Transferring to a PhD program and then medicine

[invincible110]

Hi I was just wondering if anyone on this forum has taken this route to medical school. I applied for the first time this year as a second year masters student and was rejected from all my schools, most recently UofT

 

I am planning to transfer to a PhD program now, and would like to hear from people who may have done this in the past, or are in the process of doing it.

[osmosis]

Hi I was just wondering if anyone on this forum has taken this route to medical school. I applied for the first time this year as a second year masters student and was rejected from all my schools, most recently UofT

 

I am planning to transfer to a PhD program now, and would like to hear from people who may have done this in the past, or are in the process of doing it.

 

well, i guess it would come down why you were rejected? the fact that you were a MSc student prbly means it wasn't academic related. if it's MCAT, or extracurrics, than a phd will not solve that problem. i would think twice before commiting to a phd for the sake of just getting into med school.

[Dr.Henderson]

I agree with what was posted above.

 

I am personally going to be finishing my M.Sc. fairly shortly here and will be applying for the first time this next cycle. My plan is to do a second undergrad (will only take me two years) while I'm trying to get in.

 

My weak point is my GPA though, so more undergrad - improving cGPA and last 60 is in my best interest. I'm at about a 3.4 cGPA and a 4.1 grad GPA (both out of 4.33).

 

If medicine is your goal and your GPA is what's holding you back you're probably better off going back and doing some more undergrad rather than a PhD. But hey if you really love research then go for the PhD!

[invincible110]

Thank you all for your comments - I will explain my situation a bit more:

 

My GPA isn't great but I meet the 2-year GPA cut-offs for all schools that look at this. My MCAT is actually probably the biggest thing holding me back.

 

I previously got a 9P 8V 12B Q and my only real shot this past year was UofT hoping they overlooked my verbal and wGPA because of my grad productivity. It really crushed me to get rejected because I know multiple people who got in the previous years without any publications, while I already have multiple co-author pubs, many conferences, and more publications in store.

 

I honestly like research and could see myself doing research on the side to practicing as a physician. My project right now is blossoming and I really love my lab and everything.

 

The concerns I have though with switching to a PhD are with finishing in two more years. I am going to talk to my supervisor soon, and I am going to be straight with him. The only way I will transfer is if I have the ability to finish in two more years (I know a lot of this depends on me). What this means is that I am only sacrificing this upcoming 2010 cycle in applying to medicine.

 

Also the fact that I could potentially have a PhD at age 26 is comforting if med school doesn't work out for me. I don't look at med school as my only possible future (this may not be a good thing), and I would like to have a back-up.

 

On a separate note I have also been thinking about the notion of extending my masters rather than transferring. I need to do the MCAT again if I wish to apply this upcoming year. But I don't see myself doing well on it again if all the while I am trying to finish my masters. I am going to also ask my prof about the possibility of working part-time in the summer (giving me a chance to study for the MCAT), and then extending my masters to like Nov/Dec. Have any of you done this?

 

So yeah sorry for the rambling, but I really needed to get this stuff out. As you can see I am all over the place and really confused about what to do next.

 

So to summarize I would like to hear your opinions about my situation. Have any of you transferred and then gone into medicine? Was it difficult? Do you see any unforeseen problems?

[Slashsev01]

you seem to enjoy research and are already keen on staying their... based on your comments

 

id would stay/phd....and see where it takes you

 

i hate to say this but;

 

 

there is always a future in research..lol

 

and 26 is nothing

[WaveSense]

i didn't get in after a masters, did a phd, published more papers, and got in. a phd with published papers will help your academic mark (at least for u of t and calgary.. those are the only two i'm familiar with). finihsing in 2 years is great, but don't limit yourself to that.. if you finish in 2 years with 1 paper but finish in 3 with 2-3 papers, definatly take that extra year. I don't know why everyone is so fixated on finishing so early, take your time, learn some skills and you'll be more successful in the future.

