No research, no hospital experience. Am I doomed?

[Rach]

So I'm starting to think about my US applications for the summer, and I'm freaking out. I have done ZERO research, and have no actual hospital experience. Here is a short-list of my stats/ECs:

 

-URM

-3.75 cGPA, scienceGPA will likely be the same (unsure of Uguelph's grade conversion)

-Degree completed in the US, have taken 1.5 extra years in Canada

-Full tennis scholarship (worth 100k) at NCAA I school (US)-4 years-probably took up on avg 25-30hrs/week.

-Worked full-time each summer during degree years at various jobs

-Worked 2 full-time years in mental health field after graduating (not a hospital)

-1 full-time year at vet clinic assisting in surgeries among other things

-Big sister since September

-Run an after-school program for pre-teen girls since September

-Taking music lessons

-Various awards in university and a bunch of random volunteer things we did as a team on a regular basis

-Fluent in English, French, Spanish

-Have lived in 4 countries and have traveled extensively

 

I'm currently scheduled to take the MCAT in April but will likely push it back to June 18th.

I'm thinking I need to get some hospital/shadowing experience ASAP. My father lives in Panama and I might be able to get down there to shadow at a hospital for a month, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to lose a month of MCAT studying for that. Do you guys think it's necessary in terms of improving my chances for acceptance to US (and Canadian) schools?

 

Any input on my stats is welcome, thanks for reading.

[Halcyon]

Rach,

 

PM me if you want.

 

H

[Alastriss]

So I'm starting to think about my US applications for the summer, and I'm freaking out. I have done ZERO research, and have no actual hospital experience. Here is a short-list of my stats/ECs:

 

-URM

-3.7ish cGPA, scienceGPA will likely be in the mid-3.8 (unsure of Uguelph's grade conversion)

-Degree completed in the US, have taken 1.5 extra years in Canada

-Full tennis scholarship (worth 100k) at NCAA I school (US)

-Worked full-time each summer during degree years at various jobs

-Worked 2 full-time years in mental health field after graduating (not a hospital)

-1 full-time year at vet clinic assisting in surgeries among other things

-Big sister since September

-Run an after-school program for pre-teen girls since September

-Taking music lessons

-Various awards in university and a bunch of random volunteer things we did as a team on a regular basis

-Fluent in English, French, Spanish

-Have lived in 4 countries and have traveled extensively

 

I'm currently scheduled to take the MCAT in April but will likely push it back to June 18th.

I'm thinking I need to get some hospital/shadowing experience ASAP. My father lives in Panama and I might be able to get down there to shadow at a hospital for a month, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to lose a month of MCAT studying for that. Do you guys think it's necessary in terms of improving my chances for acceptance to US (and Canadian) schools?

 

Any input on my stats is welcome, thanks for reading.

 

 

You know what, I started reading and hit URM. Then I stopped reading. URM is as close as you can get to a "get into medschool free" pass so you will be ok. Try to get hospital volunteering from now till application time.

[token]

No research is fine, no clinical experience isn't though - don't underestimate its importance. You have some amazing ECs, but it won't matter if they don't think you've explored the profession enough. Did your mental health work involve interaction with patients at all?

 

Even if you could start volunteering 2-3 hours a week, starting now, you'll be in a much better position. Shadowing is nice, but even doing some volunteering is okay as long as you're in a hospital and near sick people.

[Halcyon]

....as long as you're in a hospital and near sick people.

 

Giggle, giggle....

[Rach]

No research is fine, no clinical experience isn't though - don't underestimate its importance. You have some amazing ECs, but it won't matter if they don't think you've explored the profession enough. Did your mental health work involve interaction with patients at all?

 

Even if you could start volunteering 2-3 hours a week, starting now, you'll be in a much better position. Shadowing is nice, but even doing some volunteering is okay as long as you're in a hospital and near sick people.

 

Well I did a placement for 4 months in uni that involved daily visits to severely mentally ill people in their home. Making sure they were in a good state of mind, bringing them meds, just chatting about symptoms and visiting with them.

