Second Degree and OMSAS GPA

[Lucky Luke]

Hey Everyone,

 

I'm planning on doing a second degree (probably a business degree) after finishing my electrical engineering degree. I am able to comlete the business degree in 2 full years, provided that I have fulfilled the prerequisites of the degree and transfer credits from my engineering degree.

 

I have a few questions regarding this:

 

1) For the 2nd degree, will 2 year schools (like Western, Queen's, Dalhousie) ONLY look at the grades that I received while doing my 2nd degree (assuming I apply in my last year, or will they also include the transfer credits in the GPA calculation?)

 

2) Does OMSAS include the transfer credits when calculating your GPA for the 2nd degree?

 

3) Do these schools look at the OMSAS GPA or a GPA calculation of their own (considering let's say if they don't include transfer credits in the GPA calculation, but OMSAS does)

 

4) During my 2nd degree, is it possible to not get any credits transferred from my engineering degree (excluding prequisites), so that I can take new courses (which I haven't taken before) to full-fill the credit requirements?

 

I would really appreciate any comments to these questions..

[dreamer]

Hey Everyone,

 

I'm planning on doing a second degree (probably a business degree) after finishing my electrical engineering degree. I am able to comlete the business degree in 2 full years, provided that I have fulfilled the prerequisites of the degree and transfer credits from my engineering degree.

 

I have a few questions regarding this:

 

1) For the 2nd degree, will 2 year schools (like Western, Queen's, Dalhousie) ONLY look at the grades that I received while doing my 2nd degree (assuming I apply in my last, or will they also include the transfer credits in the GPA calculation?

 

2) Does OMSAS include the transfer credits when calculation your GPA for the 2nd degree?

 

3) Do these schools look at the OMSAS GPA or a GPA calculation of their own (considering let's say if they don't include transfer credits in the GPA calculation, but OMSAS does)

 

4) During my 2nd degree, is it possible to not get any credits transferred from my engineering degree (excluding prequisites), so that I can take new courses (which I haven't taken before) to full-fill the credit requirements?

 

I would really appreciate any comments to these questions..

 

1) They won't included transfer credits in the calculation. I'll assume those 2 years in business will be your best years in school. They'll only look at the two years you'll be in your business program. This is for Queens, Western's, Dal, McGill and U of S. For Calgary, they'll look at those 2 years initially and then your cGPA if your file goes for further review. For Ottawa, hope that your last year in engineering wasn't that bad!

 

2) No.

 

3) Hmm... I'm trying to ascertain your fixation with transfer credits. Obviously Ontario schools follow OMSAS and Dalhousie also follows OMSAS. I'm not sure what Calgary or McGill follow. U of S just calculates average, not GPA. I'm pretty sure transfer credits aren't taken account into your average for any of these schools. You don't get a "grade" for a transfer credit. It just sits there and allows you to finish the degree quicker...

 

4) Hmm... I'm not quite sure what you mean. But some people have been known to be 'lazy' about trying to get transfer credits for what they've taken in the past, in order to take similar courses again. But this isn't your case. If they do transfer the credits or not, you can still take those courses, since they're not the same course!

[nosuperman]

1. Yes. Presumably they may see all of your grades since OMSAS sends them your entire application, but they only care about/weight the ones relevant to their calculations.

 

2. No. These only "count" from the perspective of your second undergrad school not making you retake courses.

 

3. No. There is only one calculation of grades that can happen, because transfer credits don't actually count as you re-getting those grades, again they just make it so that you don't have to re-take courses/electives at your 2nd school.

 

4. You can do what you like in terms of options. Like say your new degree requires a 3rd year arts course, and you've already taken one, then no you don't have to use that old one. That being said you can't re-take a course you've already taken. Technically you can but med schools won't count it and it'll be a hit against you having a full courseload. As for required courses, again you'll transfer the credit but not the grade.

 

Edit: Woops dreamer beat me!

 

I'll give you an example since we both may have left some ambiguity in point 3. I'm currently doing a second undergrad, for which I require the entry level psych courses. I received two A+'s in those courses during my first undergrad. The only way those A+'s help me, is that I don't have to take the intro psychology courses this time around. My transcript won't show that I transferred two A+'s, it'll just show that I successfully completed the program requirements along with the grades from the courses I did end up having to take for the second undergrad.