 

don't listen to these people who have no clue what they're talking about. henderson hasn't even applied yet but is giving advice.. the most vocal on this forum are those people who think that masters = free ticket into med school and who foolishly committed themselves to something they hate. we had several of those in our lab who just jerked off their entire time there and did nothing.. think they got good references? hah in the end they're so bitter about research (which is still science and such an important part of medicine btw), that they see it as their personal mission to deter anyone from doing it. If you enjoyed what you did, go for it, a successful phd will definately help your med package as it did for mine (and several others that I know).

[gryph]

What was your GPA, WaveSense? Can the PhD make up for a low GPA (<3.5) if you have significant research productivity?

[Dr.Henderson]

i didn't get in after a masters, did a phd, published more papers, and got in. a phd with published papers will help your academic mark (at least for u of t and calgary.. those are the only two i'm familiar with). finihsing in 2 years is great, but don't limit yourself to that.. if you finish in 2 years with 1 paper but finish in 3 with 2-3 papers, definatly take that extra year. I don't know why everyone is so fixated on finishing so early, take your time, learn some skills and you'll be more successful in the future.

 

don't listen to these people who have no clue what they're talking about. henderson hasn't even applied yet but is giving advice.. the most vocal on this forum are those people who think that masters = free ticket into med school and who foolishly committed themselves to something they hate. we had several of those in our lab who just jerked off their entire time there and did nothing.. think they got good references? hah in the end they're so bitter about research (which is still science and such an important part of medicine btw), that they see it as their personal mission to deter anyone from doing it. If you enjoyed what you did, go for it, a successful phd will definately help your med package as it did for mine (and several others that I know).

 

And what part of my advice, exactly, doesn't make sense?

 

If he likes research then he should go for the PhD as I said.

 

If he doesn't, and just wants to get into med then more ugrad is probably a far preferable route if his GPA is lacking.

 

What part of that do you disagree with?

 

I'm certainly not one of the people you described, I entered into research intending on continuing in the research field but discovered along the way that I really need more of a people oriented profession. I'm coming away with papers, invaluable references, and an excellent overall experience.

[WaveSense]

If medicine is your goal and your GPA is what's holding you back you're probably better off going back and doing some more undergrad rather than a PhD.

 

I applied after undergrad, masters and then phd. Got in after phd with the SAME gpa, only thing was my publications. Your GPA is part of the academic score that UofT uses. This academic score is not just GPA but a whole lot of other factors as well, including your research productivity.

 

Doing a PhD is NOT a guarantee that you'll get in, but neither is more undergrad. If you are productive and I mean having anywhere from 3-5 QUALITY papers, it is definately possible to get in with a sub 3.5 GPA.

 

Including me, I personally know 4 grad students who are either in the 1t3 or 1t2 class at UofT who had <3.5 GPA. 4 isn't alot compared in 450, but it is definately doable.

[invincible110]

Thanks for all your reponses, especially Wavesense (I Pm'd you).

 

I have talked with my supervisor, who said he would love me to stay and do a PhD. I was straight with him and told him that I am not done applying to medicine and may wish to finish in 2 additional years (meaning I would apply again in 2011). He told me that if medicine is my goal then he would help me as much as possible, but at the same time that I would probably have to work my butt off. He said he doesn't doubt that I can do it, and gave me examples of numerous people who have done it.

 

I am relieved that I have made my decision, but I know now comes the hard part. I understand a PhD is much different from a masters, as I am expected to become an expert.

 

As per one of your points earlier - I don't know why i am so fixated with age. But finishing med school past 30 and then doing residency until I am like 35, does kind of scare me. Obviously personal matters, like marriage, children etc. come into play. I guess I will just have to let things play out now...

 

Thanks for all your inputs.

[osmosis]

And what part of my advice, exactly, doesn't make sense?

 

If he likes research then he should go for the PhD as I said.

