Master of Physiology at UofT or Sabba Medschool

[dedemed]

Hi everyone,

 

I am so confused and I really need some help. I got accepted into masters of physiology at UofT and also applied to sabba and got into sabba carribean medschool. My cGPA is 3.2 and my GPA in my last four years is 3.7. I have studied undergrad for six years (two yrs in computer engineering and four years in biology). I have lots of volunteer work in hospital, president of club, volunteer research, one year employed in a hospital as a patient services assistant and health informatic clerk. I wrote MCAT and got 28M and planning to rewrite in June.

What do you think I should do?

Some ppl say masters is a waste of time others say it is not.

I really appreciate your help.

[nosuperman]

What specifically are your goals and how do you prioritize them? Do you just want to become a doctor? How important is working in Canada? How important is having the option to apply to competitive residencies? There are tons of threads on the forums about Caribbean schools, have you looked up the curriculum, match rates, etc? Are these problematic or would you be OK learning in those environments?

 

If you're considering a masters then why? Have you applied to schools in Canada? Would you consider doing another year or two of undergrad to boost your GPA?

 

All of these things greatly influence the answer.

[future_doc]

If it is your desire to be a physician, opportunity knocks and I would go. Work out the details for the future later - one step at a time. You can always do a Masters later if you wish. GL in your decision at the cross roads. There is an expression, "Be careful what you wish for b/c you may get your wish", haha. No regrets, think about it and follow your gut.

[UserName]

First it's Saba

 

I agree with what nosuperman said. the decision will be heavily based on the points that he raised.

 

i also recommend the valuemd.com forums for all things caribbean. they have a forum for Saba and lots of people to answer specific questions.

 

i got accepted to Saba but i will not be going. chose a "real" international medical school instead. i.e. a school that graduates people for its own country and has its own residency program and great hospital. i felt it was the wisest option. caribbean seems just too volatile at the current trend of US residency spots being less and less available for IMGs.

[whattodonow]

How much harder is it now to get a residency in the USA as a IMG than it was say 3-4 years ago? Places like Ireland are good as they graduate students for their own country but IMGs who study there can't really do residency if things don't work out in North America. Do you still think Ireland or Saba would be better than say a DO degree in the states for Canadians?

[leviathan]

i got accepted to Saba but i will not be going. chose a "real" international medical school instead. i.e. a school that graduates people for its own country and has its own residency program and great hospital. i felt it was the wisest option. caribbean seems just too volatile at the current trend of US residency spots being less and less available for IMGs.

So where did you end up going? I heard it's going to be very difficult to match in Australia or Ireland very soon. Canada doesn't have a very good match rate from these countries either. It's going to be tough to match in the US in the coming years as well, unless you have clinical experience there via a Caribbean school or a DO/MD school in the US.

[leviathan]

How much harder is it now to get a residency in the USA as a IMG than it was say 3-4 years ago? Places like Ireland are good as they graduate students for their own country but IMGs who study there can't really do residency if things don't work out in North America. Do you still think Ireland or Saba would be better than say a DO degree in the states for Canadians?

I don't think you'll have any difficulty getting a residency in the US if you attended a US medical school.

[redshifteffect]

I don't think you'll have any difficulty getting a residency in the US if you attended a US medical school.

 

Having a US degree certainly makes you stand out compared to FMGs, but the issue is that it's getting harder and harder to get sponsorship from hospitals. Most are no longer willing to do H1B, and those that do J1 will make you leave the country for 2 years after finishing residency. Many of those guys used to come to Australia where they could at least get paid while waiting out their time, but this is not going to be possible as well.

 

So the issue remains that with more US med students gradating, residency places losing funding it's not going to be easy to match in the US even with a US degree.

[leviathan]

Having a US degree certainly makes you stand out compared to FMGs, but the issue is that it's getting harder and harder to get sponsorship from hospitals. Most are no longer willing to do H1B, and those that do J1 will make you leave the country for 2 years after finishing residency. Many of those guys used to come to Australia where they could at least get paid while waiting out their time, but this is not going to be possible as well.

