are my stats good enough? masters or fifth year?

[kevin.d]

Hi everyone, I have decided based on gpa calculations that I will not be successful in applying to medicine. and I was wondering if my stats are competitive enough for applying to dental schools in canada and maybe the states? I just finished my 4th yr at UWO (honors bachlor of medical sciences) and I wrote the DAT this february, I am willing to write it again soon as well. anyways here are my stats:

 

yr 1 80.5%

yr 2 76%

yr 3 87%

yr 4 81%

 

DAT:

rc 18

bio 18

chem 19

science total 19

academic avg 18

perception 15

carving 11

 

(I am going to take the US and Canadian DAT this summer to improve my score)

 

So what do you guys think? should I do a fifth year or masters to improve my chances for dental school? my fear of doing a 5th year is due to the fact that UWO dents (and maybe others ) frown upon the victory lap and they take an avg of the last 2 years and convert it into 1 year and so i would have a lower avg...

 

Thanks everyone!

[dr.drill]

Hi everyone, I have decided based on gpa calculations that I will not be successful in applying to medicine. and I was wondering if my stats are competitive enough for applying to dental schools in canada and maybe the states? I just finished my 4th yr at UWO (honors bachlor of medical sciences) and I wrote the DAT this february, I am willing to write it again soon as well. anyways here are my stats:

 

yr 1 80.5%

yr 2 76%

yr 3 87%

yr 4 81%

 

DAT:

rc 18

bio 18

chem 19

science total 19

academic avg 18

perception 15

carving 11

 

(I am going to take the US and Canadian DAT this summer to improve my score)

 

So what do you guys think? should I do a fifth year or masters to improve my chances for dental school? my fear of doing a 5th year is due to the fact that UWO dents (and maybe others ) frown upon the victory lap and they take an avg of the last 2 years and convert it into 1 year and so i would have a lower avg...

 

Thanks everyone!

 

GPA for med and dent are very similar. Your stats are on the low side for dent in Canada. Your DAT scores are also a little low.

 

Dent and Med are extremely different fields. I am a practicing dentist, and think that dentistry is the best job in the world. However ... it takes a specific type of person to be a dentist, and I don't know how someone who picks dentistry because they couldn't get into med could ever be happy in the field. I know I would be completely miserable as an MD.

 

If the GPA for med and dent are so similar, why have you given up on med?

 

 

To get into dent, I would suggest that you apply to Canada and the US with your current GPA and DAT, and in the mean time, rewrite the DAT and improve your GPA so you look better the next application cycle.

 

Good luck.

[wisdom_tooth]

Hi everyone, I have decided based on gpa calculations that I will not be successful in applying to medicine. and I was wondering if my stats are competitive enough for applying to dental schools in canada and maybe the states? I just finished my 4th yr at UWO (honors bachlor of medical sciences) and I wrote the DAT this february, I am willing to write it again soon as well. anyways here are my stats:

 

yr 1 80.5%

yr 2 76%

yr 3 87%

yr 4 81%

 

DAT:

rc 18

bio 18

chem 19

science total 19

academic avg 18

perception 15

carving 11

 

(I am going to take the US and Canadian DAT this summer to improve my score)

 

So what do you guys think? should I do a fifth year or masters to improve my chances for dental school? my fear of doing a 5th year is due to the fact that UWO dents (and maybe others ) frown upon the victory lap and they take an avg of the last 2 years and convert it into 1 year and so i would have a lower avg...

 

Thanks everyone!

Hey,

 

In terms of applying for MED school if you've written the MCATS and you have met UWOs cut offs, seeing that UWO med school only looks at your last two years then I definately think you should give UWO med school a try. You have to have at least one year over 3.7 which you do (your 3rd year) so still give medicine a chance

 

In terms of dental school, again with UWO, I think you have a good chance, again they look at your last two years if we roughly average that it's around 85%, which is not too bad, that's around a 3.6-3.7. Again I would double check that because it all depends on your school. Your DAT scores are average, I would retake them (I am also retaking the DATS) and try to achieve an AA of around 20-21 (learning towards more of a 21). Carving I wouldn't worry about if you're applying in Ont since neither UWO or UofT looks at it. But if you're planning to apply outside of ontario like for example UBC they look at your PAT and Carving score average. So it would be optimal if you also increased your carving score. Speaking of oop dental schools, many of them require english (so do all american dental schools) so if you want to increase your chances and don't mind studying outside of ontario, then take english, ideally in your 5th year if you choose to do a 5th year.

