I have a big problem

[zaiva]

Hi everyone,

 

I am finishing a degree in economics in Montreal but I realized lately that I want to do medicine. I am 23 years old, finishing my econ degree in December 2008. French is my first language.

 

Here is my little story:

 

I have 2.40 GPA, out of 4.3. I started very well, was in honors and co-op, was doing fine but then I failed a LOT of classes during a whole year, last year. My father got cancer and died that year. I was not going to class, not studying at all..... That made my GPA drop a lot.

I am 23 years old now. I got into economics by accident ( grades to low for law school, but good enough for that type of program....) and I am sure like I have never been during my entire life that medicine is what I want to do in life. I know that I have the capacity to be a good doctor.

I have no money, my family can't really help me for that problem...but I'll borrow to a financial institution or something...

Lately I spent a lot of hours looking at possibilities. I know that EVERYBODY is accepted in 1st year in France....but only around 20% passes to 2nd year. Kind of a competition where you don't only have to pass your classes but be better than the other students.....At least they give you the chance

 

I know also that some countries like Croatia offers programs in english (Zagreb Med school)... and that a lot of them finish practicing in the USA.

 

But in Europe medicine is different, it's 6 years plus 3 of residency in order to be a family doctor. 9 years.....

 

I have little science background (a lot of math, some physics, no biology or chemestry at all). I will do some science classes as electives before I graduate.

 

Now What do I need to do to get in a med school here in Canada? Is it easier do be accepted in USA?

How many years, programs, MCAT tests, or whatever else do I have to do?

Do I have to entry in the army to increase my chances.??

 

I'll really prefer to stay here in north america. Do you think that I stand a chance?

 

What if I do the first year in France and then apply to transfer in Canada?

 

Give me your opinion please!

[tallguy408]

Before I start spouting a fountain of information at you, a big question first. How are you so sure that you want to do medicine? Not to be insensitive here, just a voice of reason. It's not due to feelings from your father's ailments and passing, is it? As hard as it is, look really reeeeaaaaalllly deep and make sure that your dad does not impact this sudden interest in medicine. That is to say, make sure he is not the sole, or even a majority reason for your interest in medicine. Med is a buttload of work, hard hours, self-doubt, sacrifice, cost, stress, and to do this for anything but yourself is beyond pointless. If you are sure, drop another post, and I'll send you a bunch of good stuff.

 

Word.

[lansky]

I disagree with that tallguy408, the first time I realized my interset in medicine was shortly after my grandmother was diagnosed with a terminal cancer. Watching the oncologists trying to improve the quality of her last days to their best abilities was something that I looked up to and was inspired by. Not all of us grow up knowing exactly what we would like to become, sometimes, life encounters even at the age of 23 can help us better understand our interests and get to know ourselves more. I do want to become a doctor because this is somehting that I would want for MYSELF, but in addition to that, I would like to become a doctor to serve and help OTHERS. I am not trying to attack your post as I can see that you are trying to be helpfull, just wated to introduce my point of view:)

 

It is important to note that indeed the road to medicine is extremely long and difficult, but those who are truly passionate about it, will enjoy it. I actually think that being personally touched by a devastating ilness can motivate one to become a better physician because it promotes feelings of comapssion and empathy towards patients which can help a doctor in rough times.

 

Zaiva, if you can mainatina a GPA of 3.7-3.8 out of 4.0 for at least two years, you may have a good chance at some of the Ontario med schools such as Western an Queens provided that you score over 30 on the MCAT. From your post I get a sense that you have not yet had a chance to do a thorough research of the option available to you in North America, I suggest you browse the forum subjects as they can give you more insight to a lot of the concerns you were adressing. To answer all your questions in here would be quite lenghty but if you have any further questions you can PM mee as well.

[doc2B]

I agree with Lansky life experiences definitely shape what we want to do in life. And a life altering experience such as the illness and death of a loved one becomes such a big part of who we are going forward. A desire to do anything and work hard toward anything comes from our entire life experience. That is why most schools require an essay or essays and a list of extra-curricular activities. The interview is another good way for them to judge that your life experiences have satisfactorily prepared you for the decision to study/practice medicine. People aren't born knowing they are going to be a doctor and there are many reasons why people decide to become physicians. Some because their parents are doctors and have influenced their life in a certain way because of that. Some may know very early on and some may have one or a few life changing experiences that push them toward a career in medicine. First hand experience with the medical field as a patient, family member or clinician is often a driving force toward a medical career. And I believe it is a pretty good one. Seeing medicine from the different perspectives is very important. Having the desire to work as hard as is required one needs to be passionate about their work. Passion comes from all kinds of things, but the desire to help others as you have been helped or as your love one has been helped is a great fuel for passion.

