Problem w/graduate applicant info - can you help?

[Guest LaGriega]

OK, so for months I have been carefully reading the Ottawa U info and thinking I would be classified as a graduate applicant, since I already have a PhD. I even called them once and we talked about how they would calculate my GPA.

 

Then today I called to arrange a tour, since I am in Ottawa anyway, and a different person told me that the "graduate applicant" category only applies to people in their last year of graduate school. For me, they would use my undergraduate GPA (which was years and years ago, before my productive research career).

 

Is this really true? Can Ottawa U really be this ridiculous? I think I am now classified as out of province, and my 3.69 is too low for the 3.83 cutoff.

[Guest Shahenshah]

hopefully a graduate student who got in, can give you more input, but I would suggest that since it looks like you clearly got two different responses, that you contact Nicole Racine..She is a super nice lady and I'm sure she can give you the closure/answer you are seeking..I don't have her email addy on me now, but I'm sure a search on ottawa U's main website should yield one..

[Guest LaGriega]

I just sent e-mail to Ms. Racine - and it got auto-forwarded to the same person who already gave me the confusing answer. I am sure they are not very impressed with my intelligence now - they are probably thinking, damn it, I have answered this person's question four times and they are still asking the same stupid question...

 

this process is so frustrating, and I really appreciate your help.

[Guest UOMeds06]

Hi,

Nicole took a couple weeks off (she gets over worked at the beginning of the year....the middle of the year...the end of the year too....well, pretty much all year). But she should be back if not by now, then by Monday. I'd try calling maybe (if you're afraid that you might have your email forwarded again). Good luck!

 

UOMeds06

[Guest wassabi101]

Hi LaGriega,

 

That sounds completely ridiculous to me! :\ I'm a grad student who successfully made it in after my Master's and I never heard of such requirement for them to consider your graduate marks...Basically if you're a grad student in any year, you have to meet the undergrad cutoff of 3.3 and then they ask you for proof of productivity (CV, articles published, abstracts etc.) and you go from there...your graduate marks will weigh differently depending on whether you took a course based degree or not (see previous posting by Kirsteen).

 

If I were you, I would apply and wait to hear for your confirmation. By the way, who are you talking to? If you get me a name, I'll stop by the office this week to clarify for you. I'll also ask a few classmates that I know got in after one year of Master's if they encountered any difficulties with this.

 

Cheers,

 

wassabi

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

One thing that might be muddling this issue is that Ottawa may be one university that prefers to receive graduate applications from graduate students who are in the final year of their graduate program. This policy helps to prevent graduate students from jumping their graduate study ship part-way through their program without completing it, to enter medical studies. Many schools seem concerned about this and ask that graduate applicants have a letter sent from their graduate supervisor, stating the expected date of degree completion. If this is the case, then as long as you are in the final year of your PhD, then you may be fine, but again, best to get accurate information from the medical school office itself.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest EJL]

Hi,

 

I probably can't answer your question, but I can offer some advice. On my first attempt at applying to medical school, I was in the beginning of my second year of a two year master's degree. I had hoped to get in after finishing my degree. It didn't happen. I ended up doing some research abroad while my thesis was in its end stages and re-applying. I officially graduated in February '03, even though I wasn't an official student after last September. I'll never really know whether or not I was considered as a graduate from a Master's degree, or a student who was in the "end stages" I don't think that you are not considered as a graduate student, but I'd check to see. Some questions to think about asking would be: How long have you been out of academia? Are you doing a post-doc right now?

 

Finally, the most important thing to remember also is that they're going to look at your academic achievements - I'm assuming that you've attended various conferences and that you've had some publications throughout the course of your phd. You will probably also need a letter of reference from your supervisor as well, as your supervisor can attest to your productivity as a graduate student. All these factors should determine in the end what your status will be. But, like everyone else said, you should ask. A good person to start with would be the assistant dean of admissions. Most likely, his email is on the uofo medical school website and from the interactions I've had with him, I think he will answer your email. I never emailed him directly, but he's probably the best person to ask for an exact answer.

 

Good luck with your application, and I hope I've helped.

EJL

[Guest LaGriega]

Your advice is very helpful. I completed my grad work more than 10 years ago and have a long list of publications etc. plus running my own program with my own grants, so it is really frustrating to be told that only my undergrad GPA matters for the cutoff.

 

I had wanted to talk to someone there in person while I am in town, so I could find out whether I am competitive and save the OMSAS fee if I am not (they are not as clear about the GPA cutoffs for grad applicants). It looks like I should just go ahead and apply anyway.

[Guest g22g]

Dr. LaGriega,

During my Ottawa interview, I interviewed at the same time as someone who long ago completed his Ph.D. (He is not in the 2007 class).

Just make sure that you have a higher than 3.3 in undergrad and a 3.75 in grad("an A average"). Having a Ph.D. will assist you for the subcommittee versus a Masters (like I have heard 2 pts instead of 1) but research production and supervisor letter will have the most impact.

 

I hope you come to Ottawa in the spring,

g22g

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

Some of the stuff you've mentioned above reminds me of a question that I've had niggling at me. Ottawa requires that your graduate average be "A", and you mention an OMSAS GPA of 3.75 as the equivalent to Ottawa's "A". But how is this surmised from the OMSAS chart, itself? According to the OMSAS chart (using scale 7 for Ottawa): 3.70=A-; 3.80=some ambiguous zone; 3.90=A. Does this mean that any GPA above 3.70=A? That is, how does Ottawa view any GPA that lies between 3.71 and 3.89? Are these considered to be As or A-s? Blurry stuff. :rolleyes

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest wassabi101]

If I remember correctly, OMSAS doesn't give you the option to even enter in your graduate marks in the calculation of your overall OMSAS GPA...