 

Lastly, about that whole 5th year stuff, I was so confused because I too am planning to take a 5th year. So I decided to email Trish @ UWO and she was kind enough to reply and this is what she said:

 

"First of all, are you planning to take a full course load during your 5th year? If it will consist of less than 4 courses, then we will not be considering it for entrance potential. If it will consist of the equivalent of between 4 and 5 courses, then, if competitive, its academic average could be used in our application process, but there would be a slight penalty assessed against the academic average, if used, since it is based on a lighter than full course load.

 

Secondly, since you are continuing your undergraduate education in order to fulfill program commitments, it would not be considered a Special Year in our terminology. Therefore, the Admissions Committee would have the discretion to treat the fifth year as a repeated year, should it be similar in terms of either subject matter and/or level of difficulty to a year previously taken. If this is the decision, then the average achieved in your fifth year would be combined with the average of the similar previous year, and the merged average treated as one year for admissions purposes. Until the Admissions Committee reviewed your transcript, it is difficult to know how the Admissions Committee would decide to treat your fifth year.

 

A further consideration is the fact that since you do not have a degree in hand, you would be responsible for all prerequisite requirements, including the introductory courses in biology, chemistry and physics. (You are eligible to graduate, but you have not done so, and are not planning to do so until you meet your specialization requirements.)

 

I hope this answers your questions. If you have others, again, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

 

Trish "

 

and this is a second email she sent me regarding my question of how my repeated year will be looked at

 

"First of all, are you planning to take a full course load during your 5th year? If it will consist of less than 4 courses, then we will not be considering it for entrance potential. If it will consist of the equivalent of between 4 and 5 courses, then, if competitive, its academic average could be used in our application process, but there would be a slight penalty assessed against the academic average, if used, since it is based on a lighter than full course load.

 

Secondly, since you are continuing your undergraduate education in order to fulfill program commitments, it would not be considered a Special Year in our terminology. Therefore, the Admissions Committee would have the discretion to treat the fifth year as a repeated year, should it be similar in terms of either subject matter and/or level of difficulty to a year previously taken. If this is the decision, then the average achieved in your fifth year would be combined with the average of the similar previous year, and the merged average treated as one year for admissions purposes. Until the Admissions Committee reviewed your transcript, it is difficult to know how the Admissions Committee would decide to treat your fifth year.

 

A further consideration is the fact that since you do not have a degree in hand, you would be responsible for all prerequisite requirements, including the introductory courses in biology, chemistry and physics. (You are eligible to graduate, but you have not done so, and are not planning to do so until you meet your specialization requirements.)

 

I hope this answers your questions. If you have others, again, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

 

Trish "

 

If you have no more dental pre-reqs to fulfill, (i'm taking a 5th year because I still need biochem) then do a masters. I know for sure that UofT gives special consideration for people who have fulfilled a masters degree. I think UWO does too but I'm not sure.

 

I hope this helps

-wisdom_tooth

[kevin.d]

thanks for the advice, you're right, I don't agree with going into dentistry just because I can't get into medicine. What happened was as I was in the process of applying to medicine this past year, i realized that I really didn't have my own reason for being a doctor, I found myself frantically searching everywhere for the "right" reasons to be a doctor, but couldnt come up with anything (the only reason that I can honestly come up with is that I want others to see me as a MD... )My reasons for going into dentistry over medicine is that I really want to perform surgical procedures, but I dont want my life to be consumed by my work; the curriculum is interesting to me, and I would like to stay in school and continue learning (but the same goes for medicine). Most importantly, I want to have the freedom to move my practice so I can enjoy all that this world has to offer, and i want to have a job which offers security and wealth so I can focus on doing my job and not stress out about taking care of my family or helping others. and lastly I like the potential of being able to teach with a dds degree in case I start to lose grip on my clinical practices.

 

Would these be valid reasons for becoming a dentist? or am I just fooling my self into a world of dissapointment like this past application cycle when i realized that I didnt actually want to be a dentist?

 

thanks for the advice and pls keep em coming!

