Canadian doing DO in US

[Oly]

There seems to be only one sad convesation about this topic.

It would be great to hear from Canadians that are taking this route.

 

I am completely committed to DO, I love what osteopathy stands for and I hate allopathy, I refuse to do a MD, if it turns out that a DO is not a worthy path for a Canadian to take, I rather not be a doctor at all. (I am currently in my 3rd year of a kinesiology undergrad at york)

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[KennethToronto]

Do you care to elaborate exactly what you love about osteopathy so much, and what you find so reprehensible about allopathic medicine that you would choose not to study medicine at all?

[Alastriss]

I find it very hard to believe that a DO committed individual would say no to MD. Although the philosophies are very different, there is just too much overlap between them for you to be strongly 'yes' to one and strongly 'no' to another.

[Flame219]

That's true. From what I've read on SDN from Canadians studying DO in the US, they certainly did not take that strong of a repulsive attitude towards allopathy, if anything it's what approach they preferred more rather than what keeps them out. I'm kinda curious too, what is your reason for such a negative reaction?

 

fyi, on SDN there are a number of Canadians taking DO in the US in the Canadian forum, so maybe you can take a look!

[Oly]

First of all, I love my MD. They are not all bad.

I never wanted to be a doctor because I don't like to think in reductionist terms. Magic bullets to solve unhappiness, stomach pain and lack of friends, it's just not my style. I like the hands on approach.

I was interested in getting involved in health policies because I wanted to create change in the world, so doctors would care, and spend time with their patients. I wanted doctors to take into consideration the social, psychological (etc etc) factors of a person, rather than look at them as a problem and fix the problem.

Turns out, they already exist, voila DO, everything I ever stood for.

 

PS. my alternate plan is Physiotherapy

[Alastriss]

First of all, I love my MD. They are not all bad.

I never wanted to be a doctor because I don't like to think in reductionist terms. Magic bullets to solve unhappiness, stomach pain and lack of friends, it's just not my style. I like the hands on approach.

I was interested in getting involved in health policies because I wanted to create change in the world, so doctors would care, and spend time with their patients. I wanted doctors to take into consideration the social, psychological (etc etc) factors of a person, rather than look at them as a problem and fix the problem.

Turns out, they already exist, voila DO, everything I ever stood for.

 

PS. my alternate plan is Physiotherapy

 

Uhh..

 

Getting involved in health policy- its called an MD/MPH

 

Physicians do a lot more than jsut give out Magic bullets. They can refer patients to seek Cognitive Based Therapy (If by unhappiness you mean depression) for example. Depending on certain specialties you can get a ton of patient care. Perhaps you should take a look at Physiatry. Or consider Georgetown for meds.

 

Again, medicine is about treating the patient not the problem. Perhaps in some way what you are saying may be true for older generation docs, but the paradigm now is definitely shifting to patient centred care, which although is working to facilitate interprofessional collaboration, is also addressing all the things you feel are "missing" in allopathic medicine.

[schnauzr]

I never wanted to be a doctor because I don't like to think in reductionist terms.

 

I find this quote really refreshing after months of "I want to be a doctor because blah...blah..."

[Dayne67]

There seems to be only one sad convesation about this topic.

It would be great to hear from Canadians that are taking this route.

 

I am completely committed to DO, I love what osteopathy stands for and I hate allopathy, I refuse to do a MD, if it turns out that a DO is not a worthy path for a Canadian to take, I rather not be a doctor at all. (I am currently in my 3rd year of a kinesiology undergrad at york)

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

You probably already know this, but there are very few practicing DO's in Canada. To many, it seems like unchartered territory. And when you are spending at least $250,000 (US) on your education, it makes people hesitant to go through an uncertain route. Then, there are some ignorant people that perceive DO's as glorified chiropractors - which obviously isn't true. The truth is that unless you frequent SDN, nearly all Canadian premeds have no idea was a DO is.

 

One thing that I can't figure out is why some students are so quick to move to the Carribean or Ireland when they can't get into medicine in North America? Why not do a DO instead? It certainly seems like a relatively better option to landing a US MD residency IMO - considering that you'll be spending just as much elsewhere.

[token]

Just want to reiterate two obvious things: DOs in practice don't do anything that MDs don't do, and, it will be infinitely more difficult to perform these equivalent functions as a DO in Canada than as an MD.

 

If you're really looking for a more holistic approach to treating disease look into naturopathy. Seriously.

[xylem29]

Just want to reiterate two obvious things: DOs in practice don't do anything that MDs don't do, and, it will be infinitely more difficult to perform these equivalent functions as a DO in Canada than as an MD.

 

If you're really looking for a more holistic approach to treating disease look into naturopathy. Seriously.

 

Right, looks like the OP needs to explore osteopathic medicine a little more.

