Western GPA in Bio/Med Science

[Viggy]

hey everyone, I was on another forum and a guy had a 3.9 GPA at Western Bio/Med sci program. It was a long thread, but i got the general feeling that getting a high GPA at Western Bio/Med Sci. was easy. is this true?

 

like, the person with the 3.9 GPA said he had a 92% avg. in high school, so he was bright to start off with, but the way everyone was posting about the courses and such made it seem like Western was a party school and if you work hard you can pull off a ridiculous GPA.

 

i'd appreciate any answers. i'm actually considering this program because i like the sound of it, not just b/c it seems easy. i am also considering Mac Health Sci. thanks, and yes i am a Med hopeful, so GPA is something that i will take into consideration when making my choice. so, if anyone knows about GPA and Western and GPA at Mac Health Sci pls. post

 

thanks

[Viggy]

lol, tell me about it.

 

i don't understand, besides the unique teaching concept at Mac, what is so special about the Health Science program?

 

like, Western has a Health Science program too, and so do other universities, but is there anything special about Mac's health science other than the teaching concept? like is there something i don't know about (easy marks, little homework, less stress, less tests, or something like that?)

[oldnewbie]

No veggies for Viggy. You should be asking MAC questions on the MAC forum, not the Western forum.

[sgt.pepper]

It is all about an elitist mentality and prestige. Didn't Mac come out with another program called Arts and Sci or something and they had a minimum 88% to get in. What is so special you can take english and science major. U of t and 20 other unis have the same thing.

[Bets]

Western Bio/Med sci is definitely not a bird program. I know of several students that entered this program with >90% high school averages and had to struggle to keep their marks over 80%. Some of these students lost their entrance scholarships after the first year because of dropping below 80%. Partying goes on at all universities and is really student-specific. If you're one that is inclined to party instead of study, you will find the parties wherever you go.

[Viggy]

ok, do u know if the courses you take in the BIO/MED are already ones that you'd need to take as pre-reqs for Med School?...or at least for the most part

[rainman]

Western's bio/med program should not be considered a bird program. However, based on my own experience at Western and talking to friends at other schools, it seems like hard work is more likely to pay dividends at Western than say Mac or UofT. If you stick with Med Sci...you probably won't see a "written" exam until 3rd year or later. So you can imagine that the opportunity to get 90s and 100s kind of presents itself with multiple choice exams, given that you understand the material well enough. Also, the lab components to courses at Western during the first two years rarely require full lab reports. So, it is kind of light in that respect as well.

 

Nevertheless, it shouldn't be taken lightly and it's also important to consider other aspects of the school that you choose to go to from sports to research, etc. In my opinion, Western is up there for that as well.

 

Good luck.

[rainman]

ok, do u know if the courses you take in the BIO/MED are already ones that you'd need to take as pre-reqs for Med School?...or at least for the most part

 

All of your pre-requisites should be taken care of but keep an eye out for social sci/humanities/english credits because some med schools (especially outside of Ontario) require those. This will require some leg work on your part to take a look at admission requirements for different med schools that you may be interested in.

[Viggy]

Western's bio/med program should not be considered a bird program. However, based on my own experience at Western and talking to friends at other schools, it seems like hard work is more likely to pay dividends at Western than say Mac or UofT. If you stick with Med Sci...you probably won't see a "written" exam until 3rd year or later. So you can imagine that the opportunity to get 90s and 100s kind of presents itself with multiple choice exams, given that you understand the material well enough. Also, the lab components to courses at Western during the first two years rarely require full lab reports. So, it is kind of light in that respect as well.

 

Nevertheless, it shouldn't be taken lightly and it's also important to consider other aspects of the school that you choose to go to from sports to research, etc. In my opinion, Western is up there for that as well.

 

Good luck.