 

Then the 2 year full-time job was one-on-one with people (17-21years) who had mental illnesses or disabilities but were trying to attend college and vocational schools. It was kind of a life-skills position to help them live on their own.

 

I have looked into volunteering at the local hospital, but the website says it takes ~3months to get a position and you have to do it for a year minimum. That's why I thought about Panama. Could probably get some shadowing + volunteer work done on full-time basis for a month though I wish I didn't have to travel. Living with my dad for a month should merit a few extra points on its own. lol

[token]

Well I did a placement for 4 months in uni that involved daily visits to severely mentally ill people in their home. Making sure they were in a good state of mind, bringing them meds, just chatting about symptoms and visiting with them.

 

Then the 2 year full-time job was one-on-one with people (17-21years) who had mental illnesses or disabilities but were trying to attend college and vocational schools. It was kind of a life-skills position to help them live on their own.

 

I have looked into volunteering at the local hospital, but the website says it takes ~3months to get a position and you have to do it for a year minimum. That's why I thought about Panama. Could probably get some shadowing + volunteer work done on full-time basis for a month.

Ah, okay, you're actually in much better shape. The home visit thing definitely counts as clinical experience in my mind, and most pre-meds don't have any experience with the mentally ill so that's unique. I'm guessing the hospital you're thinking of is close to your uni, so there's way more demand from premeds than there are positions. But smaller non-university affiliated hospitals may be looking for help.

 

Alastriss is right, the URM thing will make your life infinitely easier however not even that could overcome NO clinical experience. You might be able ot get by with what you have though (you can PM me if you like).

[THX]

Being an URM may have an impact even if you are an international applicant ?

 

Yes and I agree with Alastriss, being URM is like winning the med school lottery. If you are URM, it's probably the only time where being a minority will be beneficial to your career - so grease it until it is dry.

 

Btw, to OP, you still need clinical experience otherwise the adcoms won't be able to answer the all important question of 'does this person know what doctor's do?'

[Rach]

Yes and I agree with Alastriss, being URM is like winning the med school lottery. If you are URM, it's probably the only time where being a minority will be beneficial to your career - so grease it until it is dry.

 

Btw, to OP, you still need clinical experience otherwise the adcoms won't be able to answer the all important question of 'does this person know what doctor's do?'

 

I agree, for once it's a good thing, I'll take it!

Just as an aside, where in the application can you mention the URM thing? Is it a checkbox, or is it only revealed if you make a point to mention it in your essay,etc?

 

I'll definitely try to get better clinical experience between now and June.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.

[japlanet]

Out of curiosity, what is URM?

[ontariostudent]

It's an under-represented in medicine. Canadian schools only take URM status into consideration in the case of aboriginals.

[Classic]

URM = Under Represented in Medicine.

 

And Rach, I think it's a checkbox (but I could be wrong because I completely ignored it)

[Rach]

Well I just contacted a bunch of hospitals in the area with no luck (seems the earliest I could get in would be May).

I have always chosen volunteer work based on what I would enjoy, and what would be the greatest contribution. Seems this is coming back to bite me!

 

Are nursing homes the next step? I will try to contact my family doctor and see if he will allow me to shadow, but I think I need something a bit more substantial. Any suggestions?

[Halcyon]

Rach,

 

Sorry to hear that! Hospital experience is great, so maybe go for May anyway. Shadowing will be awesome too.

 

You've got a lot of good ECs, so in the meantime, maybe worry about your MCAT and do all the application prep' for getting a volunteer position rolling asap (in May or whenever they'll take you).

 

Good luck!

 

H

[Alastriss]

Well I just contacted a bunch of hospitals in the area with no luck (seems the earliest I could get in would be May).

I have always chosen volunteer work based on what I would enjoy, and what would be the greatest contribution. Seems this is coming back to bite me!

 

Are nursing homes the next step? I will try to contact my family doctor and see if he will allow me to shadow, but I think I need something a bit more substantial. Any suggestions?

 

You need to be around a patient and around a doctor. I suggest you try to contact local clinics and be PUSHY (but not too pushy).