 

Kevin

[kevin.d]

Hey,

 

In terms of applying for MED school if you've written the MCATS and you have met UWOs cut offs, seeing that UWO med school only looks at your last two years then I definately think you should give UWO med school a try. You have to have at least one year over 3.7 which you do (your 3rd year) so still give medicine a chance

 

In terms of dental school, again with UWO, I think you have a good chance, again they look at your last two years if we roughly average that it's around 85%, which is not too bad, that's around a 3.6-3.7. Again I would double check that because it all depends on your school. Your DAT scores are average, I would retake them (I am also retaking the DATS) and try to achieve an AA of around 20-21 (learning towards more of a 21). Carving I wouldn't worry about if you're applying in Ont since neither UWO or UofT looks at it. But if you're planning to apply outside of ontario like for example UBC they look at your PAT and Carving score average. So it would be optimal if you also increased your carving score. Speaking of oop dental schools, many of them require english (so do all american dental schools) so if you want to increase your chances and don't mind studying outside of ontario, then take english, ideally in your 5th year if you choose to do a 5th year.

 

Lastly, about that whole 5th year stuff, I was so confused because I too am planning to take a 5th year. So I decided to email Trish @ UWO and she was kind enough to reply and this is what she said:

 

"First of all, are you planning to take a full course load during your 5th year? If it will consist of less than 4 courses, then we will not be considering it for entrance potential. If it will consist of the equivalent of between 4 and 5 courses, then, if competitive, its academic average could be used in our application process, but there would be a slight penalty assessed against the academic average, if used, since it is based on a lighter than full course load.

 

Secondly, since you are continuing your undergraduate education in order to fulfill program commitments, it would not be considered a Special Year in our terminology. Therefore, the Admissions Committee would have the discretion to treat the fifth year as a repeated year, should it be similar in terms of either subject matter and/or level of difficulty to a year previously taken. If this is the decision, then the average achieved in your fifth year would be combined with the average of the similar previous year, and the merged average treated as one year for admissions purposes. Until the Admissions Committee reviewed your transcript, it is difficult to know how the Admissions Committee would decide to treat your fifth year.

 

A further consideration is the fact that since you do not have a degree in hand, you would be responsible for all prerequisite requirements, including the introductory courses in biology, chemistry and physics. (You are eligible to graduate, but you have not done so, and are not planning to do so until you meet your specialization requirements.)

 

I hope this answers your questions. If you have others, again, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

 

Trish "

 

and this is a second email she sent me regarding my question of how my repeated year will be looked at

 

"First of all, are you planning to take a full course load during your 5th year? If it will consist of less than 4 courses, then we will not be considering it for entrance potential. If it will consist of the equivalent of between 4 and 5 courses, then, if competitive, its academic average could be used in our application process, but there would be a slight penalty assessed against the academic average, if used, since it is based on a lighter than full course load.

 

Secondly, since you are continuing your undergraduate education in order to fulfill program commitments, it would not be considered a Special Year in our terminology. Therefore, the Admissions Committee would have the discretion to treat the fifth year as a repeated year, should it be similar in terms of either subject matter and/or level of difficulty to a year previously taken. If this is the decision, then the average achieved in your fifth year would be combined with the average of the similar previous year, and the merged average treated as one year for admissions purposes. Until the Admissions Committee reviewed your transcript, it is difficult to know how the Admissions Committee would decide to treat your fifth year.

 

A further consideration is the fact that since you do not have a degree in hand, you would be responsible for all prerequisite requirements, including the introductory courses in biology, chemistry and physics. (You are eligible to graduate, but you have not done so, and are not planning to do so until you meet your specialization requirements.)

 

I hope this answers your questions. If you have others, again, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

 

Trish "

 

If you have no more dental pre-reqs to fulfill, (i'm taking a 5th year because I still need biochem) then do a masters. I know for sure that UofT gives special consideration for people who have fulfilled a masters degree. I think UWO does too but I'm not sure.

 

I hope this helps

-wisdom_tooth

 

hey wisdom tooth thanks a lot! i was just outside moping around in the sun thinking i had no shots at meds nor dents...we are actually in similar situations, I am also planning to take biochemistry in order to apply to UBC and some US schools, and I will take an english course too. however a friend of mine got rejected for an interview at uwo bc he did a fifth year and they did something weird calculating his avg so it actually hurt his chances! i'll go talk to trish in person this monday and see what she advices.

 

are u also considering US dental schools? my biggest concern is that they cost so much and staying in the states might not be suitable for me...what are ur thoughts?

[mkmkhan]

my advice will be biased but, an MSc. degree is the way to go if your stuck still trying to "figure" things out.

 

I was in a similar position as you are in now 2 years ago when i finished my 4yr degree. I wasn't sure about Medicine or Dentistry and I decided to a master's, put myself in a position where I would be able to familiarize myself with both environments. I got paid for my work which helped, I got an advanced degree out of it and it boosted my application from just another undergrad to a graduate student status.

