Canadians going to UCD!

[Tee Oh]

As we speak $6000 are being wired over to Ireland Always knew it was going to cost a lot but once you see the money leave that's when it really hits you!

 

I thought I'd start this thread for any Canadians who are going or thinking of going to UCD this September. It would be great to know a few people before landing in Ireland and we may be able to help each other out as we prepare for our departure.

 

So here's what I've done so far….

 

-wired over the deposit through RBC. It takes at least a few business days for the bank in Ireland to receive your money so make sure you keep this in mind so you don't miss the deadline to accept the offer.

 

-applied for line of credit at RBC. RBC has the professional line of credit for 150K but because I am leaving the country my parents have to co-sign (they think I'll marry an Irish or get kidnapped by a leprechaun and not return )

 

-as for the rest (I calculated at least another 150K but not sure if this is too much or too little ), I'm looking to take out another line of credit with my parents. My agent is trying to figure out if it will be best to have two separate lines of credits or combine to have one line of credit.

 

-going to look into Government grants next

 

 

That's all for now,

[Tee Oh]

still have to iron out all the details. The student line of credit is prime but not 100% sure on the pay back scheme. If possible also consider taking out a personal line of credit, with your parents. I was quoted prime + 0.5%. Not sure about pay back but will find out all this hopefully soon but for the personal I don't think there's a set payback time.

 

Good luck!

[el911128]

I am in the process of applying for an RBC line of credit to potentially fund this adventure! Still unsure if I'm going, but if I do go to Ireland it will definitely be UCD. Are you going to fund the whole thing through line of credit? My parents won't be able to help me out much and I have no other real assets. The financial adviser was optimistic about getting enough but said I may need more than one co-signer.

 

Money aside, what has everyone found in terms of research about the process of matching back in Canada for residency? I hear about Irish med students matching into all kinds of programs everywhere. I realize family med is the most viable option which is fine, but what are the barriers to becoming a family doctor having studied medicine in Ireland?

 

I really want to do this but I'm nervous about committing the money and realizing it's going to be incredibly difficult to come home.

[Sface]

I am in the process of applying for an RBC line of credit to potentially fund this adventure! Still unsure if I'm going, but if I do go to Ireland it will definitely be UCD. Are you going to fund the whole thing through line of credit? My parents won't be able to help me out much and I have no other real assets. The financial adviser was optimistic about getting enough but said I may need more than one co-signer.

 

Money aside, what has everyone found in terms of research about the process of matching back in Canada for residency? I hear about Irish med students matching into all kinds of programs everywhere. I realize family med is the most viable option which is fine, but what are the barriers to becoming a family doctor having studied medicine in Ireland?

 

I really want to do this but I'm nervous about committing the money and realizing it's going to be incredibly difficult to come home.

 

 

I personally know someone who went to the four year UCC program, graduate three years ago, has returned to canada and now runs a family medicine clinic in Toronto. In terms of matching, the real disadvantage is your lack of networking in Canda. Even if you do a round or two in Canada, iits not very much. However it shouldn't be too much of a problem if your exam scores are high and your interviews go well. You won't be ranked lower because you studied abroad. And if youre interested in family medicine, its very easy to get positions in rural Canada.

 

Personally, I think its better to go to Ireland and get your MD and face the challenges of coming back to Canada to practice then to not go and get your MD at all.

[mtb2011]

I personally know someone who went to the four year UCC program, graduate three years ago, has returned to canada and now runs a family medicine clinic in Toronto. In terms of matching, the real disadvantage is your lack of networking in Canda. Even if you do a round or two in Canada, iits not very much. However it shouldn't be too much of a problem if your exam scores are high and your interviews go well. You won't be ranked lower because you studied abroad. And if youre interested in family medicine, its very easy to get positions in rural Canada.

 

Personally, I think its better to go to Ireland and get your MD and face the challenges of coming back to Canada to practice then to not go and get your MD at all.

 

But isn't enrolment higher in irish schools now in comparison to 3 years ago?

 

Do you know how many rounds specifically you are allowed to do in north america if you attend irish schools?

[icedecappe]

Personally, I think its better to go to Ireland and get your MD and face the challenges of coming back to Canada to practice then to not go and get your MD at all.

 

I agree. Better to face the challenges on the back end rather than the front end. All it takes is one blemish and you can kiss Canadian schools good bye. Add another 2 years (masters degree), a year off, or another undergad to fix that blemish and you're still looking at a lottery interview (e.g. Queens 15 min interview 5 questions).