[Rach]

You know what, I started reading and hit URM. Then I stopped reading. URM is as close as you can get to a "get into medschool free" pass so you will be ok.

 

 

Not sure where to update with this info, but hopefully this helps anyone using the search function. For other URMs who might be wondering what effect that will have on your apps, I have recently read that it will not give you the same benefit as applying as an American URM. It might depend on the school but based on what I have been told from people who know the process, URMs who are Canadian are thrown into the "international" pool which takes precedence over the URM status.

[THX]

Not sure where to update with this info, but hopefully this helps anyone using the search function. For other URMs who might be wondering what effect that will have on your apps, I have recently read that it will not give you the same benefit as applying as an American URM. It might depend on the school but based on what I have been told from people who know the process, URMs who are Canadian are thrown into the "international" pool which takes precedence over the URM status.

While this may be true, don't forget that many schools consider Canadians as OOS. Therefore you won't be a Canadian URM there, but rather a OOS URM.

 

Regardless, a International URM should still have it a little better over a regular international applicant. It will all work out in the end.

[token]

Being URM should trump your international status. It's a pretty big advantage...

 

From the moment you submit your AMCAS you'll start getting recruitment e-mails from top schools you didn't even apply to or think you were competitive for. You'll be among the first to get invited to interview. At your interviews, they will make sure you're interviewed by someone who has the exact same complexion as you (to make you feel "comfortable"). After you're accepted you'll be eligible for special scholarships and housing options, you'll have people e-mailing and calling you all the time to chat up their school, and they'll be flying you back down for special dinners.

 

The only school I know of that doesn't consider internationals as URM is MSSM. But for every Sinai there are a dozen more schools that will be desperate to have you as part of their class.

[Rach]

While this may be true, don't forget that many schools consider Canadians as OOS. Therefore you won't be a Canadian URM there, but rather a OOS URM.

 

Regardless, a International URM should still have it a little better over a regular international applicant. It will all work out in the end.

 

One can hope! Either way I don't think it's a big deal. I just wanted to point out to people who might have read this thread and thought their URM status meant they were golden that it isn't quite as straightforward as it might be for a US citizen.

[Rach]

Being URM should trump your international status. It's a pretty big advantage...

 

From the moment you submit your AMCAS you'll start getting recruitment e-mails from top schools you didn't even apply to or think you were competitive for. You'll be among the first to get invited to interview. At your interviews, they will make sure you're interviewed by someone who has the exact same complexion as you (to make you feel "comfortable"). After you're accepted you'll be eligible for special scholarships and housing options, you'll have people e-mailing and calling you all the time to chat up their school, and they'll be flying you back down for special dinners.

 

The only school I know of that doesn't consider internationals as URM is MSSM. But for every Sinai there are a dozen more schools that will be desperate to have you as part of their class.

 

WOW. Had no idea any of this took place. There seems to be a lot of differing info re: URM vs International and I thought I had finally found reliable info, guess not. I hope you are right token, free dinner sounds good. lol

 

Regardless of how schools view URM status, I guess there is no point in wondering about it since we all have to put our best foot forward and do our best.

[Kinase]

Hey guys, given the discussion on this thread, I thought that I could share that one with you. I have emailed URM@aamc.org some time ago to ask a question regarding the URM - international student issue. (sorry for my english, it's my third language)

 

Hi,

 

I'm an ********-canadian student thinking about applying to american medical schools. Would I qualify for affirmative action as an URM, or would my international status take precedence ?

 

Thank you,

******* ********

 

Here is the response:

 

 

Dear ********:

 

My apologies for the tardy reply. Nonetheless, I hope the following information will be of help.

 

 

The AAMC no longer has a definition of "underrepresented minorities (URM)," which previously consisted of four designated racial and ethnic groups (Blacks, Mexican Americans, mainland Puerto Ricans, and Native Americans). In June 2003, the AAMC adopted the current definition of "underrepresented in medicine." An important feature of the AAMC's current definition is that it no longer identifies specific populations as underrepresented or as minorities. Rather, it provides a tool for medical schools to build and assess institutional diversity in which race and ethnicity can be components among other components, such as personal attributes, experiential factors, and demographics. Each medical school decides for itself what its policies are with respect to diversity, including race and ethnicity. For example, a particular institution may decide based on its own mission and goals that students who are ********-Canadian would serve the diversity interests of the school. The same school may decide that, in addition, its diversity interests are served by encouraging enrollments of students from traditionally underrepresented groups, such as African Americans, Latinos, and Native Americans. Another school might have completely different missions and goals and, therefore, different policies.