 

Zaiva, I think you should definitely work towards medical school. If you only did poorly in one year due to a death in the family, you can often explain that on an application. Another way to go about it, is to have those marks removed from your transcript. You can speak with the Dean at most schools (it could be the Dean of the Economics or Business school, or the Dean of Arts or something). If you have a death in the family especially such a close family member you can have marks removed from your transcript. You may have to provide some sort of paperwork, death certificate, doctors note etc.

 

Also, you should look into requirements for the schools you'd like to apply to. My understanding is that there are many spots available to French Canadians mostly in Quebec, but some in Moncton, and Ottawa and you could also apply to other spots at other schools if you'd like. There are schools as mentioned previously that only require 2 years of good grades and a good MCAT score. For the schools that require your entire cGPA to be good if you have those grades removed from your transcript you shouldn't have problems with those schools either.

 

You're still pretty young, I'm turning 27 this year and I've just been accepted. I would suggest, first trying to get the grades removed from your transcript. Second, look at all the schools you'd like to apply to and find out their requirements. You might have to take some other courses as pre-reqs. So, third take any courses you need and just make sure you're doing a full course load, so you might need to take some extras. And of course don't forget about the MCAT. Study hard and do well on the MCAT. Get your references together and your list of extra-curriculars and you should be good to go.

 

Good luck!

[agentchris]

Hey Zaiva, Lansky and Doc2b have provided some great advice I think. Tallguy I severely disagree with your post. I sort of see where you were trying to go with it, but how you got there was a little jacked imo. I just don't think you are in any position to tell someone that developing a deep desire to pursue medicine due primarily to a family illness or death is an insufficient reason. In fact, I think that can be one of the most powerful motivators to want to help others. I know it is for me:)

[zaiva]

Why I want to be a doctor?

 

Before my father's illness I was doing great in economics. As I said, I entered in econ by accident. I had average grades before university, was not studying too much, but I had to go to university....cause that was the family plan since I was born ( High school, Cegep, University...). I thought, well at lest at that time, that in order to be someone in life you had to go to university... I don;t believe that anymore.

 

Medicine is not an accident....it's a CHOICE that I am making and I am fully aware that I will have to sacrifice many things. I'll have to stay in school for a couple more years (I already see my friends finishing there degrees and bying houses with their girlfriends....it won't be the case for me for a while....but I don't care...I WILL be a doctor, I WILL do the thing that it the most rewarding for me, save lives, cure diseases).

Yes that idea started to grow during my father's illness. I realized at that time that I want to help people, cure people, save people. I believe that it is a privilege and a blessing to do this job.

 

 

Now, as you guys said I started reading many posts. Doing 2 years with 3.7/4.0 GPA I can do it. MCAT, I'm not ready to take it now, but these 2 years should be enough to prepare it.

 

I found this in the AFMC web site....VERY instersting. It gives a lot of information about admissions for ALL med schools in Canada.

 

http://www.afmc.ca/pdf/2008_admissions_book.pdf

 

What I really need is information about how being accepted as fast as possible. Do you believe that if I pass to the 2nd year medicine in France then I apply in Canada, I'll improve my chances? What about going to Africa working in the red cross? Will it improve. Is the best way kill these 2 extra years or is there other substitutes?

 

Thanks anyways for all your comments. I really appreciate all of them!

 

ps: I will talk to the dean, it would be GRAT taht he erases that year

[zaiva]

it would be GREAT,....not GRAT!

 

The idea of doing humanitarian help for something like the red cross, it comes from that post. It looks like a great life experience and it may not hurt when you apply for med school.

 

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26392

 

I still have my mouth open, impressive life and very rewarding experiences.!!

[A-Stark]

It sounds like you have precisely the right sort of motivation.

 

Now, as you guys said I started reading many posts. Doing 2 years with 3.7/4.0 GPA I can do it. MCAT, I'm not ready to take it now, but these 2 years should be enough to prepare it.

 

Yes - but I'd add that you should be aiming for closer to a 3.8 in those two years, since schools like Queen's expect that level for the two best years.

 

I found this in the AFMC web site....VERY instersting. It gives a lot of information about admissions for ALL med schools in Canada.

 

http://www.afmc.ca/pdf/2008_admissions_book.pdf

 

What I really need is information about how being accepted as fast as possible. Do you believe that if I pass to the 2nd year medicine in France then I apply in Canada, I'll improve my chances? What about going to Africa working in the red cross? Will it improve. Is the best way kill these 2 extra years or is there other substitutes?

