Guest shanze Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 HI. I just wanted to ask the people on this board if they know or have any idea, of how U of T (or any other university) would look upon a situation like mine. I'm finishing my 3rd year and I want to apply to med school. My marks are not that great and as I have been reading on this board, I understand that marks do not play that big of a part is their acceptance. Well not as much as some people make it to be. However my marks do not meet the cut off GPA (it's close but not exact:( ), but they have been on an uprising cycle. My first two years went realy bad but this year I am getting 4.0 avg. I have pulled up my mark from 70s in 1st year to around 80 in 2nd year and over 90s in 3rd.. even got one 98:p . On the percentage scale they do meet the cutoff but not on a GPA scale. I was wondering how they would look at this? Also when they get your application do they see all of your marks or do they see just the gpa for them or just the overall gpa. Thanks a bunch:b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JSS02 Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 They can see all of your individual marks. You have to enter all of them on your OMSAS application, and send them official transcripts. Your percent average doesn't really mean anything - they only care about your GPA according to the OMSAS scale. As for what each university does about your situation, it varies according to the school. According to the current U of T admissions website they'll drop your worst 3.0 full credit equivalents (can be from any combination of school years) if you apply in 4th year and have maintained a full course load each year. I don't think U of T counts 3rd year marks more than 1st year marks, etc... Here at Western they count your best year only (in the GPA portion of your application) when choosing applicants for interviews. It must reach the cutoff for that year (this year it was 3.70). If you get in, you'll need at least one other year (can be the year you apply) that also meets the cutoff, otherwise you can lose your spot. For the remaining 3 Ontario schools I can only tell you (with certainty) how it was when I applied last year. They may have changed, but I think they're about the same... Queen's counted your most recent 2 years, or all your years (whichever is better). Ottawa also had a good weighting formula for someone in your situation: (3rd year X 3 + 2nd year X 2 + 1st year) / 6 Mac counted all of the courses that you've taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Hi Shanze, My situtation is somewhat similar to yours. I got very poor grades in my first year, but pulled them up substantially in subsequent years. I have been accepted to U of T, so it certainly CAN be done! I don't want to give you the impression that those first-year grades won't matter, though. When I applied, I took full advantage of the weighting scheme to drop basically all my poor grades. And then I got asked about them in my interviews. They don't ever go away, and they make the game a little harder (as they should! we screwed up, right?), but they shouldn't keep you from your ultimate goals. The situation is very different at other Ontario schools, though, as JSS wrote. If you're applying in fourth year, and you only got low grades in first year, then your WEIGHTED gpa should meet their cutoff, no? peachy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shanze Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 I am aware of the U of T system and I have included the fact that they drop 3 full courses if you apply in 3rd year or 4 full courses if you apply in 4th. But even with that included I'm still barely around the cut off line. I'm really determined to continue to med school (I'm determined now but as you can tell from my marks I didn't care that much the first two years). And right now everything seems lost to me. Those stupid two years are bringing me down and there's nothing I can do about it. (I hate to show them to anyone and I don't like applying anywhere that requires your transcript). Next year is my 4th year and I don't know what to do after that. I thought about dental school as my other option but I hear they stress on high gpa more than med school, so I'm having doubts about that. I thought of taking summer courses to bring my gpa up, but U of T doesn't include summer courses in gpa calculation. And I heard that even after you got in med school your undergraduate marks are still going to appear on your transcript. shoot!! seems no way for me to get rid of them. What would you guys do if you were in my situation and you really wanted to get. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Shanze, Your post is a little confusing. Are you asking (1) how you can get rid of your crummy grades or (2) how you can get into medical school? Because the answer to (1) is that you're not gonna be able to get rid of them. Live with it. The answer to (2) is that you can certainly get into medical school, but that medical school might not be U of T as a fourth-year undergrad. It might be another school in Ontario or elsewhere, and it might be after a fifth year of undergrad, a master's, or whatever else. There are a lot of inspiring people on this board who did poorly in their undergrads and have spent a great deal of time making up for it. peachy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shanze Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 sorry for the confusion... Yeah you're right. As much as I would like to get rid of my marks I know that it's impossible. But I wanted to know what I could do from here that could help me get in med school. And can you elaborate on your second answer. The part about fifth year undergrad and masters, etc... Thanks peachy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Okay, then. Here's a brief overview. You should look through the old threads, each of these suggestions has been discussed at length. At this point, you've finished third year. If you definitely want to go to medical school, you should apply next year as widely as possible. Then, if you don't get in next year, the typical route would be either to do an extra year of undergrad or to start a master's degree. 1. Look into other schools. Make a list of all the schools that you would be interested in going to, then go to their websites, get the scoop on their requirements, and see which schools you would be competitive for. Requirements vary widely. If you have one 4.0 year and your MCATs are good enough, you will get an interview at many Canadian schools, as well as American ones. I am not sure why you are so down on your grades - they are definitely good enough for some of the schools, like UWO. And good MCATs are worth more than grades at some schools in Canada outside of Ontario. 