 

The AAMC has a URL on the definition. You can find it at: http://www.aamc.org/meded/urm/start.htm

 

I hope this information is helpful. If you have any further questions, don’t hesitate to get in touch with me. All the best.

 

 

Ruth Beer Bletzinger

Director, Special Projects

Diversity Policy and Programs

AAMC

2450 N Street, NW

Washington, DC 20037

Tel: 202-828-0585

[nikrimsky1]

Being URM should trump your international status. It's a pretty big advantage...

 

From the moment you submit your AMCAS you'll start getting recruitment e-mails from top schools you didn't even apply to or think you were competitive for. You'll be among the first to get invited to interview. At your interviews, they will make sure you're interviewed by someone who has the exact same complexion as you (to make you feel "comfortable"). After you're accepted you'll be eligible for special scholarships and housing options, you'll have people e-mailing and calling you all the time to chat up their school, and they'll be flying you back down for special dinners.

 

The only school I know of that doesn't consider internationals as URM is MSSM. But for every Sinai there are a dozen more schools that will be desperate to have you as part of their class.

 

 

Ok. So there's a small kernel of truth to what was said. Firstly, for disclosure, i'll state that yes, i am what one could say is "URM". That being said, I'm pretty sure that this is not the reason one is let into med school. That would be pretty irresponsible. But i'll get into that in a moment.

 

There is a kernel of truth to what was said. After applying i did get a few emails from schools trying to recruit me. (I suppose i checked the URM box.) Weirdest thing EVER. After slugging through a pretty hard program at U T as an undergrad, I never expected to have RANDOM attention paid to me during the app cycle. But, I never got emails from 'top' programs. Still average programs that I thought I could get accepted at.

 

Funny thing-one school emailed me, then, being all inquisitive, I checked their site and found out that they didn't accept Canadians. Fantastic. I promptly notified them. They were mortified and apologized (not like I jumped down their collective throat or anything.)

 

ANYHOW, all of my interviewers were white guys, except for a very gracious Jewish gentleman (prof), and one black dean. (Just exploding the "you'll be interviewed by someone of same complexion" meme.) One interviewer was annoyed of my existence. Prob not in a racist way, just a cantankerous onery kind of way. Others went more-or-less ok. I think this was since I was my normal delightful self and i prepped on local issues (even read a boring book on health policy and kept up with other current city/state/and country issues, which I think they were impressed by). I think the bass voice def helped as well:) .

 

I'm kinda hoping that I do get flown down to the schools that I interviewed/accepted at for a nice meal. That would be GREAT. Pretty sure it won't happen though. Mostly since I'm only gonna be an average matriculant at these schools (~3.7/31, good ECs, 4 letters, good communication skills) (also ave for US in general). Oh yeah. And I applied really (REALLY) early.. like the 1st week possible.

 

Now, I was always wary about being at these interviews as an "URM". I don't coast on being black. I don't cry "poor me". I have a strange feeling that a similar sentiment that is implied on these message boards will follow me through med school, residency, and then practice. I guess i'm gonna hafta somehow pull a Ben Carson. Just minus the scalpel in grey matter.

 

Just to be short, do your best when applying. Do it early. Do your best in undergrad. And sell your application to your interviewer.

 

Best of luck.

 

nik

[GolferGrl]

So I'm starting to think about my US applications for the summer, and I'm freaking out. I have done ZERO research, and have no actual hospital experience. Here is a short-list of my stats/ECs:

 

-URM

-3.75 cGPA, scienceGPA will likely be the same (unsure of Uguelph's grade conversion)

-Degree completed in the US, have taken 1.5 extra years in Canada

-Full tennis scholarship (worth 100k) at NCAA I school (US)-4 years-probably took up on avg 25-30hrs/week.

