toronto might have decided NOT to give out any post-interview rejections this year but instead, put everyone on the freaking waitlist. if this is indeed true (and i believe so), then i think it is UNACCEPTABLE for them to tell people they did send out post-interview rejections - bloody lies.

 

I do not think that they would lie, especially not by putting it in print. Instead, I believe that a very small minority of applicants were rejected (i.e. <10%). In this way, all the pieces fit; UT is being truthful (some were rejected), and we do not hear these applicants, because they are outnumbered by waitlisters.

 

Think about it, why would UT lie to you about their rejections. I honestly do not think they are overly preoccupied with the possibility of being perceived as unfair or uninformative for putting a large portion of the interviewees on a waitlist. They are simply playing it safe in case a VERY large portion of the accepted decline the invitation.

 

Anyways, this is just my theory:

 

450 interviewed - 220 accepted, 200 waitlisted, 30 rejected

[utwaitlister]

I agree with etbr. af133, I understand why we would think U of T would not lie to us because they are a medical school and part of being a physician is to be honest. We EXPECT them to be honest. That being said however, I find the whole medical school application process to be dishonest. I find it to be very closed book. They do not tell applicants why they did not get admission (as stated in the letter), they do not disclose the scores they give applicants, applicants do not know what they look for and how they even score their application. So I ask, is the admission procedure honest? Keep in mind the public heavily funds medical training and should have the right to know how that money is being spent on what kind of applicants.

 

I know first hand of people that gone in who have sold drugs, treated women with complete disrespect, faked illness to get out of exams, copied lab reports and problems sets, lied about research results, commit to do summer research but did nothing, did something to affect another students grade in a course, harass/threaten T.A.s and profs for better grades, etc. Are those the people you want treating you?

 

I should mention that dishonest people do NOT make up the majority of the class, in fact, they are the minority. I do not mean it as a slight to the people who got in and I am not inferring the people who get in are like that. I just want to make the point that the process is not perfect and people who are dishonest do get in. Overall, I have to say they do a decent job.

[jaegwon]

I agree that the 'put everyone on the waitlist' system is most unfortunate and unpleasant to go though.

 

Couple of things though...

 

I think it would be more accurate to say that the medical school admissions process is non-transparent (true) rather than dishonest (very likely not true).

 

Also, I'm not sure I see how making the process more transparent would prevent people who have behaved unethically from getting in to med school. If these people are able to hide their indiscretions from the adcoms, how would a more open process help catch them without infringing on privacy rights? Seems to me its just an unfortunate side-effect of a competitive process.

[utwaitlister]

jaegwon, you are right, calling it dishonest is a little harsh and not really correct; non-transparent is much better.

 

What I meant with the comment regarding people with poor ethics was that it is difficult to tell what kind of person who gets into med school and since the public is supplementing their education, I feel that they should have a better understadning how med schools select people. For example, I know for a fact, two people got into Western (a few years ago (3 and 4 yrs)) who had a horrible reference letters. Apparently, their references wrote that they would not be a person who they want to go to for medical treatment and disclosed reasons why. How do I know this? The two who got in were complaining how they did not get an interview anywhere else and wondered why. So they asked for the letter their referee sent and he gave it to them. I was told this as a cautionary tale.

 

Based on this example, it would seem that Western puts little to no weight on the reference letter (3 or 4 years ago, it DOES NOT mean they still operate under this practice). Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I really do not know. I guess one can argue that referees usually give everyone a glowing review so it does not really matter. Others can argue that you learn more about the person from what the referee wrote than from the rest of the application (including the interview!). Would you want those two treating you?

[paulchemguy]

Instead, I believe that a very small minority of applicants were rejected (i.e. <10%). In this way, all the pieces fit; UT is being truthful (some were rejected), and we do not hear these applicants, because they are outnumbered by waitlisters.

 

i think af133 is right. they could reject only 2 applicants and put everyone else on waitlist and still be following what they said they would do heh. can't say they are lying, but they are definitely harsh on us... oh well it's a harsh world. wait till mid june then i'll forget about uoft

[af133]

Wow, interesting to see how this topic has spilled over into another discussion.

 

Perhaps, I should clarify my initial post, so that it is not taken out of context.

 

First, I would not like comment on the efficiency of the screening process (i.e. quality of the applicants that gain acceptance) because that is another topic altogether. I am sure that both positive and negative comments can be made on the specific selection criteria and how they are implemented at UT.

 

Second, I would like to address utwaitlister's comment

 

I find it to be very closed book. They do not tell applicants why they did not get admission (as stated in the letter), they do not disclose the scores they give applicants, applicants do not know what they look for and how they even score their application. So I ask, is the admission procedure honest?

 

Having known some of the people involved in the selection process, let me shed some light on the rationale behind this lack of transparency. There are really three interdependent variables responsible for this.

