Chemistry or chemical engineering before medical school

[scott326]

Hi!

I just have a few questions regarding the undergraduate education

I am going into grade 12 this fall and haven't decided on which undergraduate

program to go into next year. Well, I have vague ideas of what i want to do in the future (a medical doctor being one of them) . To be more specific, careers which have something to do with chemistry.. so I am just wondering if majoring in chemistry(not biochem but "chem") would fulfill the prerequisites set by Canadian medical schools. Also, which university would be a good school to gain my undergraduate experience? I hear so many people saying "Never go to U of Toronto because all the science profs are tough" Is that true though?? one last question.... How hard is it to get a gpa of 3.8 in university? You know we use % in canadian high school... Therefore, i have no clue as to how gpa is calculated and used to summarize one's academic competence..

 

I will be looking forward to the replies... thanks everyone

[Jazzie]

To answer your GPA calculation question: http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20903

[ashlay]

My advice is go to whatever school you want to, they're pretty much all the same academically and if one school marks harder than the others OMSAS knows it (look at the GPA conversion chart). Go to whatever school you think will benefit you the most. When I was choosing undergrad I was struggling between U of T and Western, and I chose Western because I thought it would be more fun, and it was the best decision of my entire life. So pick a school where you will have fun but still be able to work hard, and be able to get involved in as many things as possible.

 

About the 3.8 thing... notice that % grades are not linear with GPA. Any mark below 80 majorly pulls you down. For example you could have an 85 average but only a 3.5 GPA if you get all 95's and 75's, but if you have consistant 85's across the board your GPA will be 3.9. You kind of have to learn to strategize... it's not worth spending all your time in 1 class to get a 90 and ignore another one and get a 70 when you could have done the same amount of work and gotten 80 in both.

[scott326]

how about majoring in chemistry???

no one has answered that part of the thread!!!

[Satsuma]

Hey,

 

Have a look at the schools you think you would like to apply to and make a list of the prerequisites they have (you could make a chart).

 

Then you can look at the chem program you are taking and see what courses might be missing for the prerequisites. You would need to complete these missing prerequisistes as part of your electives in chem.

 

It won't be a problem to do chem. You just need to make sure you meet the prereqs for the schools you want to apply to...but that is true for any program you would go into. Most of the prereqs are pretty basic.

[NLengr]

You should be fine majoring in chemistry. You'll be able to fit your pre-req's in.

 

Have you thought about chemical engineering? It involves alot of chemistry, but it's more applied chemistry, and less theoretical. You'd get to do things that have direct applications in the real world on a large scale (for example in an oil refinery designing and maintaining equipment) vs. running alot of theoretical work (for example in a university lab researching possible bonding mechanisms). Chemical engineering can incorporate lots of other fields too (physics, bio, economics, business etc.) The pay and job prospects are also much better then a straight chem degree. If your interested in chemistry it may be an option for you. It's also an excellent degree to apply to medicine with, and makes an excellent back up plan.

 

The downsides are of course, engineering tends to be a difficult degree so you have to work your butt off to get good marks, and it's sometimes a 5 year program (you should do a work term).

[scott326]

but why do people keep saying that "never go into engineering if you want to go into medicine due the following logics :1) You won't have enough time to study for MCAT 2) engineering is notorious for its heavy workload so that you have the disadvantage of having to handle all the tough engineering courses as well as other pre-med courses.. 3) The statistics indicate that not many engineering students have been accepted into med-school for the last couple of years (maybe med-schools prefer science students.. over engineers

 

let me add a question... umm even if i major in chem engineering, would i be able to take the prerequisite courses during the semester? or should I take it in the summer? I heard that I can't take many electives in engineering programs.... Any advise would be appreciated.. Thanks!

[Jochi1543]

3) The statistics indicate that not many engineering students have been accepted into med-school for the last couple of years (maybe med-schools prefer science students.. over engineers

 

No, it's because not many engineers apply to med school - they are already graduating with a major that will yield well-paid employment. Most of the science majors are hoping to go to professional school afterwards (med, dent, vet), because there isn't a whole lot you can do with a bachelor in science.

