summer after first year - research versus electives?

[Guest Trinity Chat]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm deciding on what to do for my summer between first and second year of medical school, and I would really appreciate some help since I'm sooo confused!!...

 

1. How do you define (in terms of hours per day/ weeks etc. a first year elective during the summer?

 

2. Is it better to do a research project during the summer or elective?

 

3. If I choose to do research, does it matter for competitive residencies whether I do clinical research or bench research? Is one better than the other?

 

4. If I end up doing research in the summer, would it be possible to follow a doctor around for a weekend or two and qualify that as a first year elective?

 

I know it sound like a lot of questions, but any help appreciated!! Thanks!

[Guest UWOMED2005]

1) I did a 4-week international elective after my first year, in Switzerland, followed by 6 weeks of travel. I worked about 35-40 hrs/wk (same as a clerk in swiss, minus call)

 

That gave me an excellent opportunity to both do something constructive while also have some downtime to relax and see the world.

 

I didn't get paid for my first year elective. I DID get paid for my second year 8 week elective, as it was a government sponsored program.

 

ANYTHING academic you do over the summer is a plus over what you're supposed to be doing (as that time is supposed to be a break.)

 

2) In terms of your specific question, RESEARCH vs CLINICAL ELECTIVE that is highly dependent on what career you're interested in pursuing, and what your previous research experience is. If you've already got 3-5 papers from research in your BSc/MSc/PhD premed programs and you're interested in a program that is not too focussed on research, then doing more research might not be worth the time spent. On the other hand, if you're interested in a very academic research oriented program and you don't have any research experience at all, then 2 months of research experience might be very beneficial. . . if you can get a couple papers out (a dodgy proposition.)

 

3) I'd do clinical research. But that's just me. Once again, a lot depends on the program you're interested in: something like Emerg is usually all clinical related, whereas path and transplant surgery/immunology have a lot of wet-lab research associated.

 

4) Based on the format of the CaRMS application, I think it would be very dodgy to include weekend and single day electives on your resume. I did include my two major elective blocks after 1st and 2nd year, and to be honest - even that seemed a bit dodgy. The way things are recorded on the CaRMS app, to include weekend and single day electives, you'd pretty much need to include an entry for each one. . . which would dilute your real electives.

 

Do weekend electives if YOU'RE interested in learning. Don't do them for credit - because you won't get much credit for them.

[Guest Theodosius D]

ANYTHING academic you do over the summer is a plus over what you're supposed to be doing (as that time is supposed to be a break.)

 

For anyone who has just taken that 1st summer off. Does it have a real potential to hurt your chances at Carms success down the road? I know that this might largely depend on the competitive nature of the specialty you are shooting for but, in general.

 

Theo

[Guest UWOMED2005]

I was actually quite surprised how insignificant my summer electives looked on my CaRMS apps.

 

Once again, this question is HIGHLY DEPENDANT ON WHAT PROGRAM YOU ARE APPLYING TO.

 

But I wouldn't just sign up for a summer elective after first year because you felt you were obliged to remain competitive.

[Guest EB]

hi trinity,

 

i don't think anyone can tell you which is "better", research or electives... my honest advice is to do what you enjoy, because time is SO precious in med school...

 

between first and second year i spent 2 months on a research project & 1 1/2 months in Montreal doing the Summer Language Bursary Program... SLBP was great, but that research project was a nightmare. Why did I do it? I thought it would make me a good candidate for surgery... in the end, I decided against surgery, and wasted most of my summer working on something I wasn't really interested in... I regret not doing something else...

 

between second year & third year I spent 2 months doing a research project on aboriginal women and one month doing a women's health elective at McGill... it was a great summer... i did the project because it interested me (It was not a medical project) and the elective helped me figure out what I wanted to do as a career...

 

so my basic advice is that you do something that is aligned with who you are as a person...

 

if you went into medicine because you enjoy working with people, do an elective which does not require much medical knowledge (because you don't have it after 1 year... I sure didn't)... something like an STD clinic, inner city shelter, palliative care...

 

if you went into medicine because you enjoy ethics spend some time in your university's bioethics department/centre...

 

if you enjoy the science of medicine then maybe a research project would suit you... a lot of projects apply to more than one specialty, so if you haven't made up your mind try find something like infectious diseases (which can apply to any specialty) or psych...

 

i think all that's really important is that your medical school experiences highlight who you are as a person... my women's health elective & aboriginal health project speak much more about my values in life than my gen surg project ever could...

 

i hope you can find something meaningful to do with your free time!

[Guest Trinity Chat]

thanks for all the insight!! i think I'll do a clinical research project so that I can get to interact with people and explore the field a bit

[Guest endingsoon]

I think that most people would do SOMETHING in their summers; just goofing around and doing jack will likely put you at a disadvantage.

 

The key is to mix something 'mediciney' with some fun stuff.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Actually, I know a fair number of people who took one or both summers off in the "preclinical years." There's nothing really wrong with taking that time off - heck, it is a summer break after all!

 

Yes, those people were the minority in my class (at least for taking both summers off), but based on the CaRMS application format I doubt they'll be heavily penalized for that come CaRMS time. At least, I doubt it would show glaringly on a CaRMS app - based on what we filled out. I guess there is the time there to get some clinical experience completed.

 

But doing something (clinical or research) certainly isn't going to hurt you come CaRMS time. And there really isn't enough elective time as it stands to explore things sufficiently. . . at least as far as I'm concerned. I did something productive both summers and don't regret it all.

[Guest endingsoon]

Yeah I am sure it happens, but as you said most people I know did something.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yeah, but I'd say a good solid third did nothing after first year. That's not insignificant.