 

The key though is grades, if you have anything at 3.7 or greater than 3.7 cumulative as a grad student, chances of getting into medicine and dentistry go way up. Schools are focusing a lot on grad degrees these days IMO. Everbody I know here who did a master's got into meds or dentistry.

 

5th year is good but, thats a slippery road ...

 

my recommendation is if you don't feel time is going to be an issue then, see if you want to do research and by the end of it, you'd have learned a lot of life skills in addition to gaining a research background ...hope that helps

[wisdom_tooth]

hey wisdom tooth thanks a lot! i was just outside moping around in the sun thinking i had no shots at meds nor dents...we are actually in similar situations, I am also planning to take biochemistry in order to apply to UBC and some US schools, and I will take an english course too. however a friend of mine got rejected for an interview at uwo bc he did a fifth year and they did something weird calculating his avg so it actually hurt his chances! i'll go talk to trish in person this monday and see what she advices.

 

are u also considering US dental schools? my biggest concern is that they cost so much and staying in the states might not be suitable for me...what are ur thoughts?

 

oh and one more thing i forgot, UofT doesn't see the 5th year as a victory lap, I emailed them and they treat all years the same.

 

Personally, I really really don't want to go to the states. I think you should apply everywhere in canada and if that doesn't work out then apply to the states. That's how what I plan to do. Kinda like working my way from in to out, start with ontario, then out of province then the states LOL and YES MONEY IS A HUGE FACTOR FOR ME! HAHA even if I get a 150 000 loan from a canadian bank, 4 years alone in an american dental school is 150 000+, you'd need to get additional loans for rent, food, travel etc., you get the picture, it'll definately get costly.

 

I Know some people who want to get into dental school asap whether it's canada or the states so they apply to all schools at once, they don't want to waste anymore time, but for me I'd rather be patient and get into a school that I won't regret in the long run, and by patience I mean doing a fifth year and if I have to doing grad school.

 

Some advice about grad school, choose something that you can benefit from, I did a Bsc. in psych and I was thinking of doing a psyc masters degree but then I thought it over, for one thing you can't do much with a masters psych degree unless you go on and do a PhD and become a prof/psychologist (I may be patient, but not patient enough for pursuing something that I'm not really passionate about). Second, I know for a fact that most university's that offer a masters program in psych require both good marks, letters of recommendation, the GRES general & subject tests, and essays. Personally, that's just as time-consuming and stressful as completing the med school application process and 10X more harder than doing dental school application in ontario. That's why I plan to do either OT or physio. Most other grad school programs have curriculums that require intensive research, and they don't necessarily guarantee you a good job, but only really prepare you for your PhD. With OT or physio there is a high demand, just in case, God forbid you don't get into dental school, you can at least get an okay paying job.

 

That's how I see it, I know others will disagree with me it all depends on what you like if you like research then doing a masters in psych, bio, chem etc is good. But my sister has a friend who is doing her masters in bio or something of that nature and her supervisor said oh don't worry your thesis project will be done in less than 2 years, guess what, she's entering her 3rd year of masters, trying to finish up her thesis. I'm not trying to turn you off from grad school, because I think that's the best choice to make if you don't get in after 5th year plus, it'll look great on a med school application (more research, the better).

[wishywish82]

I also did a master's before applying to dentistry, however my reasons may be a bit different. I was really good at doing experiments and love working with my hands, however once I got to graduate school and realized that it was crazy hard to get money to conduct your research and eventually you end up in meetings all day and have to write tons of grants and crap to keep the ship afloat I realized I didn't want to be a desk jockey.

 

I was lucky because I figured this out right away, however there were many positive aspects of going to graduate school, such as gaining teaching experience and being able to supervise undergrads who work on my project. I also had to do alot of animal surgeries and this was awesome for manual dexterity. Plus as was previously mentioned you actually start to get paid to go to school and with the way things are going you'll soon need a graduate degree to get accepted into professional school, it made a difference for me I would not have gotten interviews at U of T or Western as an OOP if I didn't have a master's.