 

Volunteering in another country is good, but Canadian medical schools essentially never allow students to transfer in with advanced standing. If you'd started already in a country like France, I'd imagine they'd wonder why you weren't finishing there too. You essentially need those two years to improve your academic record, prepare for the MCAT, etc, and I'd say that's about as fast as you can go. Which is fine - I'm 25 and I've just been accepted.

[futuredoc]

Just take the core pre-req's (depending on where you want to go and for the MCAT) and bird courses. The objective is to get the highest GPA you can. Don't go to France for it, only 10% make it to second year (they have a weird system there).

[tallguy408]

I agree with all the comments made here, and let me elaborate on my above post. I think that you have to want medicine for more than just the acute emotional reasons of a loved one's passing or death. You don't want to go into medicine thinking you can "change the past" or "bring someone back". I know that sounds cliche as all heck, but I have counselled people on this before. I think it's really important to take a step back and ensure that the reasons you want medicine are sustained, not just emotional compensation for a tough time. Sorry for not being more clear before. I totally agree that a personal experience can make you a better physician.

 

agentchris, I appreciate your comments, but I would suggest you to look at how some of your colleagues on this thread rebutted my post, and try similar tactics in the future. It is better to be constructive than come off as attacking another (which happens far too often on here). Not criticizing you (too much), but just a suggestion for more effective communication. Thanks for sharing your experience and feelings with all of us on here.

 

Word.

[agentchris]

Hey TallOne don't feel attacked man! Had I said my post to you in person it probably would not have come off that way! I mean you were kind of sarcastic in your reply to me because you felt "attacked" but I am not going to suggest you brush up on your communication skills because I think it was just a natural response to feeling that way. I felt you original post was presumptuous and that's why I responded with a more "in your face" response. It doesn't sound so bad in person though! Anyways, no need to draw this out...I now see what your whole point was. Thanks.

[Julie]

Not to drill on motivations, but have you had the chance to consider other careers in which you can help people & save lives? There are lots (ie psychology, nursing and social work come to mind, just to name a few). Medicine is absolutely awsome & I do encourage you to pursue it, but it's always good to think of the why's a bit. You'll need something to get you by during days when you question how much help you're doing and how many lives you're saving... Anyways, sorry if it sounds like we're challenging you, it always happens on these boards when someone posts on recently deciding that medicine was an absolute right choice... it's only to help, really... worse comes to worse, if you've really thought it through, then you'll have a great answer to the "why med" when you get an interview!

 

Good luck!

[zaiva]

Lately, it is kind of an obsession, a good one. The kind of obsession that you can't really explain to people cause the you don't know the correct words to explain it.

I had the chance ton question myself lately and I tryed to guess what type of person I will be in the future. I imagined myself as an economist first, and it only confirmed that it is not what I want to do in life.

 

I then made that deep search into myself and found that I want/need something, a goal, a mission in my life. Medicine came alone into my mind, and since that day, I am more convinced, day after day, that it is what I want/need to do.

I don't want to be a doctor. I want to be a very good doctor.

 

I only regret that it took so many time for me to realize it! I admire a lot the people who realizes it at a younger age and I FULLY understand and encourage people who realize it at an older age.

[the unsub]

agentchris, I appreciate your comments, but I would suggest you to look at how some of your colleagues on this thread rebutted my post, and try similar tactics in the future. It is better to be constructive than come off as attacking another (which happens far too often on here). Not criticizing you (too much), but just a suggestion for more effective communication. Thanks for sharing your experience and feelings with all of us on here.

 

Word.

 

Wow great communication skills...arrogance, condescension, sugar coated with some mock concern, love it!

[tallguy408]

Wow, one line response, with text taken out of context, about material not addressed or relevant in any way to you! Love it! Tool.

 

Word.

 

PS - Way to bash without ANY relevant content added to the actual topic of the thread. Again, you are a tool x2!

[tallguy408]

Hey Zaiva,

 

Just reviewing your original comments, do you only have one year with a poor GPA, or many? Sorry to ask a bit of a personal question, but the answer means very different approaches to getting into meds! And I think Julie brings up some really good points. There are lots of entrances to healthcare other than medicine, most or all very, very rewarding. That being said, it sounds like you are super-set on medicine (which is good!). I have no idea myself, but what are the admissions criteria like for Sherbrooke, Laval or Ottawa-francais? Does your GPA look decently good at any of them? Each school massages your marks a bit differently, again pertaining to my above question.

 

Word.

