DalNeuron Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 So I was talking about homeopathic medicine today and wanted to field the topic as a thread in this forum. How do you feel about homeopathic practices? Would you recommend them under any circumstances to your patients? Is there anything beyond the placebo effect taking place when you take them? How about traditional chinese medicines... are the millenia of ritual and accumulated knowledge worth anything to medicine, or is it only okay if the westen hemisphere has passed every drug through clinical trials? I'm interested to hear your thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
its_a_conspiracy Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Personally I feel that homeopathic medicine is a viable alternative to Western medicines that I would recommend under certain circumstances to my patients if I were a doctor, mostly as a form of supplementary treatment but not as a primary form of treatment for serious ailments. Perhaps the results come from placebo effect, but IMO if homeopathic medicine didn't deliver results, it would not have survived and perpetuated itself amoung many past and present civilizations. There are also research projects being conducted on homeopathic remedies via partnership btw homepathic practitioners and medical schools, and it seems to me that this is the starting of the acknowledgement of alternative medicines as having theraputic potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 There is NO evidence that homeopathic treatments work (past the placebo effect) so i would never prescribe it as a main course of treatment. That being said, if a patient is not suffering from a serious illness and wants to look at some "alternatives" i would bring up homepathaty and naturopathy, but i would make it clear that there has not been any viable evidence that they actually worlk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmiegibbler Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 There is NO evidence that homeopathic treatments work (past the placebo effect) so i would never prescribe it as a main course of treatment. That being said, if a patient is not suffering from a serious illness and wants to look at some "alternatives" i would bring up homepathaty and naturopathy, but i would make it clear that there has not been any viable evidence that they actually worlk. Naturopathy is not synonymous with homeopathy and it encompasses herbalism in which case there is viable evidence for many herbal treatments. In some case it makes a lot of sense (to me) to suggest they look at herbals first i.e. trying valerian instead of a pharmaceutical for sleep or fenugreek for milk production. However I would probably recommend they see an ND since herbals are not uniform in concentration or quantity, have a physiological mechanism and can interact with pharmaceuticals or can be contraindicated to other medical conditions. NDs are trained to prescribe them and MDs aren't. Herbal medicine is just medicine that isn't created in a lab. Many pharmaceuticals are used 'off label' by physicians when it isn't properly understood why they work, or sufficient evidence proving they even work(for the off label use). I am not saying all herbals work, but MDs can't prescribe them and don't even know enough about them to suggest it. They aren't covered under drug plans because there isn't enough evidence, and there isn't enough evidence because pharmaceutical companies fund the lion share of clinical trials. Its kind of sad actually. I agree with what you said about homeopathy. I would be upfront about what I thought but supportive of their decisions unless it involved going off treatment for a serious illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I think it is important to keep an open mind when discussing alternative treatments with patients, even if you don`t have a high opinion of these treatments, if only so that you encourage your pts to be upfront and honest with you. Some pts are reluctant to share with their physician things that potentially you would like to know as it could have an impact on their treatment. I once had a pt who bought some cold remedy while in China. Out of curiosity I had taken down the name of the ingredients and looked up what was in it. Turns out the product is available neither in Canada or the US because of risk if stroke! So that was my lesson to make sure to take an interest in the non-prescribed things your pts are taking. There are certainly studies going on looking into various herbals, acupuncture etc. The thing is...once something has support it will become part of mainstream medicine and no longer be considered alternative. I think physicians have the responsibility to respect their pts decisions but to also inform the pt that there is often not enough evidence for alternative treatments to know if they will be beneficial or harmful or neutral and to also explain that the content of natural products are often uncontrolled and variable in quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDakota Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 The people who immediately dismiss natual product medicine might might want to rethink their positions after considering that over 95% of the drugs on the market right now are derived from plant natural products. Tylenol (ASA), Taxol, Digoxin, Vinblastine, reserpine (toothpaste), morphine, codine etc.. are all from plants. Basically the only major non-plant derived pharmaceuticals on the market are nucleosides used in the treatment of HIV. Yes, natural products, or herbal remedies are not as potent (for the most part) as pharmaceutical grade therapeutics, but that doesn't mean they have no effect. It's all about if the products have the ability to reach their site of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hike Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 While I am not opposed to alternative treatments, the philosophy of homeopathic medicine bothers me. As I understand it, practitioners believe by administering diluted solutions of medicines that produce the same symptoms as the disease they are treating will cure/improve the illness. By my assessment it is the exact opposite to Western style medicine (giving a product that will produce "opposite" symptoms to restore homeostasis), and I don't really see how you could support both. It is also my understanding that homeopathic medicine is quite new (compared to Traditional Chinese medicine or Naturopathy), and rather unproven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 The people who immediately dismiss natual product medicine might might want to rethink their positions after considering that over 95% of the drugs on the market right now are derived from plant natural products. Tylenol (ASA), Taxol, Digoxin, Vinblastine, reserpine (toothpaste), morphine, codine etc.. are all from plants. Basically the only major non-plant derived pharmaceuticals on the market are nucleosides used in the treatment of HIV. Yes, natural products, or herbal remedies are not as potent (for the most part) as pharmaceutical grade therapeutics, but that doesn't mean they have no effect. It's all about if the products have the ability to reach their site of action. the diff between homeopathy and westerb neds is evidence based medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDakota Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 the diff between homeopathy and westerb neds is evidence based medicine. homeopathy does not equal natural product medicine, so you might want to quote someone else. If you quoted the right person, then I guess somehow you don't see the various drugs I've listed as therapeutic, as your statement seems to suggest there isn't "evidence based medicine" to support their functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 homeopathy does not equal natural product medicine, so you might want to quote someone else. If you quoted the right person, then I guess somehow you don't see the various drugs I've listed as therapeutic, as your statement seems to suggest there isn't "evidence based medicine" to support their functions. no iagree with you that "natural" compounds do often lay the groundwork for treatments. But they have to go through rigorous evb before they can be used with reliability.... something that is lacking with naturopathic and homeopathic doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janieK Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 The people who immediately dismiss natual product medicine might might want to rethink their positions after considering that over 95% of the drugs on the market right now are derived from plant natural products. Tylenol (ASA), Taxol, Digoxin, Vinblastine, reserpine (toothpaste), morphine, codine etc.. are all from plants Absolutely true. And don't forget all the natural toxins e.g., amanitin, ciguatera, tetrodotoxin, phytoestrogens, etc. Natural products are not all good or all bad. A natural product may contain one beneficial compound along with many toxic ones. That's why medications are derived/purified from the natural products. Also, unlike medications, natural products are not standardized from batch to batch. So, for example, one batch may be many times as potent as another batch (particularly if grown in different places/under different conditions). This makes giving a consistent, appropriate dosage quite problematic. BTW, the amazing wonder drug ASA (originally derived from willow bark...) is Aspirin, not Tylenol. Interesting thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_B Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 1) Having studied what Homeopathy is during a course in undergrad, I must say that it is, to me at least, nothing more than a sham. The principle of treating someone with the various poisons they are suffering from is simply foolish. The dilution ratios that they apparently use are such that the laws of physics don’t allow for the product to even have an effect. Nothing more than a money grab by some people in my mind. (I think it is important to note that I am referring to Homeopathy only, and not naturopathy and other alternative medical systems out there.) 2) Western medicine using plant derived medications has nothing to do with dismissal of “natural product medicine”. Scientifically tested medicine that has been put through extensive clinical trials for both efficacy and safety shouldn’t be compared to unproven and potentially harmful “natural products”. The fact that many things like digoxn or ASA are natural plant products doesn’t mean we should blindly accept others. And if you believe otherwise, I have some Hemlock I can sell ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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