[1T0_Dents]

Hi everyone, I have decided based on gpa calculations that I will not be successful in applying to medicine. and I was wondering if my stats are competitive enough for applying to dental schools in canada and maybe the states? I just finished my 4th yr at UWO (honors bachlor of medical sciences) and I wrote the DAT this february, I am willing to write it again soon as well. anyways here are my stats:

 

yr 1 80.5%

yr 2 76%

yr 3 87%

yr 4 81%

 

DAT:

rc 18

bio 18

chem 19

science total 19

academic avg 18

perception 15

carving 11

 

(I am going to take the US and Canadian DAT this summer to improve my score)

 

So what do you guys think? should I do a fifth year or masters to improve my chances for dental school? my fear of doing a 5th year is due to the fact that UWO dents (and maybe others ) frown upon the victory lap and they take an avg of the last 2 years and convert it into 1 year and so i would have a lower avg...

 

Thanks everyone!

 

 

All the above posters had some good comments..........My honest advice is taht your GPA and DAT's are good enough for any school. If you wanna do a victory lap or an MSc, no worries...but to be honest there are many people in D-School (Canada and the US) who have a much lower GPA and DAT score than you... as for your carving score an "11" WHY in the world would you need to worry, I know at least 6 people in my class with about a "5" on carving, and a few friends at UWO with a really low score. Just toss your application in, relax and let the rest take care of itself. Good luck.

 

 

Cheers,

 

[mkmkhan]

yup

 

i got a 3 in carving ...at first i thought it was a 30 but, after clearing my eyes it was still a 3 ...for u of t ..carving doesnt mean nothing

 

depends on which school you applyin for

[koft]

3! LoL! Just kidding. To be honest, ontario dental schools don't give a crap about the craving score, I can't say for others. Don't be too harsh on yourself, just apply and see what happen! You never know what will happen, but if you don't apply, you will NEVER get in!.. Good Luck

________

Dodge caravan

[kevin.d]

All the above posters had some good comments..........My honest advice is taht your GPA and DAT's are good enough for any school. If you wanna do a victory lap or an MSc, no worries...but to be honest there are many people in D-School (Canada and the US) who have a much lower GPA and DAT score than you... as for your carving score an "11" WHY in the world would you need to worry, I know at least 6 people in my class with about a "5" on carving, and a few friends at UWO with a really low score. Just toss your application in, relax and let the rest take care of itself. Good luck.

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice, my fear is that I have to get in somewhere next year, bc since i didnt get in anywhere this year my parents are pressuring me big time to apply to meds again...so, with that in mind, do u think i have a legitimate shot at a lot of canadian schools? i ask this because I have to decide whether i want to apply to the US also, which i have to start doing pretty much nowadays:(

 

o and one more thing, im not sure if everyone is familiar with it but there is a program here that offers a MSc and a DDS in 6 to 6.5 years. that is, a seat in DDS class is reserved for students upon entering this MSc program (which is through schulich faculty). my question is would having a Msc degree help a DDS degree in any way? i do know that I would like to have multiple aspects to my dental career, teaching and research for example, but would a MSc be necessary if I was going to get a DDS anyway?

 

thank you very much for your comments again:D

[koft]

....

 

o and one more thing, im not sure if everyone is familiar with it but there is a program here that offers a MSc and a DDS in 6 to 6.5 years. that is, a seat in DDS class is reserved for students upon entering this MSc program (which is through schulich faculty). my question is would having a Msc degree help a DDS degree in any way? i do know that I would like to have multiple aspects to my dental career, teaching and research for example, but would a MSc be necessary if I was going to get a DDS anyway?

 

thank you very much for your comments again:D

 

That program is intended for research / teaching rather than primary care. That is why the MSc/DDS program -> PhD. Because there aren't any around in the field.

 

A MSc is not necessary to get a DDS, but at UWO they consider Graduate student differently than undergraduate student.

________

HONDA CIVIC

[kevin.d]

That program is intended for research / teaching rather than primary care. That is why the MSc/DDS program -> PhD. Because there aren't any around in the field.

 

A MSc is not necessary to get a DDS, but at UWO they consider Graduate student differently than undergraduate student.

 

hmm ic, but do you need a Msc to get into research or more importantly teaching? I know at some point in my career I would like to change things up a bit.

 

Thanks

[koft]

hmm ic, but do you need a Msc to get into research or more importantly teaching? I know at some point in my career I would like to change things up a bit.

 

Thanks

 

Depends on what kind of teaching you are referring to. Lecture teaching or teaching in the clinic as a row instructor. The former you will at least need to be a specialist or a PhD (Maybe MSc) or be considered an expert in that field to teach. The Latter, you probably only need 2 years of clinical experience.

________

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