In a pickle, need your opinions please!

[Elchris]

I apologize in advance for the long post but I feel that these details are needed. Please feel free to ask any questions that you feel may help in getting more relevant advice and thank you in advance for your input.

 

Here is my story: Graduated from U of T two years ago and decided to take some time off. I was burnt out, sick and tired of the UofT and everything else. Have been working since then, however, my ultimate goal has always been to go back for more schooling and finally med school.

As I have been sitting here tonight, sick as a dog with the flu, staring at my stats I am becoming increasingly concerned that I may not make it.

 

My AMCAS SGPA and CGPA is around 3.3.

I started off with great marks during 1st year, then things happened in my life and it was downhill from there. Actually, one of the biggest things that happened was UofT, not my kind of environment. I thrived in all my small classes but did very poorly in all the huge science classes. (If I only knew then what I know now ... I wonder how many have said this after graduation).

 

With these stats I am already not getting past the point of GPA cutoffs. I was preparing to go back to school to do a Masters to get some professional direction as well as a back up option since nowadays you can do nothing significant with a general science degree.

However, now I am not so sure that it is the way to go for med school.

 

I am looking at both Canadian and US med schools.

 

Is my only option to go back to school for two years of additional undergrad? The thought of doing undergrad again is not very appealing so I am trying to find any other way to make this happen. Would high Masters GPA matter for admission purposes with the same undergrad GPA?

 

I really need some input and advice on what to do and where to go from here.

Your help is much appreciated.

[future_doc]

Would high Masters GPA matter for admission purposes with the same undergrad GPA?

 

I believe the simple answer is "No" but other posters will soon chime in after they wake. I think you need to go back to UG, and you also need to prepare yourself for a future otherwise than in medicine. What about nursing or kin?

[Hopeful Med]

Yeah as future_doc says a high Masters GPA will not help you. Would you be interested in an accelerated nursing program? You could get a high GPA there and then apply to med school. Some on this board have been successful going this route. Then, if you don't get into med school you still have a great well paying career.

[007]

My advice is not to make big decisions while sick with the flu. Everything seems like a bigger deal then. Rest up and hopefully you'll feel better soon and can figure things out then.

[rmorelan]

Hi there, first step is to get over the flu. Everything looks worse when you are that ill

 

As the others have mentioned it is very likely you will need additional UG to overcome your current GPA problems. I know that doesn't appeal to you for obvious and quite understandable reasons. Unfortunately Canadian schools are just so focused on UG GPA first and foremost

 

One thing though, you said your FIRST year started out great. Exactly how great was that? What was your GPA on specifically your first year alone? If it is high enough there is one other possibility.

[Elchris]

Thank you everyone for your input. I was so afraid everyone was going to say that I need to go back to UG. My experience at UofT was pretty much a nightmare going from one crisis through another, so I cringe at the possibility of more UG.

 

I can't remember how many times I have looked and wanted to do something else other than MED just so that I could take the easy way out, it works for awhile and then my inspiration visualizing a future where I am a doctor kicks in, and no other career seems to satisfy me long term.

 

Being in nursing as a career would be like the fox and the grapes for me. I could do the degree but only for med school admissions not for long term, and obviously I have learnt after "wasting" 4-years at UofT that one needs to have all the options covered.

 

Rmorelan, my first year AMCAS GPA was 3.85 and my Cumulative non-science GPA during the 4-years was 3.71.

As you can see, I was having major problems with the sciences starting year 2, but I don't believe it had something to do with my learning capacity, as it had to do with the way the classes were taught. The classes were not stimulating me.

 

How about US med schools, would a masters with high GPA make a difference there as well as good MCAT scores? Or is this just a long shot too due the UG GPA.

 

Thank you everyone very much for your opinions. I am up to do a lot of soul searching these days but of course won't be making any decisions while sick.

[future_doc]

I don't believe it had something to do with my learning capacity, as it had to do with the way the classes were taught. The classes were not stimulating me.

 

Sorry to be brutal, this is a cop out. I have had horrible profs, we all have, it never stopped me form getting high grades, I njust had another obstacle in my path to overcome. Life does not work the way we prefer, and it is up to us to do whatever it is that we have to do to succeed (in an ethical manner).

 

It's like, the patient died, but by the way, it is not my fault, the patient would have died anyhow sooner or later. All I am telling you is that we all are accountable and responsible for for our own deeds....whether something is 'stimulating' or not frankly is not relevant to our successes or lack thereof.