 

So the issue remains that with more US med students gradating, residency places losing funding it's not going to be easy to match in the US even with a US degree.

Trust me, you will have NO trouble getting a match in the US if you graduated from a US school. Caribbean schools will start to get tricky in the future, though, even with US citizenship.

[Canada eh]

Yes.

 

Canadians who are US med grads are on par (if not better) as far as matching in Canada goes, compared to Canadian med grads.

 

The story is much much different from the Caribbean. According to draft data from Executive Director and CEO of Canadian Residency Matching Service, Sandra Banner, match rates for Canadians studying abroad are as follows:

 

41% from Australia (est. 350 Canadians currently there)

18% from Poland (est. >200Canadians currently there)

67% from Ireland (est. 500 Canadians currently there)

25% from Caribbean (est. >1000 Canadians currently there)

 

Further to that, I have heard that some schools in the Caribbean are not letting their students write the USMLEs if their practice scores are not high enough (resulting in artificially high school stats). I don't know what your best option is (I don't think anyone does except you), but I do think that a SABA acceptance may always be there for you in the future. Congrats on you acceptances and good luck.

[redshifteffect]

One quick thing about the Data above, 41% of those who applied from Australia or 41% of the est 350 students in Australia?

 

Because a lot of Canadians simply choose to stay to complete training in Australia...so it makes a difference which one of the above it is.

[Canada eh]

One quick thing about the Data above, 41% of those who applied from Australia or 41% of the est 350 students in Australia?

 

Because a lot of Canadians simply choose to stay to complete training in Australia...so it makes a difference which one of the above it is.

 

The former of course. There was a 41% rate of successful match in Canada for IMGs who are CSA (graduating from Australia) who applied for a Canadian residency.

 

Sandra also said that things may change for Australia in the future given how they are just starting to see a big jump in CSA matriculants.

[enmeds]

Has Sandra Banner ever talked about Osteopathic Medical Students and how they match? I remember reading on the forum that she said they are treated like IMG's even though on paper they can match in the CMG stream? Is any of that true?

[mtb2011]

Yes.

 

Canadians who are US med grads are on par (if not better) as far as matching in Canada goes, compared to Canadian med grads.

 

The story is much much different from the Caribbean. According to draft data from Executive Director and CEO of Canadian Residency Matching Service, Sandra Banner, match rates for Canadians studying abroad are as follows:

 

41% from Australia (est. 350 Canadians currently there)

18% from Poland (est. >200Canadians currently there)

67% from Ireland (est. 500 Canadians currently there)

25% from Caribbean (est. >1000 Canadians currently there)

 

Further to that, I have heard that some schools in the Caribbean are not letting their students write the USMLEs if their practice scores are not high enough (resulting in artificially high school stats). I don't know what your best option is (I don't think anyone does except you), but I do think that a SABA acceptance may always be there for you in the future. Congrats on you acceptances and good luck.

 

are you sure these match results (specifically for ireland) are not % of those who were interviewed? if this is the case, it would thoroughly overestimate that number.

[leviathan]

Those stats are probably from the % of applicants who apply, not the % who are over there. Otherwise it is all speculation as CaRMS does not know the true number of people studying in any country.

 

BTW, Saba, and probably other schools out there, do require you to write an 'exit exam' before finishing on the island and writing the Step 1. The majority of people still pass the exit exam, but based on the number of people who fail the exit exam, the actual Step 1 pass would be lower if people didn't have to write an exit exam first. Without an eval exam it would probably be more like 80-85% pass Step 1 than the 95-100% that actually write the exam which they post on their website.

[UserName]

So where did you end up going? I heard it's going to be very difficult to match in Australia or Ireland very soon. Canada doesn't have a very good match rate from these countries either. It's going to be tough to match in the US in the coming years as well, unless you have clinical experience there via a Caribbean school or a DO/MD school in the US.