 

If you go to Ireland, you lose no years, and have a high chance of returning via one route or another if you do the electives, make the contacts, ace your exams. The debt is a major downfall, but the stability of a doctor's salary ensures that you will pay it off. Fighting on the back end makes more sense in my opinion if you can afford it.

[Sface]

But isn't enrolment higher in irish schools now in comparison to 3 years ago?

 

Do you know how many rounds specifically you are allowed to do in north america if you attend irish schools?

 

 

Im not sure about enrolment numbers, but I am quite sure that you are allowed to do 2 international rotations.

[mtb2011]

Im not sure about enrolment numbers, but I am quite sure that you are allowed to do 2 international rotations.

 

two rotations is not very good..but thats not even what im worried about.

 

im hoping it would be possible to do observerships during breaks, even if we dont get credit or get paid for it. its a small price to pay to get more LORs. However, does anyone know how malpractice insurance works? I don't think canadian or american hospitals are very open to random IMGs shadowing their physicians without having insurance (even though you may not even be doing anything). Do you guys know if irish schools cover insurance for the entire 12 month period, or just for the school year?

[leviathan]

two rotations is not very good..but thats not even what im worried about.

 

im hoping it would be possible to do observerships during breaks, even if we dont get credit or get paid for it. its a small price to pay to get more LORs. However, does anyone know how malpractice insurance works? I don't think canadian or american hospitals are very open to random IMGs shadowing their physicians without having insurance (even though you may not even be doing anything). Do you guys know if irish schools cover insurance for the entire 12 month period, or just for the school year?

I've been observing physicians during every break from school. When I was with an internist they didn't ask for insurance, but when I was in the OR, they did. My school was really nice and provided me with malpractice insurance at no extra cost. Hopefully Irish schools do the same.

[mtb2011]

I've been observing physicians during every break from school. When I was with an internist they didn't ask for insurance, but when I was in the OR, they did. My school was really nice and provided me with malpractice insurance at no extra cost. Hopefully Irish schools do the same.

 

leviathan, these observerships you did...does your school recognize them? or did you do them for interest/getting better LORS? if your school recognizes them as valid rotations, then i see why they dont charge you extra.

[Tee Oh]

Congratulations!

On the 150 grand from RBC what was the interest rate (was it prime?)? And when do you have to start paying back the principle (is it 12 months after grad)?

 

I am about to hit up the banks for money

 

So here are the details of my line of credit through RBC:

 

-$150,000, student professional line of credit

 

-need a co-signer cause leaving country

-given in 4 equal payments at the start of each year, i.e $37,500 per year (must show proof of enrollment before they'll release the next installment).

-interest is prime only

-monthly payments: must pay interest payments only

-repayment: 12 month after grad, at which time interest is prime + 1% and you have to start paying back principle, although my agent did not know how much that would be.

 

**also took out loan/life insurance on the $150,000. It's relatively cheap as you only pay a fixed rate per $1000/per month that you withdraw. I think this is better than taking out life insurance for the full $150,000 as your premiums will be based on the full amount.

[Tee Oh]

I agree. Better to face the challenges on the back end rather than the front end. All it takes is one blemish and you can kiss Canadian schools good bye. Add another 2 years (masters degree), a year off, or another undergad to fix that blemish and you're still looking at a lottery interview (e.g. Queens 15 min interview 5 questions).

 

If you go to Ireland, you lose no years, and have a high chance of returning via one route or another if you do the electives, make the contacts, ace your exams. The debt is a major downfall, but the stability of a doctor's salary ensures that you will pay it off. Fighting on the back end makes more sense in my opinion if you can afford it.

 

I could not agree more! If your dream is medicine, if it is your passion and you do not see yourself in any other career, and you get into an Irish school, then go for it! I think it's too much of a gamble to take a year off and try to reapply to a Canadian school. And one should never do a grad degree just to increase their chances of getting into a Canadian school- I do not think it adds much weight. MAC gives you an extra .04 on your score, I think; Ottawa and Western do not care if you have a grad degree; Northern wants ppl from the North; Queen's you have to have a killer MCAT score, esp on the writing; only UofT will truly consider you grad degree if you meet the cut-offs but even then its a lottery. Just read the other forums, there are ppl who are not even being interviewed with close to 4.0 GPAs and high MCAT scores (assuming they're telling the truth).