 

Get better and then reflect. I wish you well.

[Prothrombin]

Yeah CDN schools are just too competitive and too focused on you UG GPA that having anything lower than a 3.7ish leads you into a dead end. For me, my 2nd year was alright, not incredible but not horrible. Im going into 3rd but with a completely new mindstate. If i have any chance of med school i need to get around an A average for both 3rd and 4th as well as a possible 5th year. Now for me at least its not over because I still have 2 to 3 years of good solid effort, and I wont say its over for you either.

 

Have you looked at any and all possible backups? My backups are dental and pharmacy.

[future_doc]

Have you looked at any and all possible backups?

 

Cool, mine are OT/PT. I am sure that all of us - except for those who know they will absolutely get into medicine, e.g., a building has been named after their father of their mother is Dean of the faculty - have a Plan B.

[Elchris]

Sorry to be brutal, this is a cop out. I have had horrible profs, we all have, it never stopped me form getting high grades, I njust had another obstacle in my path to overcome. Life does not work the way we prefer, and it is up to us to do whatever it is that we have to do to succeed (in an ethical manner).

 

It's like, the patient died, but by the way, it is not my fault, the patient would have died anyhow sooner or later. All I am telling you is that we all are accountable and responsible for for our own deeds....whether something is 'stimulating' or not frankly is not relevant to our successes or lack thereof.

 

Get better and then reflect. I wish you well.

 

Thanks for your opinion but you have misunderstood me. Ultimately, obviously it was my fault for the results I got but what I am saying is that it had nothing to do with whether I was capable or not in the sciences.

 

Obviously, some people are stronger than others in certain situations, well, I wasn't in this one. And some things are important to some people, the learning environment was to me but I learned that too late.

 

It's like, the patient died, but by the way, it is not my fault, the patient would have died anyhow sooner or later.

 

This though, is definitely not a fair comparison to what I am saying.

[Elchris]

Have you looked at any and all possible backups? My backups are dental and pharmacy.

 

I am looking at backups right now and the ideal situation for me would be to use my "journey" to a backup to also improve my chances for med school admission. Obviously I would rather do a masters and there is a couple I have in mind within the healthcare profession but this doesn't seem to help much when two years down the road I'll be up for applying.

[future_doc]

This though, is definitely not a fair comparison to what I am saying.

 

You are right, I apologize, it was a very poor analogy and choice of words.

[rmorelan]

With that first year your hit the cut off of western application process for one year provisional acceptance. In theory you could apply with that do one more year of UG (it would have to be a special year) and get into western.

 

The US is highly MCAT dependent, which is a suitable route for you if you are willing to go there. It will be a lot easier for you to get a high MCAT than move up your GPA overall

 

Thank you everyone for your input. I was so afraid everyone was going to say that I need to go back to UG. My experience at UofT was pretty much a nightmare going from one crisis through another, so I cringe at the possibility of more UG.

 

I can't remember how many times I have looked and wanted to do something else other than MED just so that I could take the easy way out, it works for awhile and then my inspiration visualizing a future where I am a doctor kicks in, and no other career seems to satisfy me long term.

 

Being in nursing as a career would be like the fox and the grapes for me. I could do the degree but only for med school admissions not for long term, and obviously I have learnt after "wasting" 4-years at UofT that one needs to have all the options covered.

 

Rmorelan, my first year AMCAS GPA was 3.85 and my Cumulative non-science GPA during the 4-years was 3.71.

As you can see, I was having major problems with the sciences starting year 2, but I don't believe it had something to do with my learning capacity, as it had to do with the way the classes were taught. The classes were not stimulating me.

 

How about US med schools, would a masters with high GPA make a difference there as well as good MCAT scores? Or is this just a long shot too due the UG GPA.

 

Thank you everyone very much for your opinions. I am up to do a lot of soul searching these days but of course won't be making any decisions while sick.

[Capone]

Cool, mine are OT/PT. I am sure that all of us - except for those who know they will absolutely get into medicine, e.g., a building has been named after their father of their mother is Dean of the faculty - have a Plan B.