[NLengr]

Engineering is tough, and it's alot of work. But if you are willing to put in the work, and you aren't a total moron, you should do well. The real key is to just make sure you clear the cut offs and get to the interview/final decision process. The universities know engineering is hard, they'll take that into account when they make their decisions.

 

You can fit your pre-req's in. Either do them as electives or extra courses. You can do them over work terms if you have to. As for the MCAT, it's the same kind of deal. You can do it over a work term (or a summer off if you have it).

 

As for not many engineers being accepted, it's because VERY few engineers apply to medicine, as was said before. It's not a normal career move. I believe, however (and this isn't official in any way), that the success rate of applicants with a B. Eng. is probably very high compared to the rate of success for someone with say a B.Sc. From my dealings in the two professions, I have found that there is a great deal of mutual respect and admiration between them.

 

However, don't do engineering unless you like engineering. If your heart isn't in it, you will get eaten alive. It is something to think about though, as you weigh your options.

[blinknoodle]

Chemical engineering is one of the most friendly engineering prgrams for medical school pre-reqs as you normally have to take chemistry, organic chemistry, biochemistry, physics, etc as part of your degree. McMaster has a biosciences program which falls under chemical engineering that has nearly all med school pre-reqs built into their curriculum. Your other conerns are valid - engineers typically have heavy courseloads, most heavily focused on projects/groupwork (great learning environment), and also quite practical for real life. Chemistry through science is also an option and still consider if you really enjoy it.

[Alastriss]

I can't stop emphasize how important it is to do something you will enjoy.

I heard it all the time and responded by "yeah yeah yeah, just tell me what the bird courses are"

A course that you enjoy will make you: get out of bed and go to class, not fall asleep in the lecture, and will facilitate a more positive learning approach.

I have done really well in classes that had 60-something averages simply because I was so interested in learning it that it wasn't a chore, and I have done worse in classes that i hated but were otherwise considered easy.

 

 

I can't comment on other universities, but for queens I can say:

engineering is a tough program with a lot of work, but people do get high marks in it and it is possible

Biochemistry is a tough program too in my opinion, but again people do get high marks in it.

Life sciences is a great program (with all the upcoming changes) that I feel have prepared me very well for the MCAT. It is also a good sneak peak at some of the things that you might be doing in medical school (or so some of my profs say who teach life sci and med students) Of course there are vast differences but its nice to test the waters out.

Engineering chemistry is conceived to be the toughest, and it is not to be confused with chemical engineering.

 

Once again I can't stop emphasizing that tough and easy are subjective adjectives that aren't worthy of a great deal of emphasis. Remember to do what you enjoy best and take the opportunity to explore different disciplines with your electives. Uni is a great experience so make the most of it!

[The Law]

how about majoring in chemistry???

no one has answered that part of the thread!!!

 

You can major in anything and apply to medicine, so long as you take the pre-requisite courses. You'll have space to take them throughout your studies, or during the summer if you wish. With Chemistry, you'll not have very many pre-reqs that you'll need to take... you can easily squeeze in biology, physics, and obviously you'll have chemistry. Organic chem will most likely be a part of your module, and you'll take it in 2nd year. Which then leaves you with just taking a humanities (english is a pre-req at most US schools, if you're interested in possibly going south of the border... also a pre-req at some Canadian schools) or a social sci (also a pre-req at some schools).

 

The schools do not care what your major is. Take what you like.

[scott326]

Thank you everyone!

 

All of your posts were very helpful! =]

 

Right now, I am pretty much inclined to majoring in chemical engineering

 

because I love chemistry and I have a fairly high mark in that course..

 

and I imagine I will be having no life in university? =p

[radhika]

Thats good..I am in Biopharmaceutical sciences in med chem option at ottawa U in which i pretty much had to take all the prerqs...there was definitely an emphasis on orgo chem, drug design etc in my 3rd year which was quite challenging but i like orgo chem....I have my 4th year to go which i know is going to be a killer with honours project etc...Good luck!!

[The Law]

It's critical to be in a program that 1) You enjoy and 2) That you can attain high marks in. If both of these criteria are a go for you, then you'll most likely do well in it.

