Final grades + question about U of T

[Guest doc]

I have two questions that I'm hoping someone (or multiple ppl) can answer:

 

1) When do we send our final grades to U of T (or is it OMSAS?) and do they actually count in the final selection process?

 

2) I have already received notice that I have been accepted at a non-Ontario medical school. However, I am trying to decide whether or not I should attend U of T over this particular school if I get an acceptance from U of T.. I have talked to a few ppl, and they all have had negative things to say about Toronto - larger hospitals equates to much more competition, unfriendly staff and students, mean patients, too large of a class and no overall sense of cohesiveness/comaraderie..etc.. I was just wondering (particularly for the moderators) if this is true, and whether or not U of T is actually worth attending. Sure, it has an outstanding reputation for being a leader in research, but I am not as interested in research and clinical practice. What is the environment at U of T med like? Are the classes too large? If given the chance to go there over another Canadian medical school, is it well worth it? What are the reasons that you folks want to go to U of T, besides the reputation aspects??

[Guest Sydney]

Jus curiously, doc, what med school were you accepted at? (If you don't want to give the name can you tell us if it was an Eastern/Western Candian school?)

 

Thanks

[Guest Doug]

Picking a medical program is not easy. Based on my experience and those of my friends I would suggest that you select the program where you think you will learn the most and just as important where you think you will be happiest. Its a tough 4 years, you gotta enjoy it!

 

One more thing, do NOT pick a school based on reputation - I gaurantee you will regret it later on.

 

My two cents.

[Guest UTmedstudent]

Hi. I am in first year meds at U of T and I wanted to address your concerns. You are right that the class size is big (198 this year). I too was worried that this would be a difficult size class to be in, in terms of cohesiveness, making friends, etc... I was actually surprised that the class as a whole is a pretty tight unit. Surprisingly, most people now know each other. At the begining of the year, there were many planned social activities that brought the students together. As for learning, I have not found the large class size to be detrimental. As a large group we have lectures but everything else is done in groups of 6 to 12 people so there have not been any problems with people not receiving attention should they need help.

 

About the hospitals... yes, they are huge. No, they are not unfriendly. The patients here are probably much like patients elsewhere and I have found the staffs at all of the University Health Network hospitals to be not only pleasant, but extremely helpful. Competition from what I have seen is not fierce because we are not all at the same hospitals. The students are broken up into three academies and students are placed at one of five teaching hospitals in Toronto.

 

I don't think that basing an acceptance on a reputation is wise because as I found out coming to U of T, my perception of what its reputation was was completely wrong. A decision for med school is much like one for undergrad. Where do you feel comfortable? Do you want to live in a big city or a smaller one? Do you want to live close to your family? etc.....

 

Sorry for rambling. Good luck.

[Guest Mike]

Remember you will graduate MD no matter where you go to school. I dont think a patient will refuse to see you just because you didn't go to UofT, I highly doubt a patient will even ask you where you went to school. Could you imagine patients talking, " yeah I think he's a good doc but he went to western and they only look at your best year so he's probably a slacker and turned on his jets for one year!" I just cant see patients caring or knowing the difference btw schools.

 

Secondly, UofT is a fantastic learning environment but so are all of the schools and the education you get at ANY Canadian medical school will be the same (excellent ) So it really does come down to where you feel comfortable living and going about your business everyday for the next four years. From talking to friends at other schools I think the student population for personality types will be fairly standardized in terms of group dynamics and "types" of people. There is a belief that here at UofT we have more hard core keeners because of the high GPA requirement. I can tell you that is not the case, in fact the people are really smart but also very helpful and take an interest in the other students success. So choose your school according to your own needs and even if you dont like where you end up, its no biggie really its only 2 years in the classroom and your too busy working to really stress over it

 

Take care and good luck to you!

 

Thanks

Mike

[Guest JSS02]

How's the workload like at U of T meds? At the last two places I visited (UWO and Ottawa), they had blocks lasting a few weeks each, with exams at the end of each block. So they're pretty relaxed except for the couple of weeks around exam time. And at Queen's all the exams are at the end of the terms (Dec. and May). Is it kind of like that at U of T, or is there always a test coming up soon?

[Guest Jennifer Y]

Doug:

Please tell me why shouldn't pick according to reputation?

Is it because of competitiveness ie clerks competing with residences for hands-on, or actually no competition as residences get to do all and clerks at UT just gets to look, or is it because it is hard to stand out when there are so many bright lights in the class, and which translates to harder to get good references for your CaRMS, or because UT's good reputation is just that, it is not particularly advantage for one to go to med school there, ie it does not favour you for a match depending which school you come from, or is it an advantage to getting a match at UT as you attended Med school there, and the program there will favour their own students for the CaRMS.

