Damage done?

[Thinking]

Hello all,

 

I'm a 2nd year student at Dalhousie and have a question about admission Medicine at Dal. I have to admit that I never really thought of going to Med. before today so excuse my ignorance. I messed up my first year pretty bad (C+) but was in a "academically rigorous" program, Dalhousie Integrated Science Program (DISP) for those of you who know it. First semester of 2nd year is nearly over (3 weeks left) and this semester is also pretty terrible.

 

However, after an interesting life experience, I'm really interested in Med and am, finally, motivated to actually achieve something. I do have some stuff under my belt thankfully. For example the DISP name (would that help even though I did badly?), I had a NSERC funded internship at the NRC the summer after Gr.12/before 1st year and have been working in a lab at Dal since 2nd semester of my 1st year and will likely remain there till I graduate. So basically my question is as follows: If a person messed up their first & second year is there a chance they can still be accepted if they significantly boost their grades and have a decent resume?

 

I only plan on applying to Dal, is it safe to assume there is a NS or Maritime resident bonus? I guess everyone else from NS/Maritime's would receive that bonus too but it might help.

 

And I'm sure volunteering would help the resume too. Do Med schools only look at medicine related volunteer experience though? Since I've volunteered in places like Soup Kitchens & my Church for years. I do have SOME hospital volunteer experience, but they're minimal and were done several years ago.

 

Cheers,

Thinking...finally.

 

P.S Thanks for your help :-)

[Madz25]

Dal's medical admissions website will answer many of your questions. The site can be found here: http://admissions.medicine.dal.ca/

 

Short version:

 

1) Dal wants a 3.3 minimum GPA in the last 2 consecutive years of full time study from maritime residents. If you can pull up this year's GPA to a 3.3 and keep a 3.3 next year, you meet the cutoffs.

 

2) Dal likes to see healthcare related experience (especially recent, patient-oriented exposure to healthcare). That doesn't mean you ONLY have to do extracurriculars related to healthcare. Dal likes to see well-rounded individuals so variety in your activities is certainly acceptable.

 

Hope this helps.

[Dal07]

So basically my question is as follows: If a person messed up their first & second year is there a chance they can still be accepted if they significantly boost their grades and have a decent resume?

 

I'd also suggest reading the Dal site, like Madz25 said. But here's my two cents:

I know many people who have done DISP and it's a tough program. But that doesn't mean that you can't 'recover' from it! Dal will look at your last 2 consecutive years in determining your GPA for your academic score.

Try and pull up your GPA this year, and then go all out next year. The 3.3 GPA is the cutoff for applying as a maritimer, but realistically most people who are accepted have a higher GPA than a 3.3 ... so try and work as hard as you can to get the best grades possible! You also have to write the MCAT, so if you can pull off a good MCAT score and bring up your GPA, you should be set for a good academic score for Dal.

 

 

Regarding volunteering - Madz25 is right, Dal prefers healthcare experience - especially those involving close patient contact. So you should start looking into some different options to gain that type of experience.

 

The 'bonus' of applying as a maritimer is that you have a lower GPA/MCAT cutoff to apply, and the majority (81 out of 90) of the seats are reserved for residents.

 

Hope this helps! Good luck!

[Thinking]

Thank you both for you help and the link.

 

I just have a few more questions for you.

 

1. From the way I'm reading the website it seems that they don't look at your 4th year marks, am I right?

 

2. Realistically, if I achieve a 3.3 this year and 3.7 or so next year and a decent MCAT (which in my understanding is usually 30+?) what are my odds of admission in the first round? I don't expect true statistically-solid answer just a "I've-been-around-for-x-many-year-and-this-is-what-I've-seen" answer.

 

3. Is DAL known in liking an "up-wards" curve? So if they see a C+-> B+ -> A- are they more likely to be forgiving about the C+? I understand that it's not used to calculate the GPA used for application but I'm sure it'll attract their attention.

 

Edit: Adding a question :-)

 

4. I've looked for an answer on this on Dal's website but can't find it if it's there excuse my poor searching abilities. What does DAL think of summer courses and repeat courses? If I repeat a course in the summer would they take the higher (I assume the one in the summer) mark?

 

Cheers!

[Dal07]

1. If you apply in your 4th year, they will look at your second year and third year marks to determine your GPA score. Obviously they will look at your 4th year marks to make sure you aren't failing or anything, but they won't be a part of your GPA calculation. If you apply after you've graduated, they will look at your 3rd and 4th year marks.

 

2. There are too many other factors that play into admission to give you an answer on this question. GPA and MCAT account for your academic score, which is 30 points of the total grading scheme (note: this is the scheme used last year - I don't know if it will be used again this year). The admissions committee looks at SO many other aspects (i.e. your extracurricular activities, volunteering, medically related experience, work experience, awards/scholarships, references, and interview performance).

