summer after first year - research versus electives?

[Guest endingsoon]

Well I know that Optho is going to be INSANE this year at UofT. There are like so many amazing applicants, and I would not be surprised to see our class take like 10-12 of the 16 or so spots across the country.

 

Optho gunners are a dime a dozen guys, so it will always be tough. If its really what you want to do, then you need to start make some connections as soon as you can and give yourself a fighting chance.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yeah, ophtho's not that big this year at UWO. I can only think of one guy going for it here. But he's a pretty solid candidate.

 

Surprisingly or not surprisingly, UWO is once again dominated (in terms of contrast to other schools) by the MSSK specialties Ortho and (surprisingly) PM&R. There's something like 6-8 going for the latter. . . which is shocking because it's, well, PM&R. Internal is also EXTREMELY popular this year (way more candidates than Ortho and PM&R combined but that's to be expected as it's internal) at UWO, and gen surg has a good representation.

 

But I gotta say - I'd be shocked if ANY school took 10-12 of 16 spots in one of the small ubercompetitive specialties like Ophtho. That would mean taking 9 spots away from other schools, which is unheard of. There's just too much of an advantage given to home school applicants (in terms of having more time to make contacts and do projects with faculty from day one) for one school to take that many spots. From what you describe I'm sure a few U of T students will match at other schools, but to sugest one school would take 75% of the national ophtho spots would be unheard of.

[Guest endingsoon]

Yeah I know, that is a lot of spots, but it is big this year.

 

Internal being 'big' at UWO was not exactly what I wanted to hear, as it is one of my top choices

 

As always, some things are tough and others are not...just hope it all works out in the end.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yeah, someone the other day suggested 40!?!? of my classmates were applying to internal medicine, either as a first choice or backup.

 

The nice thing with internal, as it is a very big program, there's a lot more school to school movement. We may have 40 applications to Internal this year (I can't confirm that number btw) but I know for a fact some of them are jonesing for Toronto, Alberta, and Vancouver and probably won't be coming back to UWO. Just an observation, but it is common for the small ubercompetitive specialties at UWO (ENT, ophtho, plastics) to fill the spot or both spots with UWO grads. This is definitely not the case every year - I think the ophtho PGY-1 is from U of T, but it is a general trend I have noticed - once again, probably due to UWO students spending more time with the UWO program faculty and residents. As I've just stated, this is definitely not the case with Internal Medicine - I've met residents in Internal from all over the place.

 

But I think we've got to face it (not to be too glum) - this year isn't a great year for the match. Every UWO grad who wanted internal medicine last year got it - I believe 27 in total, and as many as who matched to family medicine in the 1st round. If the number 40 is correct, that ain't going to happen this year. But that doesn't mean most solid apps aren't going to match to Internal. . . just a few aren't. We shall see.

[Guest endingsoon]

Yeah it looks like that in Toronto as well, but I know that a lot more people are starting to apply to internal as a backup. Hopefully there are at least 10 or so people at UWO that do that as well, making the numbers closer to last year.

 

Well its all a guessing game now...won't know until the big day in March.

[Guest 1Smiley]

Thanks for the correction CaesarCornelius (I hope I spelled that right). The spelling is something I knew about but, for some reason, I can never seem to get oPHthalmology from brain to hand to paper (or on computer as you've seen). Old habits die hard... I'll definitely be more aware next time.

 

Anyway, it's interesting to find out that internal is a bit on the competitive side- it's the other area I'm quite interested in. I thought it was (almost) a sure bet.

 

I sincerely (and I mean sincerely) hope that everyone is able to end up in a specialty that will be enjoyable for the duration of your careers.

[Guest CaesarCornelius]

Sorry Smiley, I didn't mean to come across a such a jerk (re-reading my post it certainly appears that way anyway).

 

Are you doing some research in ophtho now? What area?

 

CC

[Guest marbledust]

Just out of curiousty what would make the U of T candidates so special that you assume they would take 10-12 spots across the country? Seems like a bit of a ridiculous claim when other schools will have ophtho candidates of their own who are equally strong.