[the unsub]

Wow, one line response, with text taken out of context, about material not addressed or relevant in any way to you! Love it! Tool.

 

Word.

 

PS - Way to bash without ANY relevant content added to the actual topic of the thread. Again, you are a tool x2!

 

Ouch! Did I touch a nerve? No bashing here. I just wanted to point out your great communication technique is all. No harm, no foul bro. Word.

[zaiva]

Medicine is what I will do.

 

For my GPA's, it was 3 semesters doing very bad plus one where I DISC everything.

 

For Sherbrooke, Laval, Ottawa, how will it be faster?? . I never heard that they only consider the best or the 2 best years... but the overall GPA...( which is 2.40)...

 

U Montreal has this Preparatory year!! It would be amazing to go there (my city), but I don't care where, I just want to be accepted.

 

Are you guys sure that Queen's and Western only look at you best 2 years + MCAT??? Is it subject to change within 2 years??

[webshy]

Are you guys sure that Queen's and Western only look at you best 2 years + MCAT??? Is it subject to change within 2 years??

 

Western counts your best two years with a minimum of 5.0 courses per year. Western will offer you an interview based upon one year above their GPA cut-off, provided you are registered in a second eligible year. Any acceptance will be conditional upon having two years above the GPA cut-off. Western does not care how well/poorly you do in your other years, provided you graduate with an Honours degree.

 

Queen's counts either your overall GPA or your most recent two years. For Queen's, you only require 3.0 courses per year. Again, your overall GPA doesn't matter, provided your most recent two years meet their cut-off. Both years must be completed prior to applying.

 

Any university can change their admissions criteria at any time, so there are no guarantees that the criteria will be the same in two years time. Both Western and Queen's have used the above method for determining GPAs for over 10 years.

 

Best wishes to you!

Elaine

[zaiva]

Western does not care how well/poorly you do in your other years, provided you graduate with an Honours degree.

 

 

Elaine

 

What if it is not an honours degree?

[zaiva]

One more question.

 

I am finishing my degree in december in econ.

 

After should I :

- apply to another undergrad degree and kill it for a year?

 

- apply to a masters degree and kill it for a year?

 

- continue in my degree and do or re-do classes I did poorly while killing it for a year??

 

-some other solution??

 

 

Thanks a lot for your comments people!!!

 

We'll be colleagues one day!!!!haha!

[futuredoc]

Western does not accept people without an honours degree. You should probably just finish your degree and start a new one. That way you get a degree and get a chance to do well on a blank sheet. I think some places look at all your degrees though (can someone confirm this?).

[zaiva]

Western counts your best two years with a minimum of 5.0 courses per year. Western will offer you an interview based upon one year above their GPA cut-off, provided you are registered in a second eligible year. Any acceptance will be conditional upon having two years above the GPA cut-off. Western does not care how well/poorly you do in your other years, provided you graduate with an Honours degree.

 

Queen's counts either your overall GPA or your most recent two years. For Queen's, you only require 3.0 courses per year. Again, your overall GPA doesn't matter, provided your most recent two years meet their cut-off. Both years must be completed prior to applying.

 

OK let's do a simulation:

 

- I do a 4 courses during summer 2008, all A's

- I do 5 courses during Fall 2008, all A's I graduate in Economics with a 2.8 GPA

- I enter another program, let say a 2 year masters degree for winter 2009 and take the equivalent of full time courses...all A's

At same time I do the MCAT and kill it, equivalent of A...let say

 

- I take summer off ( go volunteering ...let say with red cross in Mozambic)

 

- I go back to my masters full time course load fall 2009, all A's

During that time I apply to western and queens ( and knowing myself...all other med departements in the country, even abroad...)

 

I should minimun get an interview at Western and maybe be accepted on condition that I kill the winter 2010 session, full time course load...all A's

 

 

OK people, is this a realitic simulation, or can I improve this story??

[Blackkeys]

OK let's do a simulation:

 

- I do a 4 courses during summer 2008, all A's

- I do 5 courses during Fall 2008, all A's I graduate in Economics with a 2.8 GPA

- I enter another program, let say a 2 year masters degree for winter 2009 and take the equivalent of full time courses...all A's

 

You have to do two years of full-time undergrad at or above their cutoffs, not grad school. This is also supposed to happen during the regular fall-winter session, not summer school.

Good luck! Browse these forums and you'll be able to answer most of your own questions and come up with some other action plans.

[zaiva]

One last thing!

 

What would be better? After I graduate I graduate in econ, doing courses in any health related science or anything would do as long as I kill the GPA??

 

Of course killing the GPA in a health related science would be the best...