 

Also - fyi: a holistic approach towards patient care is what is being taught. Google "patient centered" care. It's not so much of a philosophy difference as it is having an extra (contentious) set of therapy options (ie. OMM). Taking the patient's ethincity, gender, age, personal experiences, family background, education level, etc is something that all health-care professionals are being taught to do - so this isn't a good reason to want to do osteopathic medicine nor is it a good reason to hate allopathic.

 

More like homeopathy...

[Oly]

I value your imput, but you are evading the topic of the thread.

Does anyone have valuble information to share ragarding the experiences of being a Canadian in OD?

[token]

I don't know if anyone can describe it to you, because it's very rare. I think you would be better off asking doctors you know if they know any DOs you can shadow.The COA (like AOA) has and continued to struggle to obtain practice rights for DOs. And they're not doing this to expand the scope of care provided by medical professionals. They're doing it so DOs will be trusted to do the exact same thing, nothing more or less than MDs, a cause I think is quite worthy given the doctor shortage.

 

The reason why it has been so difficult for it to take hold in Canada is because for decades there was no oversight from a licensing body. There were unfortunately a lot of people using the osteopath label who weren't even doctors. It's funny because, on the one hand you have the allopathic monopoly equating osteopathy to naturo or homeopathy, maybe even chiropractics, while you have actual DOs trying to downplay the role of OMM to gain more respect. Then you have a pre-med with a genuine interest in new approaches to medicine, again trying to attribute certain ideals to an osteopathic education that just aren't there.

 

I think it would help you get a frank picture from someone in the field, good luck.

[xylem29]

I value your imput, but you are evading the topic of the thread.

Does anyone have valuble information to share ragarding the experiences of being a Canadian in OD?

 

Ok - this is how it works, I've looked into 2 years ago as I was contemplating DO as well.

 

Basically, there is no such thing as practicing as a pure osteopathic physician like how they have it in the US. You can have osteopathic familty physicians, osteopathic internists, osteopathic nephrologists, etc in the US. The path involves going to DO school, writing the DO exams and completing a DO residency. You can incorporate OMM into your practice.

 

Or you can go to DO school, write the MD exams and complete an MD residency and become licensed to practice allopathic medicine - whether you can incorporate OMM into your practice, I am not sure - I think you can. Point is, this route, makes you equivalent to an MD.

 

In Canada, you only have two choices:

 

1) DO school, DO exams, DO residency (US), come back and you can only practice as an osteopath, not osteopathic physician.

 

2) DO school, MD exams (USMLE), MD residency (US or Canada - only certain provinces and pretty much only family medicine, maybe IM are open to you) and you can then practice as an allopathic physician with a DO degree. There are a fair number of them in ON, a few are in the GTA - all are family phyisicians (CCFP), they are listed in the CPSO physician search. If you are not from ON, just perform a search in your province's college of physicians and surgeons and look for practicing DOs. Go ask them what it is like. I can tell you that it is no different from an MD.

[Alastriss]

Right, looks like the OP needs to explore osteopathic medicine a little more.

 

Also - fyi: a holistic approach towards patient care is what is being taught. Google "patient centered" care. It's not so much of a philosophy difference as it is having an extra (contentious) set of therapy options (ie. OMM). Taking the patient's ethincity, gender, age, personal experiences, family background, education level, etc is something that all health-care professionals are being taught to do - so this isn't a good reason to want to do osteopathic medicine nor is it a good reason to hate allopathic.

 

More like homeopathy...

 

hah! what I said! we're on the same page.

 

You know what though, i heard that all DOs once in their second year have a phase where they hate MDs, or so it is on sdn.

 

OP go to the canada forums. If I am not mistaken, as a DO you will ONLY be limited to the H1B visa as the gov't of canada does not "need" DOs. Im not sure but you should check.

[xylem29]

hah! what I said! we're on the same page.

 

You know what though, i heard that all DOs once in their second year have a phase where they hate MDs, or so it is on sdn.

 

OP go to the canada forums. If I am not mistaken, as a DO you will ONLY be limited to the H1B visa as the gov't of canada does not "need" DOs. Im not sure but you should check.

 

Yea, it's b/c there is a lot of DO propaganda built into the curriculum. Not a joke either. They learn about the history of osteopathic medicine, the founder, etc...

[Oly]

I started a new one because yours was old, and because you specifically said that you would no longer be answering questions about DO (due to your biased opinion)... Your words not mine.

 

I wanted a fresh perspective. I know all about the d.o. diploma, that is not what I am interested in. I was looking only for information regarding doing a DO in US. Xylem was the only one to explicitly explain anything about it.

[Mashmetoo]

So Oly, have you started applying to DO schools yet?

[Oly]

Turns out it wasn't such a great idea. I think I would like to go for Mcgill.