 

3. I don't know the answer on this one ... but in my OPINION, improving your grades shows determination, focus, and hard work, which are all good qualities

 

4. It's my *understanding* (I did a quick search and couldn't find this on the dal site either) that Dal doesn't take summer courses into account. I don't know about repeat courses. But again, I don't feel comfortable giving you an answer so this is something you should email them about to get a definitive answer!

[Madz25]

I'm afraid I can't add to Dal07's answer.

 

I don't think Dal looks at summer courses and I don't know about repeat courses.

 

I think an upward trend looks nice., but Dal isnt "known" for it..you had a rough start but you're getting through it and working hard. If it's a downward trend then it may appear as if you cannot handle the tougher work load that's required in senior level courses. Dal looks at your last 2 consecutive years, so your C+ average in first year wont even be looked at.

 

You really can't tell if someone will get admission based on GPA and MCAT alone. It depends on what your ECs are, what the applicant pool is like the year you apply, your reference letters, your essays, and even on who reviews your application. Med school admission isn't cut and dry, much of the process is subjective.

 

If you apply in the fall of your 4th year then your 4th year marks will not be looked at. If you are accepted, Dal requires a final transcript showing successful completion of your degree.

[Madz25]

OK...so I've found out that summer courses are not even looked at. As in, when your transcript arrives, summer courses are LITERALLY not looked at. Only your last 2 consecutive full years are noted. So you can have all D's in first year and even that wont be looked at.

[scooter]

Hey,

Just to add to the others- if you are that concerned it means you are pretty focused which is a good thing. Just try to keep the marks up in 3rd and 4th year. Remember 1/3 of applicants are repeat applicants, so worse case scenario you have to do a 5th year or work and get some real life experience. Starting right out of university isn't always that great- i'm really really glad that i took a couple of years off it was an amazing experience.

 

Don't let "getting into med" consume you- there is a lot to University so enjoy it and look at other options to make sure that med is right for you.

 

Cheers,

Scooter

[Madz25]

To add to Scooter's post:

 

If you've finished your degree and are doing a 5th year then your best 3 years will be looked at. For example, say you did great first and year and bombed 2nd year but did well in 3rd year, you apply in your 4th year (as many applicants do) but your last 2 consecutive full time year GPA (2nd + 3rd year) doesn't meet the cut. In this case, doing a 5th year will help you since your best 3 years will be taken into account (1st, 3rd, and 4th in this case).

 

Hope this helps.

[Thinking]

Thanks everyone for you input! I think that realistically I will need a 5th year, which I'm actually pretty psyched for.

 

Question about what you brought up Madz. If I do go for a 5th year do they HAVE to look at your top 3 years? Or if your last 2 years (3&4) are higher than the top 3 they'd stick with those? Because I have a feeling that my last 2 consecutive years GPA will be higher than my top 3 average.

 

Cheers to you all!

 

Edit: Because I guess if they take you best 3, wether or not it's better for you, I'd probably be better off working that year and getting life experience.

[Madz25]

hmmmmm I'm not sure ...I can find out for you if you'd like. I think that's their policy to take the top 3 years if you've finished your degree. However, if your top 3 didn't meet the minimum reqiurements but your last 2 did...I wonder if they'd make an exception in that case.

 

if you're going to take a year off, please DO something with that time! don't just sit around waiting for the next cycle to start.

[Thinking]

I've emailed the admission office and once they reply I'll post the answer here so thanks anyways!

 

Haha, yeah I know. I've always wanted to volunteer abroad so I guess this would be the perfect time to do so. Boost my resume while get some soul-searching done. :-)

[chiller]

What is this about summer courses? What if i do a semester thats winter and summer, do they not count that as a full year if i do 10 courses?

[Thinking]

Are you talking about full year courses? Sept --> April? If so those DO count.

Summer courses are those taken after April and last about 3 weeks but you have classes daily.

[doc2B]

I don't know that much about Dal's policies, however my understanding of what I read is that they will ALSO consider your best 3 years if you have already graduated, meaning they'll take which ever gives you a better GPA for the scoring process. It's written in slightly more detail through the Dalhouse Calendar than on the admissions site but not much. It doesn't say anything about summer courses but my impression of how Dal figures out your GPA for scoring purposes seems very fair and reasonable and they tend to work out what's going to be best for individuals. For example people with graduate degrees get a GPA that seems to be a mix of undergrad and grad degrees if it will be better for that person (although it isn't stated anywhere on their website). They did mention on the site that it is not preferable that you repeat or fail courses especially in your last 2 years. I think special consideration for summer courses may be taken if you actually take a full course load (i.e. 5 courses) during that semester, especially for people who did co-op programs and actually had their regular semester take place in the summer time. I know this occurs for programs like Computer Science and Engineering. I'm sure you can clarify with the admissions office however.

[Thinking]

Well I got a reply today, doc2B you're right.

 

"If you don't meet the minimum GPA in the last two consecutive years,

then we would look at the best 3 out of 4 years of your degree."

 

Cheers