[dreamer]

Hmm... Was just thinking for question 4), I would make sure you don't take anything that's "close" to what you have taken before. If you can get the transfer credit, try for it. You don't want to run into the situation of a medical school saying, "hey you took this course before in your previous degree and you're taking something very similar in your new degree. we won't accept this entire year of work." That would be disheartening.

 

So, instead, just take an easy breezy course in it's place! Even better! In general, courses required for your degree are harder than your electives...

 

And, another thing, for Western you gotta make sure you take enough upper year courses in each year. That's 3.0/5.0 courses at the senior (as defined as 2000 level) or above.

 

That's a ton of rules, on top of finishing your new degree in exactly 2 years. But that's what makes the second degree challenging...

[dreamer]

haha. it's good to have another person chime in to verify correctness...

[rmorelan]

Hmm... Was just thinking for question 4), I would make sure you don't take anything that's "close" to what you have taken before. If you can get the transfer credit, try for it. You don't want to run into the situation of a medical school saying, "hey you took this course before in your previous degree and you're taking something very similar in your new degree. we won't accept this entire year of work." That would be disheartening.

 

So, instead, just take an easy breezy course in it's place! Even better! In general, courses required for your degree are harder than your electives...

 

And, another thing, for Western you gotta make sure you take enough upper year courses in each year. That's 3.0/5.0 courses at the senior (as defined as 2000 level) or above.

 

That's a ton of rules, on top of finishing your new degree in exactly 2 years. But that's what makes the second degree challenging...

 

For western senior level it is 3rd year and higher that are senior level - or are you referring to the special year rules?

[dreamer]

Actually, for Western, senior level is considered 2000 level or above. It says that somewhere buried in that academic calendar, and I had my courses verified by the admissions office just to make sure. You can take 3/5 course at the 2000 level in each year ONLY for 2nd degree students...

 

Special year (victory lap) students have it even rougher. I'll quote the FAQ:

 

"A special year will only be considered if it contains five full or equivalent courses (30 credit hours) taken between September and April. First-year courses, repeat/antirequisite courses, and second-year courses that do not require a first-year prerequisite are not acceptable in the special year"

 

It doesn't say about level requirements here, but I'll assume you have to take mostly 3000 level courses or above.

[Lucky Luke]

Thank you for all the responses, they were very informative. The reason why I asked whether transfer credits are included in the GPA that OMSAS calculates is this:

 

Like I said, the new degree won't record the old grades, but OMSAS will. Trust me, it's a pain in the ass.

 

which I encountered in this thread:

 

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?p=493812&highlight=omsas+gpa#post493812

[dreamer]

Thank you for all the responses, they were very informative. The reason why I asked whether transfer credits are included in the GPA that OMSAS calculates is this:

 

 

 

which I encountered in this thread:

 

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?p=493812&highlight=omsas+gpa#post493812

 

Lol. I think he just meant that "you're not forgiven for the grades in the past". Which you're not for the cGPA schools. It won't be transferred to your new degree, but it will still be there and reduce your chances significantly for schools like U of T, Mac etc...

[nosuperman]

Actually, for Western, senior level is considered 2000 level or above. It says that somewhere buried in that academic calendar, and I had my courses verified by the admissions office just to make sure. You can take 3/5 course at the 2000 level in each year ONLY for 2nd degree students...

 

So its different rules for 1st and 2nd undergrad? Because for 1st undergrad senior level is definitely 3000+.

[rmorelan]

Actually, for Western, senior level is considered 2000 level or above. It says that somewhere buried in that academic calendar, and I had my courses verified by the admissions office just to make sure. You can take 3/5 course at the 2000 level in each year ONLY for 2nd degree students...

 

Special year (victory lap) students have it even rougher. I'll quote the FAQ:

 

"A special year will only be considered if it contains five full or equivalent courses (30 credit hours) taken between September and April. First-year courses, repeat/antirequisite courses, and second-year courses that do not require a first-year prerequisite are not acceptable in the special year"

 

It doesn't say about level requirements here, but I'll assume you have to take mostly 3000 level courses or above.