 

hey thanks a lot, yea when i was saying "easy program", it just seemed like in comparison to other life sci/health sci programs it would be easier to get higher marks at western....which is like what you said

 

also, i am considering Mac and Western because they both have good baseball teams, and I believe Western won it all last yr. so that's a positive too

 

now, about the multiple choice and nothaving full written components for exams until 3rd year, are all the tests in yr.1 and yr.2 also multiple choice? and do you know if in most sci programs at other universities the test/exams are multiple choice the first 2 years? and what about health sci at Mac....is that multiple choice or not...i know they do PBL, so idk if multiple choice can fit in with the whole "critical thinking scheme"

[rainman]

I can't really speak on behalf of other programs with certainty but most exams during 1st and 2nd year at Western are multiple choice. I may have exaggerated a bit by saying all of them are because in calc and physics you will have to show your approach to solving a problem. Also, in second year there is a lab course in which you have assignments and stuff and a written exam. Other than that though, all of my exams were multiple choice. Even in 3rd year, 80% of my courses used multiple choice as the only method of evaluation.

 

Having said that, I have come to like written exams to some extent because with multiple choice it is really all-or-none. You get it right or you get it wrong but with written exams you can get part marks. The flip side to that is with written answers, there is the element of subjectivity to interpretation of the answer which can screw people over.

[Viggy]

what program are you currently in? The BMSc? and from your previous posts, I take it that you are in Year 3? If so, which strand/path of the programdid you take in yr.2 and yr.3(ex.basic med sciences, biochem, pathology, etc.)?

thanks

[rainman]

what program are you currently in? The BMSc? and from your previous posts, I take it that you are in Year 3? If so, which strand/path of the programdid you take in yr.2 and yr.3(ex.basic med sciences, biochem, pathology, etc.)?

thanks

 

4th year actually...I stayed in basic medical sciences. Although you have to choose a module after first year, you really only begin to branch out into the respective modules after second year which gives you the opportunity to switch. I chose to stick with med sci because you get the most flexibility in terms of choosing courses from different departments. In retrospect, I probably would have elected to do a thesis though if I had the choice.

[jbdent]

hey thanks a lot, yea when i was saying "easy program", it just seemed like in comparison to other life sci/health sci programs it would be easier to get higher marks at western....which is like what you said

 

If you're looking for an easier program.. you should look into Health Sci at Western. Wayyyy easier than Med Sci. Health Sci at UWO and Health Sci at Mac are two totally different programs though, so don't get the two confused. Health Sci at UWO is basically like "sociology" of the health care system in Canada and you get a BHsc. Med Sci is all biology dealing with humans (e.g. anatomy, biochem, epidemiology, physiology, pathology, etc.) and you get a BMSc. Biological Sci is everything else (cells, plants, animals) and you get a BSc. I know a lot of ppl who switched after first or second year into Health Sci (from Bio/med, which is the common first two years for both Med Sci and Biological Sci) because it was a lot easier (& more GPA-friendly).

 

That being said, it depends where your interests lie. I stuck with Med Sci (despite over a 15% drop from my high school marks to first year uni despite studying my @$$ off.. luckily I went in pretty high so it didn't hurt my cGPA as bad as it sounds), scraped through to keep my scholarship that year, but was fine from second year on (first year is a transition year regardless of what program you're in). Even though I was frustrated in first year with pretty much all of my courses, I could care less about the health care system in Canada and wanted to learn more about biological sciences, so for me switching wasn't even given a thought.

[nature]

...I could care less about the health care system in Canada...

 

I think you mean that you "could not care less" with respect to [learning about] our healthcare system.

 

Hopefully this is not still true.

[jbdent]

Hahah whatever.. 4 am man! Besides, it's not the point of my post at all, which was simply to give the OP another option to consider if they're looking for more GPA-friendly programs (at UWO at least) so maybe try to be a little less condescending.. at least I've offered something of value to this thread..

 

And no, not everyone wants to get their undergraduate degree learning about the healthcare system in Canada.. hand me a med sci course anyday, none of this sociology-based stuff. I came to university for a science degree.. not a sociology one.

[Viggy]

And no, not everyone wants to get their undergraduate degree learning about the healthcare system in Canada.. hand me a med sci course anyday, none of this sociology-based stuff. I came to university for a science degree.. not a sociology one.

 

haha, yea, i don't know if i'll be able to survive 4 years of a sociology-type course. but, it is another option to consider, thanks.

