A-Stark Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 It was not a tactful way to say it, but poor strategy when it comes to the ranking IS a reason (or contributing factor) for going unmatched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loving_medicine Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I was just wondering if it is just a rumor about the difficulty of switching from a 2-year program to a 4/5 year program. It seems like there is always money around from what I heard, but does anyone know any inside information about this kind of stuff? People always say they only hear about the successful transfers, but sources has told me that there are RARELY any unsuccessful ones. With that said, I wonder if this is from 5 to 5 year programs, 5 to 2 year programs, 2 to 5 year programs, or all of the above? Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 At the end of the matching season, (ideally) all of the residency spots are filled up. (There are a few spots open after the second round, but these are usually filled in an unofficial scramble-like process by mid-July). This is an important principle. Typically there aren't open spots lying around for people to "switch" into, although there may be a few open spots in upper years (PGY-2 and above). By extension, we can figure that switching residencies means two people who aren't happy swap places. The other important factor is that the funding doesn't follow you around. It isn't attached to you. It's attached to the residency position. If you leave a position, the funding for that position stays there. So if you leave a FM spot (funded for two years) to enter an open IM spot (3 years) there isn't any problem, so long as you can find that open IM spot in the first place. So, to answer your question, successfully changes residencies requires: a) an open position lying around somewhere a resident who wants to swap with you It's easier to go from specialty to FP because it is more likely that both a) and will be met. There are likely to be more open positions around in FP than in any given specialty, and you are more likely to find a resident who wants a swap. However, there are some specialty residents who change their minds and switch into FP. If you wanted to go from FP to specialty, you'd need to find a specialty resident who wanted to leave it to go to FP. Again, you're far more likely to make these connections within your own institution. Basically it comes down to the competitiveness of the specialty. If you're trying to swap into radiology or something like that, it probably isn't going to happen. That specialty, as an example, doesn't have empty residency positions floating around and residents very infrequently leave the program for another specialty (although never say never). Other option: you would also be eligible to apply in the second round of the CaRMS match. In summary: best chances for a swap are into family medicine within your institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Estairella your posting was too harsh. I will share some kind advice with you: seek first to understand before wanting to be understood... Have you ever gone through the Carms match and experienced what the OP has faced? I haven't so I can't begin to pass judgement. I'm a good judge of human nature, and based on what you have written, I would bet pennies to dollars that you haven't gone through Carms. The OP was simply asking why Round 1 match residents have a different rule than Round 2 match residents: it was a fair and reasonable question in my opinion And I really, really REALLY doubt that those who fail to match in Round 1 "kinda suck." The Carms match pits the absolute best of the best against one another. No shame in being pipped at the post and going into Round 2. I have nothing but respect for all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moo Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Switching is not impossible. I've known of many who went from FM to ob, IM, psych, etc. However, those who fail in their switch almost never broadcast themselves so the true rate of switching from FM to a specialty is unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 One school told me the success rate for 50% for all comers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loving_medicine Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Thanks guys for your posts and insight. RE: Funding and residency programs. I am kind of surprised that the funding stays with the programs. Obviously this would be great news for me since I want to switch into something that is more years than FM. However, where did you get this information. From what I heard, the funding stays with the resident PROVINCIALLY (but not nationally). Either way, I don't think a resident has to leave a program for another resident to take that spot. Ideally, this would be the best for both programs, but you always see a residency program increase in size in PGY2 and above i.e. a net increase in residents. RE: 50% rate I think in the end of the day, the only hindering factor is whether or not the accepting program can absorb the transferred resident. From what I heard, there are actually a lot more successes... and the reason we don't hear about the ones that don't work out is because there aren't actually that many that don't work out. Those that don't are usually because the accepting program can't take on the extra resident (or the donating program can't get rid of their sole resident of the program in that year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 I think in the end of the day, the only hindering factor is whether or not the accepting program can absorb the transferred resident. Not necessarily the only hindering factor. The accepting program has to accept you. For example, during one of my clerkship rotations a couple of years ago, the gossip among the on-service residents was an email their program director had sent. It basically said "So-and-so has asked to switch into our program -- do any of you forsee any difficulties working with this person?" I don't know that the residents could have actually blocked the switch, but their program director certainly sought their input before accepting the transfer. Presumably if enough of them protested loudly enough, the switch might have been veto'd. Different programs may do things differently, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Q}Where did you get this information Husband was a FP resident, and looked into a possible switch (didn't do it, though). From what I heard, the funding stays with the resident PROVINCIALLY That wasn't the case in our province (thank goodness). And it makes little difference either way: there still has to be an open position to switch into. Either way, I don't think a resident has to leave a program for another resident to take that spot. True, but one way or another there HAS to be an "open" spot. Usually this is because another resident has left/is leaving. Programs have set maximums and minimums - the minimum set by the minimum number of residents needed to cover call, and the maximum determined by the finite resources of the department. And, as Ploughboy has pointed out, even if they have an empty position, they may not feel compelled to fill it - they have to want to add you to their mix. Transferring is not guaranteed, or simple, or easy, but it is possible. The hubby's advice (he refuses to type) is to try to avoid going into the match assuming you will transfer. Treat the match with respect: assume that where you match is where you are stuck. (Then, if you can switch, it's a plus). Caveat for IMGs: if any IMGs are reading this, remember that you will likely have ROS contracts, you any switch is further complicated by the fact that the sponsoring agency has to sign off on the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loving_medicine Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Thanks again for the replies. Mourning Cloak, which province are you in if you don't mind me asking? Residents definitely have a say in the program... especially if they are on the committee. Some programs make the transfer resident hopefuls go through the interview/"carms" process again with the medical students as well....(and interview on the same day)! Of course, they don't have to wait till the Match Day to find out the result though. With regards to your hubby's advice, people (myself included) may have went into the match really wanting to do what they matched into (in fact, urban/rural family were my favorite rotations of clerkship)...and really just had a change of heart after 6 months, 12 months, whatever. It's unfortunate that we can't have that intern year to figure things out...but have to decide pretty much in the first few months of clerkship before finishing everything (especially in the three year programs where they haven't finished almost half their rotations before the carms application rolls around). Oh well, thanks again for your insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Mourning Cloak, which province are you in if you don't mind me asking? At the time, Ontario. Some programs make the transfer resident hopefuls go through the interview/"carms" process again with the medical students as well. Some transfer people try to get second round spots - this is probably the process you've observed. It can't happen in the first round, of course, because all med schools forbid giving first-round CaRMS spots to grads with previous training (this doesn't apply, of course, if you went unmatched). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loving_medicine Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Oh, what I meant was not specifically for the CaRMS positions. Just interviewing at the same time. But of course, not going against medical students (just other transfer residents if there are any). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Oh, OK. But don't forget that second round CaRMS positions are also fair game - so long as you apply far enough in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loving_medicine Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Really? Second round CaRMS positions are available to residents? I have never heard of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Really? Second round CaRMS positions are available to residents? Yes (in all provinces except Quebec). Reference link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loving_medicine Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 hmm, I wonder if this is more of a re-entry. i.e. CMGs with training completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.