-Worked full-time each summer during degree years at various jobs

-Worked 2 full-time years in mental health field after graduating (not a hospital)

-1 full-time year at vet clinic assisting in surgeries among other things

-Big sister since September

-Run an after-school program for pre-teen girls since September

-Taking music lessons

-Various awards in university and a bunch of random volunteer things we did as a team on a regular basis

-Fluent in English, French, Spanish

-Have lived in 4 countries and have traveled extensively

 

I'm currently scheduled to take the MCAT in April but will likely push it back to June 18th.

I'm thinking I need to get some hospital/shadowing experience ASAP. My father lives in Panama and I might be able to get down there to shadow at a hospital for a month, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to lose a month of MCAT studying for that. Do you guys think it's necessary in terms of improving my chances for acceptance to US (and Canadian) schools?

 

Any input on my stats is welcome, thanks for reading.

 

I was wondering whether you ultimately got accepted into medical school and your experiences.

 

I am on an athletic scholarship playing D-1 golf, have a 4.0 GPA and have completed all my pre-med pre-requisites. I'm just completing my sophomore year and will apply to schools in Canada and eventually in the States. I have decent EC's doing volunteer ambulance and tutoring disadvantaged students. I have no research yet with my busy schedule but hope to get some in next summer. I have decent LOR's.

 

What I am interested in knowing is did attending school in the US have a negative or positive impact in your applications/interviews. Also how did the athletics figure into the interviews? I'm All Conference and an NGCA All American Scholar athlete which may help my cause.

[Rach]

I was wondering whether you ultimately got accepted into medical school and your experiences.

 

I am on an athletic scholarship playing D-1 golf, have a 4.0 GPA and have completed all my pre-med pre-requisites. I'm just completing my sophomore year and will apply to schools in Canada and eventually in the States. I have decent EC's doing volunteer ambulance and tutoring disadvantaged students. I have no research yet with my busy schedule but hope to get some in next summer. I have decent LOR's.

 

What I am interested in knowing is did attending school in the US have a negative or positive impact in your applications/interviews. Also how did the athletics figure into the interviews? I'm All Conference and an NGCA All American Scholar athlete which may help my cause.

 

I did have some success this cycle though I'm still waiting on 3 schools to accept/reject me. Being an NCAA 1 athlete came up at every interview and interviewers were pretty impressed with the fact that I received a full scholarship each year. I'm not sure how competitive or time-consuming golf is, but of course it will look good no matter what. I was also an all-american scholar and a bunch of other crap, honestly I don't think those awards mean anything. At least no one ever mentioned those to me.

 

Being a US grad was a plus. I could more easily answer the "why US" questions and actually mean what I was saying.

 

FWIW, with the things we have in common (in the end I did not get URM consideration so you don't have to worry about that), it seems you'll have a great chance at getting into a few (or many) schools if you keep up your grades and volunteer stuff. From interview responses, it seems interviewers were pretty impressed with how busy I was in uni (school, tennis, jobs, tons of volunteer stuff), so make sure you stay on top of things and keep busy.

All in all, I think you'll be fine. Good luck!

 

ETA: this thread is pretty old so for the sake of it reflecting my real situation I just want to add that I did end up getting tons of hospital volunteer hours in (I think I have about 300 hours now which is more than necessary). That paired with physician shadowing and my 2.5 years working in the mental health field, I didn't have anyone questioning my clinical experience.

[GolferGrl]

Thanks for getting back to me Rach. Golf when in season takes up the entire weekends Friday to Sunday night since we travel and play over 3 days with each round about 6 hours. We practice another 10 hours per week in season. The season runs September to November and March to May. Off season it is the usual 20 hours per week. It is pretty time consuming and fairly competitive but not like the big time sports obviously.

 

How did you find the Canadian med school attitudes towards taking a degree in the States and did they care about the athletics? I actually believe I will be looked upon more favorably by US schools as it appears you were. Good luck, do you know where you will go?