 

And grad school is hard! If you love research do it! But if you want to be a doctor, you get into an Irish school, and you can secure the funds, then do it!

And as ice mentions, you'll pay back the loan!

[mtb2011]

I could not agree more! If your dream is medicine, if it is your passion and you do not see yourself in any other career, and you get into an Irish school, then go for it! I think it's too much of a gamble to take a year off and try to reapply to a Canadian school. And one should never do a grad degree just to increase their chances of getting into a Canadian school- I do not think it adds much weight. MAC gives you an extra .04 on your score, I think; Ottawa and Western do not care if you have a grad degree; Northern wants ppl from the North; Queen's you have to have a killer MCAT score, esp on the writing; only UofT will truly consider you grad degree if you meet the cut-offs but even then its a lottery. Just read the other forums, there are ppl who are not even being interviewed with close to 4.0 GPAs and high MCAT scores (assuming they're telling the truth).

 

And grad school is hard! If you love research do it! But if you want to be a doctor, you get into an Irish school, and you can secure the funds, then do it!

And as ice mentions, you'll pay back the loan!

 

i agree. grad school sucks. i only did it to increase my chances of getting into med school. big mistake. on the other hand, if I continue to do research, it will help my chances of matching into residency as an IMG. nonetheless, (cell-line) research sucks.

[jnuts]

leviathan, these observerships you did...does your school recognize them? or did you do them for interest/getting better LORS? if your school recognizes them as valid rotations, then i see why they dont charge you extra.

 

I've done an observership, and in general I'd highly recommend doing as many as you'd like. But there are a few caveats. I am only speaking from a Canadian in Ireland perspective (specifically RCSI) the situation is likely different other places.

 

Observerships are postings with a doctor or department that are severly restricted. Observers are not supposed to have any patient contact and are not supposed to have access to patient charts. Of course, most supervisors don't strictly adhere to these limitations but that's neither here nor there. Because of these limitations, observerships do not count for academic credit and often do not require malpractice insurance.

 

A little aside here, free malpractice insurance is available to Irish medical students through MPS though some Canadian schools do not accept it as providing adequate coverage.

 

Observerships also do not count as Canadian clinical experience when it comes down to Residency applications and letters you garner from them would likely be red flagged. Doing observerships after your pre-clinical years is also a no-no.

 

No Canadian clinicals can be used for academic credit in Ireland. That includes full electives and certainly observerships. There is a certain amount of poetic justice in the fact that the Irish schools are just as skeptical about the Canadian cirriculum.

 

That takes care of the negatives of observerships, now here's why you want to do them. Observerships are a great way of making contact with departments/doctors/specialities with whom you'd like to get electives or residency down the line. They provide early exposure to specialities and give you a chance to shop around a bit. Waiting until Clinical electives (3rd year) to decided what you'd like to do is not a good idea as those very limited electives should be targeted to a specific specialty and/or program. Observerships also can also familiarize you with the ins-and-outs of a particular hospital or team so that when that elective rolls around you can hit the ground running.

 

Finally, Observerships are mostly free and much easier than electives to get. You can contact Doctors directly to set them up.

[mtb2011]

I've done an observership, and in general I'd highly recommend doing as many as you'd like. But there are a few caveats. I am only speaking from a Canadian in Ireland perspective (specifically RCSI) the situation is likely different other places.

 

Observerships are postings with a doctor or department that are severly restricted. Observers are not supposed to have any patient contact and are not supposed to have access to patient charts. Of course, most supervisors don't strictly adhere to these limitations but that's neither here nor there. Because of these limitations, observerships do not count for academic credit and often do not require malpractice insurance.

 

A little aside here, free malpractice insurance is available to Irish medical students through MPS though some Canadian schools do not accept it as providing adequate coverage.

 

Observerships also do not count as Canadian clinical experience when it comes down to Residency applications and letters you garner from them would likely be red flagged. Doing observerships after your pre-clinical years is also a no-no.

 

No Canadian clinicals can be used for academic credit in Ireland. That includes full electives and certainly observerships. There is a certain amount of poetic justice in the fact that the Irish schools are just as skeptical about the Canadian cirriculum.