[Guest 1Smiley]

Hi CC,

 

Unfortunately, there's no formal ophthalmology program at the University of Manitoba, so I'm not doing any research in that area. So, while I'm interested in it (and plan to further investigate the area) I haven't done any formal work in it. I want to make an effort because I don't want to one day look back and say I didn't try.

 

It isn't really practical for me to go away to do research in the summer either:( So, I'll probably be working doing some clinical reasearch in the area of internal med (nephrology)... What research are you doing?

 

Oh yeah, I didn't really think you came across like a jerk. Like I said, I was grateful for the correction

 

[Guest marbledust]

Doesn't U of M still run their joint ophtho program with the U of A? I don't know that much about it, but I know it is a special return-in-service program that matches outside of carms every two years or so (a classmate told me about it last summer). I know they residents do most, if not all, their ophtho rotations in Edmonton, but maybe you could hook up with the faculty involved in the program for some research leads?

[Guest endingsoon]

Yeah that was probably just me being a little bit overzealous there. I know that these candidates are all very good (ie - have a lot of research, good marks, letters, good people, lots of electives/letters, etc.)

 

I am sure that every school has there share of such people. I just would not be surprised to see a lot of these people land spots in optho.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yeah, if UWO has two spots in ophtho again this year, it wouldn't surprise me at all if one went to U of T.

 

Like I said, as far as I know, we've only got one ophtho keener though I could be wrong. I'd like to think he'd get one of the UWO spots (he's a solid candidate) but of course you never know with this game.

[Guest wassabi101]

ending soon,

 

You mentionned previously how you know someone who did a 2nd year summer elective in IM. Do you know how visiting students might go about doing summer electives during 2nd year, despite the info listed on the U of T website that electives for visiting students are only offered to clerks?

 

Thanks for any help,

 

wassabi

[Guest cheech10]

All 2nd year electives are informal (ie. not for credit like clerkship electives) while the website only refers to formal electives. To arrange electives in 2nd year, just contact the doc of your choice (or their secretary).

[Guest CaesarCornelius]

We get credit for our 1st/2nd year electives. But I think you're right though, they won't count for much.

 

CC

[Guest cheech10]

You get credit on your transcripts?

[Guest Lactic Folly]

We do as well (pass/fail).

[Guest CaesarCornelius]

Yeah we get a pass/fail from our 1st/2nd year electives. We go one day a week for the full year and have to do some sort of report or presentation at grand rounds.

 

CC

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yeah, no credit for 1st/2nd year electives at UWO - at least as far as I know.

[Guest aneliz]

There is no credit, but it is recorded on your transcript as a 'non-credit' course as of last summer. You must apply by May sometime, and pay $50 to UWO, and then you are covered by school malpractice insurance for 4 weeks of the summer. If you want to do more than 4 weeks, than you need to sign up for additional electives and pay more $$.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Wow - that is new.

 

I wonder how programs like SWORRM and NOMEC get factored into that system.

[Guest Valani9]

Whoever was asking about summer electives at UofT --

 

If you somehow manage to get yourself signed up for a formal, "elective" at UofT for the summer, be careful. UofT only allows something like 8 weeks/year for visiting students to do elective time. So basically, it could cut into your clerkship elective time.

 

It's bloody ridiculous, but that's how it goes.

[Guest RedBull33]

So, does anyone else have any experience with these pre-clerkship electives?

 

Where else in Canada are they offered? I noticed that UWO (as mentioned) and also Memorial have programs for this.

[Guest blinknoodle]

Ottawa has pre-clerkship electives too, but I think they are only open to Ottawa U students... see www.medicine.uottawa.ca/e...dents.html

 

About the insurance for the summer at UWO, what happens if I want to do a half-day each week (since I'm working full-time)? Would I still need to pay for the $50 course for each month??

[Guest RedBull33]

Thanks blinknoodle.

 

My goal this summer (between med1 and med2) is really to get some clinical exposure to BEGIN thinking about what specialties I may be interested in. That is probably the most important thing for me, as I have decent research experience, and will also be traveling.

 

From what I've heard, this will be our only true summer for quite a long time