 

We are probably talking about the same things only slightly off you have to take 3.0 3rd or 4th year courses in years 3 or 4 or those years cannot be used. You of course also need at least 5.0 courses as well.

[dreamer]

So its different rules for 1st and 2nd undergrad? Because for 1st undergrad senior level is definitely 3000+.

 

Correct. They are different rules, if you read the FAQ carefully, the 2nd degree only stipulates senior-level courses. Those are 2000 level courses. For 1st undergrad, in third year and up, you have to take mostly (3/5) 3000 level courses, and in second year, 2000 level courses.

 

I spent weeks agonizing over this stuff, and tried to take more 3000 level courses just to cover my bases, but I was told that 3/5 2000 level courses was okay for SECOND DEGREE students.

[KEW]

Hey Dreamer,

I'm in 2nd degree and according to your information I don't meet the requirements as I took 2.5 first year courses. I guess it doesn't matter whether those first year courses are part of degree requirement or not?

[dreamer]

Hmm... It doesn't matter. I'm sorry to say, I really wish there was a disclaimer on your course selection website or something... But, don't panic! You might be able to get away with it, by overloading your next term with a 2000 level or above course. It all depends on how your course schedule is laid out.

[dreamer]

Ya. Just have a plan in mind, then perhaps email the admissions office to double check.

[rmorelan]

Correct. They are different rules, if you read the FAQ carefully, the 2nd degree only stipulates senior-level courses. Those are 2000 level courses. For 1st undergrad, in third year and up, you have to take mostly (3/5) 3000 level courses, and in second year, 2000 level courses.

 

I spent weeks agonizing over this stuff, and tried to take more 3000 level courses just to cover my bases, but I was told that 3/5 2000 level courses was okay for SECOND DEGREE students.

 

Ok, interesting! I will check on this tomorrow

 

I am just finishing up the construction of the new admissions website so am hoping things will be a bit clearer there once done. Ideally people won't have to spend as much time reading into things once we get everything fully updated and some of our new tech goes online as well.

[nosuperman]

Ok, interesting! I will check on this tomorrow

 

I am just finishing up the construction of the new admissions website so am hoping things will be a bit clearer there once done. Ideally people won't have to spend as much time reading into things once we get everything fully updated and some of our new tech goes online as well.

 

You sir, are such a baller.

[charlosee]

Correct. They are different rules, if you read the FAQ carefully, the 2nd degree only stipulates senior-level courses. Those are 2000 level courses. For 1st undergrad, in third year and up, you have to take mostly (3/5) 3000 level courses, and in second year, 2000 level courses.

 

I spent weeks agonizing over this stuff, and tried to take more 3000 level courses just to cover my bases, but I was told that 3/5 2000 level courses was okay for SECOND DEGREE students.

 

 

I am in the same agonizing situation.

This is my first year for a second degree and I was rewarded TOO MANY CREDITS that it put me into 4th year.

Right now I have too many 200 level courses because I still need them as pre-req's for upper year. Talked to the academic adviser about maybe refusing some of the transfer credits I have been rewarded just so I can get a 2nd year standing (and therefore making it okay for me to take all the 2nd year courses) but she said that's not possible. I guess no one ever actively wants to reject transfer credits.

 

Could you possibly link me to this rule that you read? I tried my own search but came up short.

 

And rmorelan, you really are a baller. Please update us with whatever you find out!

[dreamer]

Hey man. Don't stress about being granted transfer credits. I don't know why so many people do! But it is ADVANTAGEOUS to have those granted to you in a second degree. You don't usually have to worry about courses like stats, or some hardcore biochem, physics or calculus course you had to take. If you're a science student, even usually a humanities credit will bring down your average.

 

I think you're in a fine situation:

 

http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/education/admissions/medicine/documents/FAQs20100705.pdf

 

Go to section 20. Senior course is defined as (2000 - 4999) at Western. I couldn't find the specific definition, though I did recall seeing it at some point.

 

Here is an implicit definition: http://www.westerncalendar.uwo.ca/2010/pg81.html