[rainman]

I used to think about health sci (at UWO) the same way...it sounded like a 4 year snoozer. But now that I think about it, it's a pretty useful way to thoroughly understand our healthcare system, a level of understanding that is hard to gain informally on your own. So I wouldn't be so quick to discount it. In any case, I've really enjoyed Med Sci and I probably wouldn't change my decision if I had another go at it. It would be nice if Western introduced a program that offered the best of both worlds.

[Viggy]

I used to think about health sci (at UWO) the same way...it sounded like a 4 year snoozer. But now that I think about it, it's a pretty useful way to thoroughly understand our healthcare system, a level of understanding that is hard to gain informally on your own. So I wouldn't be so quick to discount it. In any case, I've really enjoyed Med Sci and I probably wouldn't change my decision if I had another go at it. It would be nice if Western introduced a program that offered the best of both worlds.

 

Yea, it would be great if they had a program that had a little sociology part to it and the actual science, with labs and such...so that you become well-rounded too....i guess Mac health sci would fit this mold maybe?

[rogerroger]

I have a BMSc. degree so I can comment on this.

 

I cannot speak more highly of Western and of the Medical Science program.

 

Is it easy? Hell no. You will work your ass off if you want medical school competitive grades. But the program is also fair. If you know your stuff you will get the mark you deserve. But I don't think there is a program in existence where you can cruise and get into medical school. If their was you would not be doing yourself a favour by enrolling in it as you would be destroyed in two weeks once in medical school. From a medical student's perspective a big part of those first four years is learning how deal with rapid information processing as this is a huge part of medical school.

 

The beauty of the Medical Science program is that it prepares you very well for a medical school curriculum while also developing a strong research background. This is nice because if you get into medical school you have a head start and if you don't get into medical school you also have a solid foundation to start a graduate degree if you wish.

 

I also can't emphasize this enough, taking courses like histology and the various system specific physiology courses offered within the Med Sci program made life way easier in my first year medical school.

 

I can only speak for my class. But within it we have quite a few MedSci alumni. I would estimate we have at least as many UWO MedSci people as we have Mac health sci. But I am also aware of former classmates at pretty much every medical school in Ontario, especially Western and Queen's meds. But I would not look too deeply into this...

 

Robarts and the other research facilities are also available to those in the program. During my time at Western I spent two summers involved in research and completed a year long research project in fourth year as part of the Medical Science program. Also the program is designed to give you the skills to easily conduct research. They taught medical specific statistics and stuff I am learning now in my second year of medical school in my second year of undergrad. Also they have a great research methodology lab course which was called Bio290 (the name has since changed) which was probably one of the most practically useful courses I ever took.

 

Academically my only real issue was the biomedical physics course which made up the mandatory physics credit for the degree. This course was a joke and it made my life harder when it came to the MCAT.

 

For the most part the profs are also great teachers, especially within the physiology department.

 

So in summery. If you are willing to work hard I think the MedSci program offers you a real chance to maximize your potential in multiple ways. It really is a wonderful program which I am proud to have been in.

[Viggy]

wow, thanks a lot for the information. i was sort of under a false impression that the BMSc program was 'easier' than others, but I guess I was completely wrong.

 

I just have a question: Why did the mandatory physics credit make your life harder when it came to the MCAT?

 

I am a very hard worker, actually I probably work way too hard for high school, so hopefully I'll be fine in this program if I decide to choose it. However, do most university programs (science-related) have this much of a workload? Like, at this point I understand that I'm going to have to work hard to get a great GPA regardless of where I go, but do you think this program has a greater workload than others?

 

a little off topic, but in first year you take physics, calculus, biology, chemistry, and then you have space for 1 credit, I believe. Are all the years this limited, in terms of being able to take so few electives? I would like to get all the courses required for most US Med Schools and take some 'easier courses' to boost my GPA, so is there space in the MedSci program for this?