 

a) Administrative Workload

 

Imagine the incredibly satisfying task (note sarcasm) of composing 3000 letters outlining why you did not gain acceptance. Who would be in charge of preparing this? I know that it can be done, but with limited resources, it is currently not possible.

 

Inter-Rater Reliability

 

In a perfect world, rater A, rater B, and rater C would ALL score applicant X, applicant Y, and applicant Z: 7, 8, 9, respectively. Obviously this does not happen. As you can imagine, if it was even logistically possible to release your 'application score,' a very large number of people would file complaints that my application is better than another applicant, yet my 'application score,' does not reflect it. This would further add to the administrative nightmare.

 

c) Self-Evaluation

 

Part of being a successful applicant is critically analyzing yourself as to why you did not gain acceptance previously. Schools prefer individuals who can critically appraise themselves, or, schools prefer individuals who naturally fit the 'med school mold.'

 

I hope that I have provided some of the reasons behind this apparent lack of disclosure on the part of med school admission committees. I do not want to be perceived as non-sympathetic to the waitlisted applicants, remember, I am also a member of this very popular club http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21634, and would definitely prefer to know my status among the other (200?) applicants.

[utwaitlister]

af133

 

I totally agree with your comments as to why they do not disclose more information. However, I still think they should at least give the people who got interviewed some feed back and did not get in (~300 people)

 

I mean if you made it the interview stage, your application is pretty solid to begin with. So where did you "lose points"? Personally, I do not think the spread in points for most applicants before the interview are that great. I also feel most people interview scores will be similiar. Basically, the difference between getting in and not could be a few points. Where did you fall short on the points? The application or interview? I should stress, in my opinion, the spread in points between the top 50 and bottom 50 on the list of the people they initially offered admissions to would be large, but I do not see a big difference between the bottom 100 on the people who got in and the top 50 on the waitlist.

[nowai]

Does waiting on the waitlist at UT preclude you from accepting other choices/backups?

[utwaitlister]

Nowai, being on waitlist that gives you no clue where you are will preclude you from being able to line up backups. For most people, they are in the fourth year, some in their third, while others in grad school.

 

The people in third year should not really have major issues on what to do next because they know that if they do not get in, they will just finish up their degree. Basically, the only issues someone in thrid year would be where are they on the list and what can they do to make themselves more competitive next year in the event they do not get a call.

 

Fourth year and grad students have bigger issues to deal with. If grad school is a viable option, the student has to line up a supervisor, get their application in (this costs money at most schools), and in most cases, the supervisor likes to hire the student in the summer so they can have more training before they get into their thesis work.

 

In the case where one persues grad school and they find a supervisor, get the paper work done, etc. But they find out that they got in off the waitlist, this really is not fair to the supervisor who has agreed to take you on and has budgeted you into their grant. This would make for an awkward situation I am sure most people do not want to deal with.

 

In the case where you decide to work for a year and reapply, it's important that you start finding work in your desired field ASAP because their is a slew of new graduates hitting the job market.

 

Moreover, for those people who feel they should rewrite the MCAT to make themselves more competitive at other schools (i.e. queen's and Western), spots are filling up very quickly and you might not get one if you do not sign up ASAP. Signing up for the MCAT is EXPENSIVE and TIME CONSUMING to study for. I am sure people do not want to do that over again if they do not have to.

[nowai]

Yup, I get those problems but say someone is accepted at Mac and waitlisted at UT. Is the deadline for accepting Mac before when UT moves to their waitlist?

 

I have a few friends in this waitlist situation but they were waitlisted at all the universities and would be happy to go to any. I was just wondering what it's like for someone who wants to go to one school specifically.

[nemo]

Yup, I get those problems but say someone is accepted at Mac and waitlisted at UT. Is the deadline for accepting Mac before when UT moves to their waitlist?

 

Yes. The deadline for accepting an offer in the first round is May 29 and according to the U of T waitlist letter they will begin pulling people off the list at the end of June. This, i.e. not pulling people off waitlists until after the initial deadline, is true for all the Ontario schools except NOSM. I really should have applied there

[gamut]

I don't think that's the case... who told you that all schools other than NOSM would be delaying waitlist movement until the end of June? U of T said so, but I highly doubt they will stick to that plan--it's another tactic to clam the masses.

[utwaitlister]

I don't think that's the case... who told you that all schools other than NOSM would be delaying waitlist movement until the end of June? U of T said so, but I highly doubt they will stick to that plan--it's another tactic to clam the masses.

 

What nemo meant was NOMS is different than the other schools because 1) they give the number where a student is on the waitlist; and 2) they have already started making offers from the waitlist.

[nemo]

I don't think that's the case... who told you that all schools other than NOSM would be delaying waitlist movement until the end of June? U of T said so, but I highly doubt they will stick to that plan--it's another tactic to clam the masses.

 

I didn't say this. Read the second last sentence of my post. By the initial deadline I mean the initial deadline for acceptances which is May 29.

[gamut]

got it , it's reassuring that we don't have to wait THAT long... still sucks though