[med.student]

i hope you have applied already. since you have made up your mind, now you have to move forward.

[Mashmetoo]

Turns out it wasn't such a great idea. I think I would like to go for Mcgill.

 

lol.. that was a pretty quick change of heart! a couple days ago, it was DO or nothing.. what made you change your mind?

[Oly]

I previously wasn't interested in medicine, I wanted to do physiotherapy. My interest was sparked by DO. So I researched it for the past week, every day, for many many hours (York is on strike). I visited the websites of dozens of schools, read the US and the Canadian premed forums, talked to my parents etc. Anyway, these few days to me were the equivalent to a years worth of thinking. I'm still thinking, I haven't finalized anything, maybe I'll just crawl back to my physio hole.

 

It's funny I came here for advice, I was surprised, for a bunch of doctors-to-be this community is quite judgemental and cold. Pretty sarcastic and rude.

[Mashmetoo]

I previously wasn't interested in medicine, I wanted to do physiotherapy. My interest was sparked by DO. So I researched it for the past week, every day, for many many hours (York is on strike). I visited the websites of dozens of schools, read the US and the Canadian premed forums, talked to my parents etc. Anyway, these few days to me were the equivalent to a years worth of thinking. I'm still thinking, I haven't finalized anything, maybe I'll just crawl back to my physio hole.

 

It's funny I came here for advice, I was surprised, for a bunch of doctors-to-be this community is quite judgemental and cold. Pretty sarcastic and rude.

 

I wasn't trying to be rude, I was just surprised at your rather quick "change of heart", I've applied for DO, so I'm not judging

[Oly]

mash, I didn't mean you. I meant in general. (Esp. see my thread in the general premed section)

[sfinch]

There is no philosophy for modern allopathic medicine other than evidence based medicine. If natural herbs are proven to be of benefit, it becomes a part of allopathic medicine. In fact, there is nothing in allopathic medicine that is against global healing, or preventative medicine, or treating patients as a 'whole'. There are TONS of family doctors that are holistic in their approach with patients.

 

Simply put, Allopathic medicine is basically evidence based treatment (or when evidence is not available, the best physiologically reasoned treatment). There is no 'brainwashing' in medical school about the allopathic approach. The approach is one based on science, common sense, and evidence.

 

Ostepathic medicine is basically allopathic medicine with some hoky stuff similar to chiropractic. Most people getting DOs are getting it because they cannot get into MD schools - (evidenced by the average gpas and mcats of these students). They mostly don't care for their 'manipulation treatments' and behave like regular MDs. NDs, chriropractic, HDs are of course much worse. All these programs brainwash their students about the evils of MD medicine, and how their programs are equal and better than traditional medicine. They have an agenda.

 

 

Sometimes these alternative

[keith_015]

There is no philosophy for modern allopathic medicine other than evidence based medicine. If natural herbs are proven to be of benefit, it becomes a part of allopathic medicine. In fact, there is nothing in allopathic medicine that is against global healing, or preventative medicine, or treating patients as a 'whole'. There are TONS of family doctors that are holistic in their approach with patients.

 

Simply put, Allopathic medicine is basically evidence based treatment (or when evidence is not available, the best physiologically reasoned treatment). There is no 'brainwashing' in medical school about the allopathic approach. The approach is one based on science, common sense, and evidence.

 

Ostepathic medicine is basically allopathic medicine with some hoky stuff similar to chiropractic. Most people getting DOs are getting it because they cannot get into MD schools - (evidenced by the average gpas and mcats of these students). They mostly don't care for their 'manipulation treatments' and behave like regular MDs. NDs, chriropractic, HDs are of course much worse. All these programs brainwash their students about the evils of MD medicine, and how their programs are equal and better than traditional medicine. They have an agenda.

 

 

Sometimes these alternative

 

Good lord...why the hell did this suddenly get rehashed out of the blue?

 

I might as well comment to help those considering it. While DOs aren't as well respected in the US, they can get the same prescribing practices as MDs and have the opportunity to do residencies. Statistics show that DOs are at a disadvantage when it comes to matching in the US and don't fair as well as MDs on the USMLE tests. It may be a little bit awkward doing the "manipulation" side of medicine as well as "whole body treatment", but one good thing Osteo preaches is prevention, which allo schools are slowly moving more towards. In the US, credentials are everything including the undergrad school you went to, your degree, etc. In Canada, we don't seem as concerned with whether or not you have a MD or DO, so likely the stigma of having a DO won't be felt as much here. The biggest hurdle you would have to climb is an extra Evaluation Exam by the Medical Council of Canada that US trained allos don't have to do.

 

For anybody considering primary care, and not concerned with research, osteo schools may be for you. Don't let anybody discourage you from being Osteo rather than Allo.