[Guest YongQ]

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> When do we send our final grades to U of T (or is it OMSAS?) and do they actually count in the final selection process?<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

 

You send them to OMSAS when you're accepted to a school. U of T will withdraw your acceptance if you failed this year, of course. But other OMSAS school, I believe, are more strict on GPA requirements of the year you're accepted.

 

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> What is the environment at U of T med like?<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

 

U of T, to me, is not what your friend described. I suggest that you don't go to a school based on reputation - it's highly arbitrary and doesn't take into account what <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> you<!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> want. Go to a school based on its strengths in a certain area, such as research or access to a certain type of healthcare setting. Or choose a school for the city. Or choose a school because you like the curriculum. But don't not go to U of T because your friends tell you they don't like it, or because you heard some rumour on the street.

 

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> Are the classes too large?<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

 

Why don't you tell me what you think? It's ~198 people in group lectures, ~32 people in anatomy labs, ~8 people in PBLs, ~20 people in seminars, ~8 people in DOCH, and ~6 people in ASCM.

 

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> If given the chance to go there over another Canadian medical school, is it well worth it?<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

 

Yes if you like it. No if you don't. Sorry if I'm not giving you perhaps the answer you want, but the decision really shouldn't be made by "some anonymous guys on the internet..."

 

Lastly, about the CaRMS, I can sorta see it being important to do your M.D. at a school where you plan to do residency. I'd say over 90% of people are flexible on this, however - and it's in most people's best interest to be flexible. I mean, if you're the typical med student in your 20's, why would you care whether you go to Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal, etc. for your residency? I can only think of a few reasons, e.g. you're married or you have a family. My outlook is that needs change, people change, and besides, it's an adventure!

[Guest Jennifer Y]

YongQ:

Would you mind answering answering some the questions I had posted to Doug?

Thanks!

[Guest YongQ]

Hi Jennifer Y,

 

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> Please tell me why shouldn't pick according to reputation? Is it because of competitiveness ie clerks competing with residences for hands-on,<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

 

I believe this concept of "team medicine" (each team consisting of a certain number of clerks, interns, residents, fellows, and attendings) is the same in all major teaching hospitals at any medical school - the major changes come in rural areas, where everybody pretty much gets to do everything; a GP in a rural setting, for example, might get to do emerg and obstetrics because of the lack of ability to refer these patients elsewhere. I think team medicine, however, is <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> different<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, not disadvantageous. On one hand, you get less hands-on than you would in a rural setting. But on the other hand, you get valuable mentorship from physicians at every level of training.

 

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> or actually no competition as residences get to do all and clerks at UT just gets to look,<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

 

I'm not a clerk myself, but I'm under the impression that clerks at UT get experiences comparable to any other school.

 

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> or is it because it is hard to stand out when there are so many bright lights in the class,<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

 

This may be true, but depending on your outlook on things, it may not be such a bad thing. Do you want a smaller class just to have less competition? I'd more understand someone wanting to have a smaller class to have more one-on-one instruction. On the other hand, think of all the amazing people you could meet in a class of 198 - the number is daunting to some, exciting to others.

 

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> and which translates to harder to get good references for your CaRMS,<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

 

Good teachers and good mentors from whom you can get references are not in short supply at U of T. Especially since we have so many teaching hospitals here in Toronto (6 or 7 near the campus).

 

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> or because UT's good reputation is just that, it is not particularly advantage for one to go to med school there, ie it does not favour you for a match depending which school you come from, or is it an advantage to getting a match at UT as you attended Med school there, and the program there will favour their own students for the CaRMS.<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

 

U of T students are favoured for residency at U of T, and this is probably the same situation at every medical school in Canada. However, the degree to which "home-grown" students are favoured varies with the committee. And almost invariably, other factors like references and CV outweigh the home advantage.

[Guest YongQ]

Hi JSS02,

 

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> How's the workload like at U of T meds? At the last two places I visited (UWO and Ottawa), they had blocks lasting a few weeks each, with exams at the end of each block. So they're pretty relaxed except for the couple of weeks around exam time. And at Queen's all the exams are at the end of the terms (Dec. and May). Is it kind of like that U of T, or is there always a test coming up soon?<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

 

It sounds like the workload is the same here. We have tests near the end of each month, whether it be a midterm or final. Many of us are 1- or 2-weeks-before crammers as well. That being said, others follow the material all the way through (i.e. are "model students"). You may see a huge difference in the material we cover vs. the material they cover at other schools, so this may translate into a larger or smaller workload - I really can't compare since I don't know what the curriculum's like in the schools you mentioned.

[Guest JSS02]

So other than those 1 or 2 weeks before tests, people are pretty relaxed? It seems like at other schools, when it's not near exam time they have to do just enough to keep up with PBL and that's it... I've been like that all through undergrad (i.e. cramming) so I think it works better for me.

[Guest YongQ]

I can't really generalize with such a large class. I know there are always a few people who will never relax. And there are a few people who cram in about 10 days and do fine. Everybody else (including me) is somewhere in the middle along a gradient.