 

btw, if it isn't too intrusive, could you post your cGPA and MCAT scores? I just want to get an idea of what a MedSci student at Western would need to get around to be competitive....and what is achievable if I work hard in this program

[jbdent]

i was sort of under a false impression that the BMSc program was 'easier' than others, but I guess I was completely wrong.

 

I just have a question: Why did the mandatory physics credit make your life harder when it came to the MCAT?

 

... do you think this program has a greater workload than others?

 

Don't know where you got that from.. BMSc is quite a heavy program. But if you enjoy it, and that's what you're looking for from school, its a great program because as rogerroger said it gives you a lot of research experience. But.. it's not always easy to get high marks you need.. esp in upper years once you leave cushy multiple choice exams and start having courses based entirely on research papers.

 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong rogerroger, but everyone I know that wrote the MCAT who had taken biological physics or w/e it was called basically had to teach themselves physics for their MCAT because ours was a pretty easy course but taught from a biological perspective, neither which would help you in prepping for the MCAT at all.

 

I think that all science programs are heavy. One thing about Med Sci though is that since you're never guaranteed to be in your program the next year (limited enrollment), that there is a sense of uncertainty.. what if you don't get into your program for the next year? So you have to take some extra science courses to prepare in case you found yourself having to switch into a more generalized program (i.e. general Med Sci), which taking extra science courses takes up spots for easier electives.

[Kyleh]

Hey Viggy

 

Currently I am a second BMSc student and took biophysics last year. A big reason why the course will not help you for the MCAT is the material covered. Everything is grade 12 physics with a biological twist. The prof really isn't the best either which makes the course a bit of a pain.

 

Something good about the course is that his test questions are about a paragraph long (similar to what you will find on the MCAT).

 

If you have any other questions shoot me a pm.

 

Kyle

[rogerroger]

 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong rogerroger, but everyone I know that wrote the MCAT who had taken biological physics or w/e it was called basically had to teach themselves physics for their MCAT because ours was a pretty easy course but taught from a biological perspective, neither which would help you in prepping for the MCAT at all.

 

I took this course in 2004/2005. So I am pretty sure it has changed from the way I experienced it. But yes it was not super hard. It was normal physics but within a biological context. For example, instead of a lever in a problem you might evaluate the same problem using a "joint" or something. Same concept just dressed up differently.

 

My beef with this course was that I learned very little despite getting an ok mark. This is great for the gpa but kinda pointless for my MCAT.

 

But I don't want to give the wrong impression. This course is not indicitive of the rest of the courses I took in the BMSc program. I was very well prepared for chemistry, organic chemistry, biology etc. Heck, I ended up teaching this stuff for a prep company, so despite this questionable physics course I must of learned somthing.

 

I think that all science programs are heavy. One thing about Med Sci though is that since you're never guaranteed to be in your program the next year (limited enrollment), that there is a sense of uncertainty.. what if you don't get into your program for the next year? So you have to take some extra science courses to prepare in case you found yourself having to switch into a more generalized program (i.e. general Med Sci), which taking extra science courses takes up spots for easier electives.

 

If you have Canadian competitive med school grades you should have no problem staying in the specialization stream of your choice. For example, I think 80ish was the cut off for physiology. The only stream that might cut competitive student was perhaps the specialization in pathology module. When I was at Western the cut for this was way up in the 90s I think...

 

But this might of changed a lot over the last two years...

 

Remember, my information is dated to 2007.

[Kyleh]

Hey rogerroger,

 

Your information is still up to date

 

Viggy, take a look at the following link:

 

http://www.uwo.ca/bmsc

 

There are a whole bunch of cutoff grades listed.

[Viggy]

hey. thanks a lot guys. so, there are only about 15 seats for the pathology program. and there are a total of around 320 for all the different modules you can take, including the Medical Sciences one. that's probably why the averages are so high for that particular one, its very competitive.

 

but still, some of those averages are way up there. Would you guys know, approximately, the breakdown of students marks? like approx. how many ppl had 4.0s, 3.9s, 3.8s....etc.

 

and i'm not worried about not being accepted from year to year, but where do all those that 'don't make the cut' go? like doesnt this program start off with like 700 students?....after Year 1 it goes down to 320ish.