 

My point is that if someone weren't planning on doing 15 things during the summer, they shouldn't be freakin' out or feel that they should be forced into doing something "to stay competitive". . . of course, dependent on what their career goals were (ie plastics or ophtho - then you probably should be doing some research or electives)

[Guest 1Smiley]

So, do you think that research in internal med would help a little bit in applying to a specialty like optho or not? The research opportunities in optho are very limited where I am, but it's something I'm interested in. I wouldn't be closing doors if I decide to pursue research in internal but decide to apply to optho in the future, would I? Are there other things I could be doing to show I have an interest in this area?

[Guest CaesarCornelius]

Smiley,

 

I am also considering ophtho and from what I can tell it probably varies by univeristy. I have heard from one program director that ANY research is awesome! Research in any field looks good, shows you are a keen student. However, I personally think that if you want a particular specialty then you should do some research in that field. Especially ophtho since we get so little exposure to it in medical school.

 

Just my two cents.

 

CC

[Guest endingsoon]

Only problem is that I am like 100% sure that EVERYONE applying to ophtho will have some form of research under their belts. Having it in the ophtho field only helps set you apart from other candidates.

[Guest cutieyellow]

Yeah, but I'd say a good solid third did nothing after first year. That's not insignificant.

 

Seeing how we only had 2 mths off btw 1st and 2nd year (after 2 semesters in a row of classes), i'd say that at least 3/4 of my class did diddly squat that summer.

 

I am not sure how that looks but i can see how it might seem disadvantageous. I don't think everything's lost however. I have four months off this summer (between 2nd and 3rd) and i'm not sure what to do yet. Have to study for USMLEs, have a few weddings out of town to attend, can't do electives because i'm only doing my 5 weeks of Introduction to clerkship in September, so....what now ? Research? Not really interested (did enough during undergrad!), shadowing? Hmm...something to think about.

 

CY

[Guest endingsoon]

You can do electives before your 'intro to clerkship' stuff

[Guest cutieyellow]

Electives for credits? No i can't.

 

Seeing how i don't have the Intro to clerkship (5 weeks of just basic clinical skills), i won't be considered a 3rd yr yet, therefore it's impossible for me to take electives that will count as clerkship credits under my belt. Only things i can do is observation (shadowing) or research. Of course, none of this can be credited.

 

CY

[Guest Valani9]

So what makes something an "elective", that you can enter into your application?

 

Does it have to be an official program? What if you just shadow a doctor for a few weeks - can you put that in?

 

Thanks

[Guest endingsoon]

I have seen a few second year students do electives (mainly in IM) and yes they are not for credit but they are certainely more than 'observation' as they carry their own patients.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

On your CaRMS application, there is a section titled "Electives." It is not 100% clear if this is strictly for 4th year electives or if you could include other electives as well.

 

The risk in listing 1st and 2nd year observerships in this section is that it might seem chintsy. And if you end up doing numerous 1-2 day electives and list them - you're going to dilute your real 4th year electives on the application. As well, the application asks you to state the dates of the electives as if they are a continuous block - doing a one day a week elective doesn't really fit into that format.

 

I chose to list my two summer long electives which were organized programs of 4 and 8 weeks each. I thought that was a good solution that didn't look too chintsy and/or dilute my other electives. I did NOT include day long electives as my total number of electives would have gone from 5 (3 4th year + 2 preclerkship summer) to a couple dozen and it would have been difficult to tell what my real electives were. I'm not sure if that was the correct course, though - we'll see come CaRMS time.

 

And of course there's always the question as to whether will actually bother to read my paper application. Lots of programs don't. CaRMS isn't about completing a checklist of activities and have the best resume.

 

I think the real strength, from a competition aspect, of doing electives is the experience you get under your belt and the contacts you make. After all - that's a large part of the CaRMS game, getting the people in the programs to know and realize your not an idiot and won't be an annoying pest for 5 years if you're in their program.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there UWOMED2005,

 

If lots of programs don't read applicants' paper applications, then what evidence do they use in making their interview invitation decisions? (Just wondering and trying to get better up to speed on this process. )

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest endingsoon]

Well I know for a FACT that some programs do not read the application or personal letters with any degree of interest.

 

Carms is based on a multitude of things depending on the program you apply to.

 

Universally, I think most people would agree that the important points are:

 

1) marks

2) electives (ie - electives at the school/in the field)

3) letters of reference (should be from 'important' people and should be top notch)

4) research

 

They really don't need to read an application to get this information. The most important point to remember is that LOR are so vital...not only how good they are, but who writes them. That letter from a community urologist or emerg doc up north won't mean as much as those from the major teaching centres.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

HTML Comments are not allowed

[Guest 1Smiley]

So, for anyone that's interested, I e-mailed the program director for Opthalmology at U of T to ask about what I should do if I want to keep this avenue open.

 

I go to the University of Manitoba and, unfortunately, we have no formal Optho program. He said that the research I plan in doing in ped nephrology would be wonderful (which is pretty much what some of you guys told me already) and that I should do electives in the field and shadow opthalmologists in the community. Research in general seemed to be absolutely key.

 

Take care all!

[Guest CaesarCornelius]

I don't normally correct people's grammar, but you have to stop spelling it opthalmology... im sure that would look awful in your personal letter. Its oPHthalmology...

 

And pronounce it o-F-thalmology, not o-P-thalmology.

 

I am an ophtho gunner like yourself. I am constantly having career crises (a lot to do this with board), as people constantly use ophthalmology as the example of an extremely competetive specialty that people have to donate corneas to the eye bank in order to get accepted.

 

Great to hear about UOT, I hear that they are the school to go to if you like research (which I do).

 

Good luck

 

CC

[Guest UWOMED2005]

@#%$. I really hate that HTML comments not allowed drill - I wrote about 500 words worth of stuff on CaRMS and what's important. And I'm not going to go to that effort again.