 

That takes care of the negatives of observerships, now here's why you want to do them. Observerships are a great way of making contact with departments/doctors/specialities with whom you'd like to get electives or residency down the line. They provide early exposure to specialities and give you a chance to shop around a bit. Waiting until Clinical electives (3rd year) to decided what you'd like to do is not a good idea as those very limited electives should be targeted to a specific specialty and/or program. Observerships also can also familiarize you with the ins-and-outs of a particular hospital or team so that when that elective rolls around you can hit the ground running.

 

Finally, Observerships are mostly free and much easier than electives to get. You can contact Doctors directly to set them up.

 

alright this sounds good. this was my initial plan. but it kinda sucks that LORs from observerships would be red flagged. I guess the idea is to come back and do electives with some of the people you shadow. That way, hopefully they can comment that they have known you for years, rather than just 6 weeks...no? how many real electives did RSCI let u do?

[el911128]

I could not agree more! If your dream is medicine, if it is your passion and you do not see yourself in any other career, and you get into an Irish school, then go for it! I think it's too much of a gamble to take a year off and try to reapply to a Canadian school. And one should never do a grad degree just to increase their chances of getting into a Canadian school- I do not think it adds much weight. MAC gives you an extra .04 on your score, I think; Ottawa and Western do not care if you have a grad degree; Northern wants ppl from the North; Queen's you have to have a killer MCAT score, esp on the writing; only UofT will truly consider you grad degree if you meet the cut-offs but even then its a lottery. Just read the other forums, there are ppl who are not even being interviewed with close to 4.0 GPAs and high MCAT scores (assuming they're telling the truth).

 

And grad school is hard! If you love research do it! But if you want to be a doctor, you get into an Irish school, and you can secure the funds, then do it!

And as ice mentions, you'll pay back the loan!

 

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement and advice I've found that I'll be able to secure the money so I'm going to put down the deposit for UCD!

[leviathan]

leviathan, these observerships you did...does your school recognize them? or did you do them for interest/getting better LORS? if your school recognizes them as valid rotations, then i see why they dont charge you extra.

They are not recognized / not for education credit. You're just hanging out with an MD and maybe they teach you a few things, but observing a doctor is nothing like a structured clinical rotation.

[Tee Oh]

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement and advice I've found that I'll be able to secure the money so I'm going to put down the deposit for UCD!

 

Congrats! Very happy to hear you secured money! Yet another huge weight lifted off your shoulders!!

[Sface]

I could not agree more! If your dream is medicine, if it is your passion and you do not see yourself in any other career, and you get into an Irish school, then go for it! I think it's too much of a gamble to take a year off and try to reapply to a Canadian school.

 

 

i disagree with this - taking a year off to reapply can be a great thing. first of all, you have another chance to go to a canadian school, where you will save a ton of money, and obviously it will be easier for you to find a residency. with a year off you can travel or work full time to help afford irish schools if you reapply.

[el911128]

Has anyone made a group on facebook for UCD class of 2014?

[Tee Oh]

Has anyone made a group on facebook for UCD class of 2014?

 

You read my mind! I was looking for one but could not find anything. Since it seems all other schools are creating one UCD 2014 should have one too!

 

Have you started to make the group? Do you need help? Let me know!

[el911128]

You read my mind! I was looking for one but could not find anything. Since it seems all other schools are creating one UCD 2014 should have one too!

 

Have you started to make the group? Do you need help? Let me know!

 

I haven't yet, I've never made a group before but I imagine it isn't that hard to figure out... Should it be for Canadians/North Americans going to UCD for 2014, or just class of 2014 in general?

 

It'll be good to put some names and faces together before going over!

[Tee Oh]

I haven't yet, I've never made a group before but I imagine it isn't that hard to figure out... Should it be for Canadians/North Americans going to UCD for 2014, or just class of 2014 in general?

 

It'll be good to put some names and faces together before going over!

 

I think it should be for the whole class of 2014. Once we start in September it would be great to have a fb page for everyone. Although we'll have to figure out a way to get non-Canadians to join the group cause I'm not sure how many non-Canadians read this forum. We can try posting our page on other forums (Value MD, Student Doctor) and maybe on UCD meds/medsoc fb page.

 

Just some thoughts. What do others think?

 

Only ~4 months left!

[Prism]

I'm coming to this discussion a month late, so please forgive me if I say anything a bit silly.

 

I see that UCD medicine does have a "class of 2014" Facebook page. What about a graduate entry page for the class of 2014, since we will be in our own stream for the first two years?

[Vje]

I just gave up my spot at UCD, so someone should hear some good news soon. =)