applying as undergrad or grad?

[toffeetree]

I am in a 4-year combined bachelor of science and master of science program, so in spring I get both degrees. So I'm an undergrad (3rd year) who will also get a masters degree (but the masters program is very much abbreviated compared to normal masters programs). Can I apply as an undergrad to med schools (obviously, I would prefer to...it's totally not fair to compare me to actual grad students...)?

[unknown user 7]

Hmmm...I'm not an expert on this, but I'm sure that since you will be graduating with a MSc, you will placed with the grad students. I have never heard of such a program and seems really weird, but I don't see how its completely unfair if you are placed in the same category as a grad student when both of you will be coming out with the same (or similar) MSc degree its only the structure between the two degrees/ programs that are different. I get your point though. Just to be on the same side I would email the schools that you would want to apply to cause they would know best and are very helpful.

 

Hope this helps.

[Julie]

Hum... I'm not sure I understand... are you worried that applying as a grad student might actually hurt your chances?

 

I'm not very familiar with other school's scoring systems, but for Ottawa, at least, applying as a grad student just can't put you at a dissadvantage, the way I understand it anyway. They first check to see if you meet the cutoff for an interview as an undergrad. If you do, you're offered an interview and they don't consider your grad student status at all. If you don't, then they see if your grad student status could help you. I don't even think you have to ask to be considered as a grad student... but it can't hurt. For NOMS, it also can only help you... they add 0.2 to your WGPA if you have a grad. degree.

 

Is this different for other schools?

[unknown user 7]

I think it also helps for U of T and Mac. I know make they add like 0.1 or something to ur gpa. I don't remember the details, but like I said, I would contact the school or schools that you want to apply to just to be safe.

[toffeetree]

i have no where near the same amount of time as "real graduate students" to produce research results - i have as much as any other undergrad.

 

so if it would hurt to apply to canadian med schools through this BS/MS program, i would rather choose to quit the program, since the goal IS to go to medical school .

[unknown user 7]

i have no where near the same amount of time as "real graduate students" to produce research results - i have as much as any other undergrad.

 

so if it would hurt to apply to canadian med schools through this BS/MS program, i would rather choose to quit the program, since the goal IS to go to medical school .

 

Well, like I said, its best to email the individual schools. Besides, you can still get into medschool with a Masters. If you look at the different forums, especially the Mac forum which I was skimming through this morning, there are a bunch of ppl there that go accepted with their Masters. It all comes down to what you like, what you're good at, and what the different school's criteria are.

[Julie]

I'm curious : where do you think it might hurt (which schools?)

 

Like we said, at least for Ottawa, NOMS (& u of T & mac?), the worse that can happen is that having a masters has no impact whatsoever on your application. If you're good enough with your undergrad marks, then even if you barely passed all your masters courses and didn't have a clue what research was, it couldn't hurt you. That's the way I understand it anyway...

 

So I'm wondering which schools you think might not take you because of your masters/lack of research. If I had to guess, I'd say dropping a masters might give you a bigger challenge, because you'd have to be prepared to explain why you dropped it at the interview... But I may be wrong with other schools, I don't know...

[toffeetree]

oh, i am sure a master's degree wouldn't hurt - it's more a reward for doing a lot of research in undergrad than anything else, and an extra undergraduate challenge.

 

i was more concerned that as a 20 year old applicant, i would have to be compared - because of the joint degree - to graduate students who have spent 2-3 extra years doing master's or 4-5 extra years doing phds, and who would undoubtedly be older and have more life experience in general.

[Dante]

where/how did you get into this combined degree?? sounds like a sweet deal! (and i'm not sure that med schools have a quota to fill with regards to grad students... having a grad degree will simply boost up your application slightly... i think everyone is judged equally, just the MSc degree is like a bonus mark on your application)

[Julie]

I agree with Dante. You will be compared to other grad students, but no more than 20yr old undergrads without masters, as far as I know.

[utwaitlister]

I am in a 4-year combined bachelor of science and master of science program, so in spring I get both degrees. So I'm an undergrad (3rd year) who will also get a masters degree (but the masters program is very much abbreviated compared to normal masters programs). Can I apply as an undergrad to med schools (obviously, I would prefer to...it's totally not fair to compare me to actual grad students...)?

 

 

Question: How would a univserity give a Master's degree to a person who does not even have an honour's degree yet? Am I the only one that thinks this is really strange?

 

In 4yr honour programs, you have to do a year long research project in order to get your UNDERGRAD degree (Although I hear rumblings that you no longer have to submit an undergrad thesis; I do not see Universities giving out M. Sc. to people who have completed one.) In my opinion, a person needs to spend at least a year to earn a M. Sc. because you not only need to have a substantial body of research which requires full time involvment but also need graduate courses to fulfill the requirements set forth by the governmental council responsible for graduate education. I just do not see a person being in a program where you earn both a B. Sc. and M. Sc. in four years. Not enough time....unless of course your university offers core honour courses in the summer and you earn your B.Sc. (4 year equivalent) in 3 years and even then the timing will be extremely tight.

[toffeetree]

thanks for the feedback.

 

an answer to the questions about how one can possibly get both degrees in 4 years is that this master's degree is an american one, so the "governmental council responsible for graduate education" would not be relevant. if you want to know exactly what my program is (what department, what institution, what are the requirements, etc.) you can email me.

[DiscoDoc]

i have no where near the same amount of time as "real graduate students" to produce research results - i have as much as any other undergrad.

 

so if it would hurt to apply to canadian med schools through this BS/MS program, i would rather choose to quit the program, since the goal IS to go to medical school .

 

Good thread, I have the same issue, doing a 1-year Masters and all. I'm hustling to try to submit somthing for publication in the first few months, but its tough. Someone in another thread told me that you don't "apply as a grad student", you just apply. They will see it on your transcript.

[blinknoodle]

I think I know where the OP is coming from, and "research productivity" comes into play different at different medical schools. Some schools don't care about your productivity and will simply give bonus marks (ie. McMaster). Other schools will only consider research productivity if you don't meet the criteria for undergrad applicants and apply in the graduate student pool (ie. at Ottawa). I think schools like Toronto consider productivity for all students with grad degrees. Some students with lower undergrad marks have said that certain non-thesis based Masters programs (ie MBA) give you no extra advantage at Toronto since your research productivity is zero. While I don't agree that MBAs confer no advantage in life, I would venture to say that if you have an MSc, you should be able to compare yourself to other people with an MSc. I have no idea what your combined BSc/MSc program is all about, but certainly standars vary across countries. UK's MSc's are known to be different and only take one year. If you mention you earned a Master's, the next question could very well be, "Tell me about your Masters thesis".