MSc during residency

[gb35]

Something I've been considering is doing an MSc before an MD, largely because I think it would open some doors for me, and my dream job is to be a clinician-researcher in an academic center.

 

I've talked to a few residents though who did their MSc's as part of their residency. They got paid their resident's salaries, and I'm not sure if/by how much it prolonged their residencies.

 

How does this usually work?

 

For what it's worth, I'm not entirely sure what subspecialty I want to end up in, but it seems a safe bet that whatever I do will be an offshoot of internal medicine...

[moo]

What kind of MSc do you want to do? There are MPH/MHSc/MSPH degrees that are mostly geared to clinical researchers (stats, epidemiology, research methods, etc.). There are MSc degrees that are lab-based which very few clinicians undertake, unless they are interested in basic science research, in which case they would do a PhD most likely.

 

Most clinician-researchers do an MPH degree (or equivalent) to conduct clinical research.

 

I myself will likely be a clinician-researcher.

[gb35]

Well, actually, I was more interested in doing a lab based MSc, although it sounds like you're suggesting I do a PhD instead... My old supervisor had an MD, then did an MSc, and lecture at the University, ran a lab, and worked as a clinician... Sounds like my dream career.

 

How do you go about setting something like this up during a residency? Post-internal, I am most interested in oncology, allergy and immunology, and ID. A research graduate degree in microbiology, virology or immunology therefore makes the most sense, although I guess you could argue that an epidemiology masters with an ID subspecialty is a logical combo.

[moo]

I think most folks in ID end up doing an MPH and get into epidemiology of infectious diseases. Some do run labs as you say (I had an ID prof my second year of med school who was a MD/PhD and he still did some clinical work I think). Most of the MD/PhDs I've encountered do path or med micro, although there are some in oncology, ID and A&I. I had a friend in med school who was MD/PhD and ended up in rad onc. If I were you, I'd probably go apply for MD/PhD programs. I'm not sure how useful a MSc is if you want to be a clinician-basic scientist. I think for an academic appointment in a basic science field you probably would be better off with a MD/PhD. If you want to have an appointment in only a clinical department and conduct clinical research, a masters in epi or MPH would be fine and more than adequate.

 

As for setting this up in residency, you'd probably just take a leave of absence or do it post-residency. I'm not entirely sure though. A lot of residents who do MPHs do it after residency when they're out in practice and realize they need more epi skills for clinical research. Again, I don't know many residents who do a lab-based MSc. Most who are interested in basic science, as I said, do PhDs (usually are already MD/PhDs) and that is what I suggest you do. An MSc is kind of useless in my opinion. (There's a reason why there are no or very few MD/MSc (that are in basic sciences) programs in North America)

[Satsuma]

It would be a challenge in internal medicine to get the time to complete an MSc "during" your residency.

 

You can certainly do it after.

 

You can also look into the "clinician-scientist" program. This would allow you to complete something like an MSc while still being considered a resident and thus still entitled to receive your resident salary. Your residency length gets extended though.

[gb35]

Where would I find out more about this "clinician scientist" program?

 

Thank you BOTH for the great posts. I know I should be focused on getting into meds first, but I can't help getting ahead of myself here.

[moo]

It would be a challenge in internal medicine to get the time to complete an MSc "during" your residency.

 

You can certainly do it after.

 

You can also look into the "clinician-scientist" program. This would allow you to complete something like an MSc while still being considered a resident and thus still entitled to receive your resident salary. Your residency length gets extended though.

 

Are you talking about the CIP program (clinical investigator program)? This is a two year program that residents often do to improve their research skills. One of my friends is doing it--he is getting a PhD in Cambridge in informatics while enrolled in our CM program, so he gets two years of funding from this program (resident salary) and he has to find funding for the third year. I knew a few other residents when I did my MPH that are doing this program (their MPH/MHSc was part of their CIP).

 

Here is the link for it at UT: http://www.utoronto.ca/cip/about.html. Each school has its own links for applying.

[gb35]

Are you talking about the CIP program (clinical investigator program)? This is a two year program that residents often do to improve their research skills. One of my friends is doing it--he is getting a PhD in Cambridge in informatics while enrolled in our CM program, so he gets two years of funding from this program (resident salary) and he has to find funding for the third year. I knew a few other residents when I did my MPH that are doing this program (their MPH/MHSc was part of their CIP).

 

Here is the link for it at UT: http://www.utoronto.ca/cip/about.html. Each school has its own links for applying.

 

This sounds more or less exactly like what I was hoping for. I'll have to ask around and see which different schools have something similar.

[Satsuma]

Yep, that is exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for following up.

 

Another pro of waiting to do an MSc after meds is that you may have a better idea of what area you want to research.

 

I did an MSc beforehand, cause I thought I could solve all the unanswered questions I had in undergrad - planned on an academic career. But it wasn`t really for me. My area of research was interesting. But in meds, I just didn`t enjoy the clinical aspects of the fields pertaining to my grad work.

 

So now I have graduate degree(s) that are completely unrelated to my specialty.

 

If I was going to do benchwork type research again, I probably would still enjoy my original-type research, though. It is just that what I find interesting from a research perspective is not what I find rewarding from a clinical perspective. If that makes any sense!

 

So waiting may allow you to do research directly related to your chosen specialty - which could change several times in the process of med school.

Of course, doing it before, you may discover you really like research and you could skip med school all together and be a full-time researcher/scientist.

[gb35]

Thanks! Out of all the random questions I've asked on premed, this was probably some of the best advice I have received. I also found out Dal (my dream med school, and dream location to practice medicine) has a CIP program. Awesome.