 

Okay, just out of curiosity, how likely is this true? The "mom & dad have made large donations to the school" part? I mean, if I don't get in on my own efforts, do I just ask my family for a generous donation to the medical school? Ouch! That would be the biggest scandal ever, but if it works, hey, I'll pony up $1.25M to maybe $1.5M if I knew I was guaranteed a spot in med school. LOL:rolleyes:

[hermite]

Hey,

 

I believe that a low undergraduate GPA can be overcome. For example, if your performance in graduate school is good Queen's will overlook a low UG cGPA and still invite you for an interview (as long as you meet their MCAT cutoff). Best of luck.

[Elchris]

The US is highly MCAT dependent, which is a suitable route for you if you are willing to go there. It will be a lot easier for you to get a high MCAT than move up your GPA overall

 

I don't have a problem going to the US. Fortunately in this situation, my bf is a US citizen, so going to the US for med school and settling down there is not such a far fetched idea. In fact, for him is the ideal situation. For me, I just love Canada but I'll do what I need to do in the end.

 

I guess at this point I have to make a decision between taking one extra UG year (and probably take some prereqs for masters programs to have more options) or just go the masters route directly.

Would an extra UG increase my chances more than a Masters for the US (for Canada I would need to probably do both)?

 

As well, if I decide to do an extra UG year, can I do that at another university of my choice, not UofT?

 

Thanks very much for the feedback, it really helps to clear my mind and narrow down my choices.

[rmorelan]

There is one school in Canada I know of (Queens) where with a masters you might get an interview with your current GPA, but overall I think you need at least that one more year (and very likely more). It doesn't have to be at UT (which I think you have had enough of ) but make sure it does match westerns rules for a special year if you got that route. Are you sure you can get into a good masters program with what you have right now? For the states (just an opinion!) but I think the masters would help more.

 

In your case with the US option you will really need to focus on the mcat. For the US there is only so many times they like you writing that test (3?) so unlikely canada you cannot just take it endlessly (not that you would want to). MCAT for them is like GPA for us, the better the score the better

 

I don't have a problem going to the US. Fortunately in this situation, my bf is a US citizen, so going to the US for med school and settling down there is not such a far fetched idea. In fact, for him is the ideal situation. For me, I just love Canada but I'll do what I need to do in the end.

 

I guess at this point I have to make a decision between taking one extra UG year (and probably take some prereqs for masters programs to have more options) or just go the masters route directly.

Would an extra UG increase my chances more than a Masters for the US (for Canada I would need to probably do both)?

 

As well, if I decide to do an extra UG year, can I do that at another university of my choice, not UofT?

 

Thanks very much for the feedback, it really helps to clear my mind and narrow down my choices.

[Elchris]

Are you sure you can get into a good masters program with what you have right now? For the states (just an opinion!) but I think the masters would help more.

 

Actually my undergrad cumulative UofT GPA is 3.5 but thanks to AMCAS conversions I end up with a lower GPA by 0.2 points. However, for grad school they will be using my UofT GPA.

[future_doc]

Okay, just out of curiosity, how likely is this true? The "mom & dad have made large donations to the school" part? I mean, if I don't get in on my own efforts, do I just ask my family for a generous donation to the medical school? Ouch! That would be the biggest scandal ever, but if it works, hey, I'll pony up $1.25M to maybe $1.5M if I knew I was guaranteed a spot in med school. LOL:rolleyes:

 

Capone, I was just joking, but just in case, before you pony up the dough, can I please change my surname to yours, be adopted by your parents and become a sibling for the purpose? lol....and then we would attend the same med school:) ...... and it probably has occurred more often than we can imagine. I know of one large donor (not to med school, but to a top Canadian university) and his grandson got admitted to that university and that dept/faculty where the seven figure donation went..coincidence? for all I know the grandson is very bright (don't know him) and got in on the merits.

[i don't believe in coincidences]

[Elchris]

Capone, I was just joking, but just in case, before you pony up the dough, can I please change my surname to yours, be adopted by your parents and become a sibling for the purpose? lol....and then we would attend the same med school:) ...... and it probably has occurred more often than we can imagine. I know of one large donor (not to med school, but to a top Canadian university) and his grandson got admitted to that university and that dept/faculty where the seven figure donation went..coincidence? for all I know the grandson is very bright (don't know him) and got in on the merits.

[i don't believe in coincidences]

 

If you have that kind of money to donate, most things do come easy whether the grandfather donates to the school or not. You would have connections with more powerful people, experiences which would seperate you from the crowd, access to "help" academic or not that a normal person might not eg. private tutoring, no need to work during your breaks and get burnt out during university, you can just take it easy, travel, go to a SPA and get massages every day etc etc