[ACHQ]

If you do consider engineering as a route towards medicine, you should consider either the biomed eng or the biochem eng at McMaster University, the Biomed engineering program is basically electrical engineering with the key courses in the life/health sciences, (and of course biomedical engineering courses), by the end of your third year you will have met the preqs for almost all med schools and will have the basis courses for the MCAT. The Biochem engineering program is basically the same thing but its a chem engineering degree with the lifesci/health sci courses, (along with their tailor bioengineering courses) and it is also 5 years, where as the biomed program is 4 years

 

However, this being said engineering is pretty tough regardless of what school you go to, if however your smart and put alot of effort into it you can pull of an ok to good gpa.

 

Good luck

[JewelLeigh]

You could also consider any type of Engineering combined with the Engineering and Society program at Mac. This is a 5-year program that would allow you the time to do the med school pre-reqs and get a minor if you wanted.

[scott326]

hb material science engineering at U of T?

[NLengr]

My opinion is stick to whatever discipline interests you most. For me, that was mechanical. For some of my buddies, it was biomed, computer, electrical or Ocean/Naval. You can fit the pre-req's into any program a lot easier then you can work for 30 years in a field you don't enjoy.

 

Another thing to think about is that it's easier to specialize from a general degree then it is to generalize from a specialized degree. For example, if you're a mechanical eng. then it's easy to work for a wide range of companies doing lots of stuff. You could work designing artificial joints, or airplanes, or steam turbines. If you're a biomed. eng., then you'll be able to work with artificial joints no problem, but it might be harder to get the other jobs I listed. Not impossible, just harder. I know loads of engineers who end up working outside their discipline. In the same line of thinking, a chem eng. will have a wider range of work that's easy to get into than a biochem. eng.

[a41]

To the OP: I graduated from Engineering Chemistry at Queen's, which is a dually accredited Chemical Engineering and Chemistry degree (the only kind in Canada). Personally, I think that the dual accreditation is pretty useless. It was a very rigourous and comprehensive program, one that was very satisfying to complete.

 

PM me if you want some advice or have any questions.

 

hb material science engineering at U of T?

 

I have a friend currently in MSE at U of T, and my dad did the Materials option of Eng Sci, as well as went on to get his PhD from that department. I've been told not to go into that program...I don't think it's well regarded at the moment.

 

Be warned, I loved chemistry and did very well in high school. As a high school student, you really have no idea about what chemistry is. It turns out I enjoyed the chemical engineering more than the chemistry. If you are interested in biomedical engineering, it's really more important to get into doing summer research with a prof, than it is to take a certain program. You'll get so much more exposure that way.

[NLengr]

Be warned, I loved chemistry and did very well in high school. As a high school student, you really have no idea about what chemistry is. It turns out I enjoyed the chemical engineering more than the chemistry. If you are interested in biomedical engineering, it's really more important to get into doing summer research with a prof, than it is to take a certain program. You'll get so much more exposure that way.

 

With engineering, your discipline is never that important. Experience is what matters. All you learn in your degree is how to think, not so much what to do. You learn most of your stuff on the job. Hence the 4 year training period after you get your B. Eng to when you can become a professional engineer and can actually do things by yourself. Much like residency, that's when you learn the guts of your work.

[cary_fan]

I would warn against taking EngSci at UToronto if medicine is your eventual goal. Even amongst engineering programs, engsci is rather unforgiving and it'll make it that much harder to do well. While a very select few do manage to excel, I think the overall stress level is unreasonably higher than it is for most other engineering programs at Toronto or at other schools.

 

Just my two cents.

[a41]

If you want to do engineering, I would highly recommend Queen's. It may not be the most reputable program out there, but aside from Queen's being a great school there are a few reasons you might want to consider coming here.

 

The small program makes it REALLY easy to get involved with research projects over the summer, and lets you get to know your profs well.

 

OMSAS also has a very forgiving scale for Queen's Engineering (83 is a 3.9). I haven't been able to determine if this is true for other schools, or even every year, but during the last cycle all the Queen's Eng I know had their yearly averages converted into grade points, rather than individual course marks.

 

Just my two cents.