 

So only once you send Ottawa your graduate marks do they assess the *A* rule. For my degree, we didn't get GPA's, only letters, and according to Dr. Hebert, when I spoke to him, he told me A meant A and not A-. But he did say, depending on whether it was course based or not, one A- or B+ wouldn't necessarily exclude you right off the batt if your other credentials were good.

 

Good luck!

Cheers,

 

wassabi

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

You know what, you're absolutely correct on the graduate marks calculation re: OMSAS. Do Ottawa, however, prompt you to send in your graduate marks at a later date, then? Somehow, I didn't think they did this.

 

As to the A-rule, I had thought that it was strict. It's nice to hear that it may not be.

 

Cheers for the info, wassabi!

Kirsteen

[Guest LaGriega]

 

Yes, it's true. Ottawa only counts your graduate marks if you are still in graduate school.

 

Even if you complete your Ph.D. at a top school and run your own research program for five years, your grad marks don't count. Instead, you can be cut off based on the too-low undergrad GPA that you earned 20 years ago while working to pay your way through school.

 

I am very disappointed that I am not going to be applying to Ottawa U this year. They want mature physicians who will work in underserved and northern communities? I am ready and willing, but they don't want me.

[Guest cause2003]

Hello,

I'm supposed to defend my thesis in October. Do you think I will be considered for an interview if my grad marks made the cut-off last year but my undergrad didn't? If they still want us to be in Grad school should I just not submit my bound thesis until a later date (a requirement for graduation)?

By the way this is stupid.

-Cause

[Guest g22g]

Dear LaGriega,

I am not sure that I follow you in regards to U of O not taking you graduate marks after you graduate. They never average you graduate marks into a calcuation at any stage, and there are two hurdles that anyone on the special graduate track needs to make regardless of when they completed their degree:

 

1. above a WGPA ~3.3 as an undergraduate.

2. a "A" average as a graduate student.

 

If you have different information could you please source it? Could it be a change from what occured last year?

Regardless, I wish you the best with your progress. Are you applying to Mac?

 

Dear Cause,

See above, and call yourself if necessary. From what I know Master's students are required to defend before maltriculation while, Ph.D. are required to submit to committee before maltriculation. I do know that (as of this second, and in this year's class) the Ph.D. policy is not stricly enforced.

 

Cheers,

Dr. g22g

[Guest cause2003]

Thanks for the reply. My situation is similar to EJL story above; I will defend in the fall however I'm not going to have it reflected on my transcript until a later date. So technically I'm in the final stages of grad school now (M.Sc. by the way). My case is being looked at by the dean of admissions, and if they say "we won't consider you for an interview if you have graduated":rolleyes , I will delay handing in my thesis until it is OK to do so. Once they get back to me I will post the information because it affects every student who currently has a masters and didn't have the undergraduate grades to make the cut.

 

Also, EJL did they actually invite you to submit additional materials to the graduate review subcommittee last year? I got to this stage last year but wasn't offered an interview.

[Guest EJL]

Hi Cause2003,

 

Indeed, I did get invited to submit my graduate portfolio. What was better about the second time around was that I'd had a 'stronger' CV (I think that I'd submitted a couple more conference abstracts, and by that time, I'd also had two manuscripts under review and one other published). This was a significant improvement over the first time that I'd applied (and I got interviewed the first time), so I had only positive feelings that I'd be invited for an interview.

 

Note that even though I wasn't registered at the time of the actual interview (I was in Holland doing related research betweeen September 2002 and January 2003) I was still considered a graduate student. My thesis was submitted in July 2002 before I left to go to Holland, but the reviews didn't come back until after the deadline for a final submission in the fall semester. Therefore, I didn't actually submit my thesis until February 2003, when I got back.

 

This is a very grey area. I think that in September 2002, I had to register for one last class because I'd missed two credits. This meant that I just had to sign up to do two more resesarch credits, but I don't think that I was considered to be a student. It's difficult to say, especially because it's a weird transition phase. If you think that you're in a similar position (maybe you're working in a lab after you've finished your master's thesis), I say go ahead and apply. If you're really concerned, like I said, get in touch with the medical school via email or telephone. They are super helpful there.

 

Good luck,

EJL

[Guest cause2003]

EJL,

 

I have the exact same situation that you went through. I agree that there is a grey area and currently I am waiting for a reply form the admissions dean to get the exact date that it is ok to graduate on. Thanks again your post was helpful, I’ll keep you updated.

[Guest LaGriega]

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that they average grad marks in with undergrad.

 

The special grad track is only for people still in grad school. Once you complete your grad degree, the 3.3/A criterion no longer applies, your stellar grad school achievements can't rescue your lacklustre undergrad performance, and instead you are back to the regular undergrad GPA.

 

I think this is the most nonsensical rule I have encountered, in many years of dealing with university bureaucracy.

[Guest cause2003]

I agree.

[Guest g22g]

Dear LaGriega and others,

 

My mistake and I'll spread the word to see that it be considered adjusting.

 

Warm regards,

g22g