2. There's no rule that says you have to graduate at the end of fourth year. You don't even need to complete your degree requirements during your fourth year. If you have five courses that you need to finish your degree, you can spread those out during the next two years, and complement them with other courses that you find interesting. Then your two bad years will be balanced by three good ones. 3. Lots of people do a master's degree after their undergrad. If you're in an experimental science, this'll take you a couple years. If you're in various other fields, it might only take a year. You are considered differently as a grad applicant by lots of schools. Don't take this option unless you think you will honestly be interested in the graduate program, though. peachy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest calliope Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 (This message was left blank) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lcloh Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 Quoting peachy: "The answer to (2) is that you can certainly get into medical school, but that medical school might not be U of T as a fourth-year undergrad. It might be another school in Ontario or elsewhere, and it might be after a fifth year of undergrad, a master's, or whatever else." I would just like to point out that the grade cut-off is as stringent or higher at other Ontario schools than it is at UofT, so if you aren't making it into UofT, chances are you won't make it into Western, or Queen's, or Ottawa either, without a fifth year undergrad. There is nothing that inherently says that if you have poor grades, you will end up at another Ontario university instead of UofT. In fact, with the lower minimums for the MCAT at UofT, and the higher GPA cutoffs at Western and Ottawa, the opposite is often true. What this means is it is likely a fifth-year of undergrad will have to be taken to have at least two minimum GPA cutoff years to apply to ANY Ontario medical school. Toronto's requirements are neither more stringent nor higher than any other of the Ontario schools. In fact, as I have said already, with regard to discrete cut-offs, the opposite is often true. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JSS02 Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 shanze, if you have an 80s average in 2nd year and a 90s average in 3rd year, you should probably be above the Queen's GPA cutoff (~ 3.6, two years) and definitely above Western's GPA cutoff (~ 3.7, one year...). I think Ottawa's requirements were around 3.8 unless you applied through the Francophone stream or are from the Ottawa region, but as I mentioned, they only counted your 1st year marks for 1/6 of the weighted GPA. I know of a couple people with GPAs of around 3.7 using the U of T weighting system (dropping their worst 3 courses), and they received interviews from U of T this year. Of course, these are based on this year's requirements and could change, even if only slightly, by the time you apply. But for now, if your 2nd year is still below Western's cutoff, it just means that your final year (4th year) will have to make the cutoff as well. Basically your marks probably won't keep you out of most of the Ontario schools, unless you have some courseload problem (e.g. don't have full courseloads every year). Go ahead and do the MCAT, and if you feel ready to apply (keeping in mind your marks are unlikely to be a problem), you should do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 lcloh, You took my post out of context. I was certainly not claiming that students with grades too low for U of T will get into other schools. I was responding to Shanze, who has a very atypical situation because he has one 4.0 year and two much lower years. This means that his GPA will be calculated very differently at the different schools. I was advising him to look around for the school that will weigh his improvement most heavily. For example, as I understand it, UWO will only take his best year into their GPA calculation, and so as long as he makes the MCAT cutoffs he will definitely get an interview there. So, I was not claiming that U of T somehow admits academically superior students - they don't. The point was that applicants with inconsistencies in their applications need to take a careful look at the requirements of all the different schools to find the ones that take advantages of their strengths. No need to get defensive peachy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 Great point Peachy. That sort of is the game meds applicants have to play - take a long look at yourself, take a long look at the schools, apply to the ones you have a realistic shot at. . . at maybe even a few you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TimmyMax Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 Hey UWOMED2005, Funny, I looked and I don't think that aneliz has made a comment on this thread at all! Maybe the early playoff success of the Senators has gone to your head... Timmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest main82 Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 hey peachy, I just wanted to ask. How long does a master or PhD take to complete? and what can you do with the degree afterwards? How about doing a graduate program? Is it like the undergrad degree that isn't good for anything unless you're going into med/dental school? P.S. what year/university are you in? (if you don't mind me asking.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 Yeah, recently all of my thoughts have been concerned with the fact we got shortchanged in not having a chance to trounce the Leafs this year. Next year would you mind telling your team to hold the sucking until after they've played us in the playoffs? It's just not as fun to paste the Islanders and the Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 Hi main82, I've written some stuff below, because you asked, but (a) I'm not a grad student, although I will be one in a couple years and ( your questions are really too broad to give specific answers to. All these things depend very strongly on what field you are in. I just wanted to ask. How long does a master or PhD take to complete?This varies wildly. From what I've seen, a masters is 1 to 3+ years, generally, and a PhD is 4 to 6+ years generally. At the masters level, you can often choose to do coursework-based degrees instead of thesis-based degrees, and these are substantially shorter. Otherwise, length depends most heavily on your field. There was a discussion in a thread a while back where biosci students were saying that a masters in less than 3 years is unreasonable. But a masters that long would be extremely lengthy in, say, math. In humanities/social sciences, degrees seem to take much longer than in sciences. and what can you do with the degree afterwards? Oh, lots of things. Wow, this is really broad. You should look around for more information about the areas you are interested in (talk to your profs, look on the web, go to the career centre, etc). Any job on the planet that requires highly skilled employees, I guess. How about doing a graduate program?I don't understand this one - doing a masters or PhD means the same thing as doing a graduate program....? Is it like the undergrad degree that isn't good for anything unless you're going into med/dental school?Oh, definitely not! I mean, most university students don't go to med or dental school, right? peachy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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