 

i will be attending the American University of Beirut. pretty solid program for the region (probably the best) and well known at some good IM programs in the US such as Duke and Emory. but lots of other personal reasons as well as i'm from the region. not interested in going back to Canada unless i really have to, and AUB has its own residency programs and research going on in case i need a couple of years to boost my c.v.

[leviathan]

i will be attending the American University of Beirut. pretty solid program for the region (probably the best) and well known at some good IM programs in the US such as Duke and Emory. but lots of other personal reasons as well as i'm from the region. not interested in going back to Canada unless i really have to, and AUB has its own residency programs and research going on in case i need a couple of years to boost my c.v.

Ahh, well as long as you have a good shot *somewhere* for residency, right? Best of luck!

[jnuts]

Those stats are probably from the % of applicants who apply, not the % who are over there. Otherwise it is all speculation as CaRMS does not know the true number of people studying in any country.

 

BTW, Saba, and probably other schools out there, do require you to write an 'exit exam' before finishing on the island and writing the Step 1. The majority of people still pass the exit exam, but based on the number of people who fail the exit exam, the actual Step 1 pass would be lower if people didn't have to write an exit exam first. Without an eval exam it would probably be more like 80-85% pass Step 1 than the 95-100% that actually write the exam which they post on their website.

 

The line from Ms. Banner was that those are the data for students who stay in the match through the entire proccess. It wouldn't include people who drop out for various reasons (like matching in the States second round).

[redshifteffect]

So this data would tend to overestimate the true match rate, because it would leave out people that applied but didn't even get an interview, is that correct?

[mtb2011]

go to saba. the u of Torture m.sc physiology program is not all that great. just my 2cents. good luck

[Jessie]

I would not go to the carribean in your shoes. You're a smart guy. Your grades are good. You should consider Canadian schools or even American Schools before the carribean. The carribean should be your last choice. Anyone can get into the carribean, you just need money. I know over 12 people who are at the carribean right now, all of them were not so bright in school. I would never ever want any of them as a doctor. I wouldn't even trust them to put a needle through my vein. 3.7 in your last four years is quite good. Why the carribean of all places? There is so much stigma towards the carribean... and for good reason. My dad has been telling me to go to the carribean since grade 12, but I just couldn't. I would rather try here, really try hard here, before going there. My friend got into the carribean and she's celebrating on facebook. Anyone can get in, why celebrate? I don't mean to insult it, I'm telling it how it is. I think you're smart. If you really want to go to the carribean, go to St. George. I heard it's the most respected and they have real entrance cutoffs.

[Jessie]

But, I don't want to affect your future. Do what you feel is right. Think about it. Think of all your options, do your research intensely and then decide what you feel will help you achieve your goal. I wish you the best OP.

[rayjay]

why not celebrate? if she is truly passionate about medical school, she has a right to celebrate something she accomplished. Getting into a carribean school (despite the stigma) is something to be happy about, you're on a track to becoming a doctor. At the end of the day you are studying about the human body...we all are.

 

Also, yes there is a stigma, I am not denying that in the slightest. But there are some excellent students that go to the Caribbean schools that just could not get into Canada. I cannot count how many students I know that had solid stats, graduate degrees (MSc and/or PhD) but just could not get in no matter how hard/how many times they applied.

 

In the end we're all following our dream of becoming a physician, some people just go about it a different way.

 

(for the record I'm not a Caribbean med student advocating for the schools)

[leviathan]

The carribean should be your last choice. Anyone can get into the carribean, you just need money. I know over 12 people who are at the carribean right now, all of them were not so bright in school. I would never ever want any of them as a doctor. I wouldn't even trust them to put a needle through my vein.

So what is your position about other international medical schools? Don't tell me you don't realize that anyone can get into ANY of these schools if you have the money, whether it be the Caribbean, the UK, Ireland, Australia, etc. They're all about profit. There isn't a recruiter for Australian med schools on this forum for nothing. Having said that, there are cutoffs for all of these schools, and establishing a school for profit doesn't mean that they don't provide a good education.