 

If he doesn't, and just wants to get into med then more ugrad is probably a far preferable route if his GPA is lacking.

 

What part of that do you disagree with?

 

I'm certainly not one of the people you described, I entered into research intending on continuing in the research field but discovered along the way that I really need more of a people oriented profession. I'm coming away with papers, invaluable references, and an excellent overall experience.

 

this was kind of what i was getting at as well. an MSc is a great way to test the research waters, but it's not as though your a committing a crime by saying "i don't like research and am not going to pursue academia beyond this point."

[Non_Trad]

don't do it if you are getting ur PhD to get into Med.

Do it if you are planning to do research along with patient care

[tooty]

I applied after undergrad, masters and then phd. Got in after phd with the SAME gpa, only thing was my publications. Your GPA is part of the academic score that UofT uses. This academic score is not just GPA but a whole lot of other factors as well, including your research productivity.

 

Doing a PhD is NOT a guarantee that you'll get in, but neither is more undergrad. If you are productive and I mean having anywhere from 3-5 QUALITY papers, it is definately possible to get in with a sub 3.5 GPA.

 

Including me, I personally know 4 grad students who are either in the 1t3 or 1t2 class at UofT who had <3.5 GPA. 4 isn't alot compared in 450, but it is definately doable.

 

that's fine wavesense, but if medicine is what OP ultimately wants (ie would be disappointed in life without md), then he should play the simple numbers game. Of course a phd will help him but it's essentially only for UofT whereas if he bumped up his ug grades and MCAT he could be competitive for several other schools, improving his chances into med school dramatically. but i'm sure it's a very difficult path to take since one would feel like he's going 'backwards' and somewhat abandoning his hard work.

 

speaking strictly from a 'numbers game' perspective, OP stands to gain more by working his ass off to improve his undergrad and MCAT. Even ottawa, a school that once gave grad students a chance, is focusing on just undergrad grades. such is the way the game is played.

 

nothing's definitive of course. it's all a balance of risks. going the phd route just means there's a greater chance that OP won't get in and would subsequently have to rely on his phd for income. OP seems to know and accept that, so we should be supportive of his informed decision.

 

edit: and i'm sure we all know someone who got into med school with low gpa, low mcat, no ECs, bad hair, bad personality, etc. But no one seems to mention the hundreds more who don't get in for every one that does.

[invincible110]

Thanks for all your comments.

 

I still really want to do medicine. I would LOVE to practice medicine and do research at the same time. I believe I can gain a lot of skills in a PhD, and I know it doesn't guarantee anything. But at the same time, I don't feel comfortable having no back up if medicine doesn't work out.

 

During my PhD I plan to do the MCAT again (multiple times if necessary). I believe my GPA will be competitive for schools that only look at best 2-3 years. Improving my MCAT however is my major obstacle right now.

 

Well thats my plan, I hope it goes well...

[GGGSaint]

Thanks for all your comments.

 

I still really want to do medicine. I would LOVE to practice medicine and do research at the same time. I believe I can gain a lot of skills in a PhD, and I know it doesn't guarantee anything. But at the same time, I don't feel comfortable having no back up if medicine doesn't work out.

 

During my PhD I plan to do the MCAT again (multiple times if necessary). I believe my GPA will be competitive for schools that only look at best 2-3 years. Improving my MCAT however is my major obstacle right now.

 

Well thats my plan, I hope it goes well...

 

Just wanted to say best of luck to you! You seem to be working real hard and deserve things to fall your way.

 

Btw, having a PhD done at 26? That is impressive and a good backup in case things don't work out with med.

[invincible110]

GGG- Thank you for your encouragement. I have been feeling down ever since getting rejected from med school, and really want to pick myself up and forget about it so that I can concentrate on my research. All your words of encouragement really help. Thank you.

[oncoman]

all the best! keep focused you can do it

[Dr.Henderson]

holy old thread bump batman