Why are MDs more qualified than LPNs?

[A-Stark]

i am appaled at some of the responses here. i work with a lot of ER nurses and in many cases i have seen them blow doctors away (experience>education). its too easy to point out the obvious that docotrs have a wider scope of practice and more education but you people sure talk down nurses. for example, saying they cant take histories and that you saw a nurse not even make eye contact... when i did my clinical, i had a n ER doctor showing me a carotid sinus massgage on a terminal geriatric with exgtensive heart disease hx. he flatlined but came back quickly with the atropine that the nurse grabbed, i beleive the massage would be considered risky in any pt with bruit (and this pt had it) but he seemed like he felt the need to show off.

moral..there are good docs and bad docs

good nurses and bad nurses

 

also, in my experience docs are the ones that are the least personable and run through the motions, give a generic treatment then if sh** hits the fan they finally take notice

 

no hate on either just thought id give a different perspective

 

I have sat in on many, many clinic visits with a nurse, and every time the history was done with a specialized checklist, and it never went beyond that standard. Generally speaking, that's fine for a specialized clinic, but in primary care? No way. I've no doubt that nurse practitioners can do a better job of it, but it's still a stretch.

 

(And the nurse I mentioned who did that awful history was a soon-to-be-graduated fourth-year who proceeded to do a similarly awful physical. I don't want to reveal what he missed - confidentiality and all that - but considering he'd been in that placement for several weeks it was not forgivable. But that's still just one anecdote.)

[AndreaM]

I think we have gotten away from the main point here. Doctors aren't 'better' than nurses, they have different jobs. A doctor's job is to diagnose and treat diseases (either through medication, surgery or other interventions). A nurse's job is to provide nursing care which entails such things as placing iv's, administering medications, carrying out doctor's orders, etc. Yes, doctor's and nurses sometimes do similar tasks, such as taking histories, but they are for different reasons and are done in different ways, because they are different jobs.

 

In response to the original question about length of training. An LPN has 12 months of training including a one month practicum (in BC, not sure about other provinces). An RN has a four year degree program, which includes his/her practicums. RN's can then add more training, but not all of them do, and it certainly isn't required to train further. An MD has an unrelated bachelor's degree (4 years), four years of medical school and then 2-6 more years of residency training for a grand total of 10-14 years of total training.

 

A nurse with 20 years of experience might be better in certain situations than a doctor fresh out of school, but that is neither here nor there.

[Rach]

From what I gather, in order to be accepted into the 2 year nursing accelerate program, you need to have a degree with specific science pre requisite courses.

 

 

One of my friends is supposedly entering one of those 18 month programs in ontario and she doesn't have a degree.... Just the science pre-reqs and a few extras which amounts to ~2 years I believe.

[TonesRN]

Just thought I'd throw in a couple cents to this thread. Nurses and doctors, although both health professionals, have very different jobs. You can't really compare the two as a physician is the one who is trained to diagnose, treat, and follow-up with patients as they deem necessary. These decisions are made as a result of many years of medical training. And to be more specific, it isn't just the years of medical training, it's more the depth and breadth of medical knowledge. This is, in my opinion, is the biggest difference between physician and nurse education programs. Nurses aren't taught to make decisions with regard to diagnosis, treatment and follow-up. They aren't taught this because this isn't a part of their role.

 

Now regarding the NP's level of education, I think that it is incorrect to consider the NP equivalent to a family physician (speaking from first-hand experience working as an NP). While NP's have more training and decision-making authority over the typical RN, they still lack the extensive medical knowledge which is gained from medical school. Even during my 2 year master's/NP degree, the first year was a complete waste of time from a clinical perspective (nursing theory courses will hardly help you to manage a patient with acute interstitial nephritis). The second year I took advanced pathophys/physical assessment courses which did help, but really this was only for a short period of time whereas a medical student is taught this from the very beginning of medical school.

 

NP's are effective mid-level practitioners and can ease the burden placed upon the health care system by managing stable, routine patients. More acute, complex cases should always be handled by a physician.

[FMX]

Lets not forget that 10-15% of the nurses job is to provide patient care... cleaning, wiping bum, giving enema, changing clothes etc.

 

(flame suit on)

 

But of to balance that out, they do have lots of other important roles as well, starting IV's, getting meds ready, wound care etc. I work at a clinic where the wound care nurse actually gives advice to the physician on how to handle certain wounds (i.e. using iodine vs bacitracin on a irrigated + drained abscess).