Where do I fit in?

[Robin Hood]

Hey folks! Hope exams are going well.

 

I have the same old story, I ****ed around for a while in university (Concordia) because I had no idea what I wanted to do. Then some stuff happened in my family and I wanted to be a doctor, so for the last couple of years I've been trying to turn my life around.

 

I am by definition a weird-ass candidate (or an "i didn't know what i wanted to do" douchebag). My university life thus far has been like this:

 

-all GPAs are on 4.3-

1 Year in Physics: 2.9 GPA (Part time) (Work FT)

1 Year Mechanical Engineering: 3.0GPA (part time) (Work FT)

1 Year Mechanical Engineering: 4.13 GPA (started to get my shiz together)

Now I'm in exercise science and so far am rocking a 4.3.

 

My question is are they going to look at all my courses I've ever taken considering I never officially completed a bachelors before going into exercise science? Or is my only shot just to finish this degree and start up yet another one?

 

I know it seems kind of scummy asking this here when there are so many fantastic candidates on these boards that have known what they want to do since they started university, but I wanted to know if there was a chance for someone who had a change of heart.

 

Thanks for any help/criticism. Cheers!

 

If you're decided for medicine, go for it, if you still have doubts about your future career, paying visit to a school advisor may be a good help.

[future_doc]

now i don't have a clue?

 

Feeling guilty? I never said you don't have a clue, I just advised setto to ignore those who don't have a clue. But, if the shoes fits, then you can wear it.

 

I am confident setto will follow his own feelings that happen to mirror those of Robin Hood and I. We are all here to give constructive criticism and support.

 

PEACE.

[setto]

Well I wasn't trying to be a ****, but I just can't understand your "I'm putting in maximum effort yada yada" argument.

 

To me it makes no sense. I think its not too much of a stretch to say that a science like exercise science or nutrition is much less challenging than stuff like biochem/ physics/ immunology etc. (this may be a bit controversial - but lets face it kinesiology is just nowhere near the difficulty of biochem or other similar majors). Now, what you were saying is that it doesn't matter what the courses are because you are still putting in "max effort"... well thats where my head "assplodes". I'm pretty sure that easier courses would require less effort than harder courses - by definition.

 

Anyway, like I said before, don't really bank on McGill with those grades and whatever. They accept like 1 out 100 students...for OOP and competition for IP is still pretty fierce. It just seems that your "Oh I did mech. eng, then some exercise science, now wanna be doctor wheee" resume is not really gonna cut into the top 10% which is what you need at the very least.

 

"you're not a beautiful and unique snowflake"

 

Well I came here for criticism and got it, that's for sure. When I was in engineering I wanted to be a doctor btw. Then some stuff happened in engineering (course overlaps) and they were going to try and make me stay longer than necessary. Considering I had no desire to be an engineer I figured i'd move into one of the sciences that interested me and be able to grad and apply to medicine earlier. So despite my transcript looking flip floppy I do have a goal in mind.

 

I'm not banking on McGill. Although it's great to have high hopes, I'm not the kind of person to put all my eggs in one basket (especially if that basket isn't a sure thing).

 

Sadly I encounter many people like you whom feel the need/desire to discourage others. I don't see why, do you really think that one more person competing for a spot is going to sully your chances? Maybe you feel I'm undeserving but don't you feel like the adcom would filter the "undeserving" types out during interviews? I just think it's strange that you are taking it unto yourself to discourage me. Maybe you are right and I don't have a shot at McGill now, but maybe in the upcoming years? Trust me I want to be a physician. Maybe that wont be achieved via McGill but I'm positive it will happen some place.

 

Last thing i want to say is that there is ALWAYS a bigger fish. I have a friend who says he wants to be a doctor JUST so he can tell people he wants to be a doctor. I also have another friend who wants to be doc just because he recently found out that you can apply to med with any bachelors so she says "Meh, I'll give it a shot" yet I don't see them busting their ass in class or rushing to their various volunteer positions while trying to work so THEY can pay the bills. And believe it or not I bet there are candidates out there that would look down on even you !

 

I'm not saying the world is beautiful and everybody should help every body and if you sorta want to be a doc then you should be one. I'm somewhat realistic. But I am saying that I expected some help or criticism (of a constructive nature) with my OP.

 

Despite your elitist attitude I wish you luck in getting into med. You seem to have the work ethic, the competitiveness and the drive but it all comes down to the adcoms.

[setto]

If you're decided for medicine, go for it, if you still have doubts about your future career, paying visit to a school advisor may be a good help.

 

I've been to advisers, shadowed doctors, hung around hospitals and spoke to a few profs in med at McGill. I want it

[Robin Hood]

I've been to advisers, shadowed doctors, hung around hospitals and spoke to a few profs in med at McGill. I want it

 

I was in a similar situation, I changed my objective many times during the last few years. First I wanted to become a computer scientist, then politician, then computer scientist, then engineering, finally I discovered my passion to medicine.

[masaraksh]

I hate to impart such a negative attitude, but I am just writing based on my understanding of what the competition is like for OOP applicants like myself. There are lots of applicants and very few spots, so my point is that you must be a very strong candidate to have a shot at getting in. I think your "academic history" is not in that 95th percentile though. As for your job - you said you worked full time, that is different from many applicants. Where did you work? What did you do? What did you learn? Maybe that is something relevant to your application etc?

 

 

Second, as for whether you "actually have a passion" for medicine, have you volunteered at a hospital? Do you have a feeling of "everyday" work a doctor does? It would be helpful to know, you will see if you really want to do medical school? Thats true for any profession - maybe mech. eng. is boring and annoying when you're taking classes, but maybe you'd do an intership designing some kind of machinery/etc and really enjoy it. Its important to realize how different "classroom/lectures" are from the real job.

[future_doc]

Well I wasn't trying to be a ****, but I just can't understand your "I'm putting in maximum effort yada yada" argument.

 

To me it makes no sense. I think its not too much of a stretch to say that a science like exercise science ...... is much less challenging than stuff like biochem/ physics/ immunology etc. (this may be a bit controversial - but lets face it kinesiology is just nowhere near the difficulty of biochem or other similar majors). Now, what you were saying is that it doesn't matter what the courses are because you are still putting in "max effort"... well thats where my head "assplodes". I'm pretty sure that easier courses would require less effort than harder courses - by definition.

 

Have some respect man. Not only are you so harsh - unnecessarily so - you are wrong! You assume, falsely so, that exercise science is easier than whatever you consider "harder courses" by which you mean biochem/physics/immunology. You are an elist without humility.

 

Let's explore it. In exercise science one studies, amongst others, biomedical ethics; emergency care; human anatomy: musculo-skeletal human anatomy (the musculosketal system and accompanying circulatory and neurological systems; human anatomy II: systemic anatomy with major focus being the anatomy of the central circulatory and central respiratory systems, and it also addresses the anatomy of the brain and spinal column as well as the integumentary, digestive, and urogenital systems; human physiology I: the neurological, bio-energetic and endocrine systems; neuro control of human movement; biomechanics of human movement; human physiology II: the cardiovascular and respiratory systems; physiology of exercise with special emphasis on examinig the functional capacity of the cardiovascular, rrespiratory, neuromuscular and endocrine systems to acute exercise; pathophysiology in clinical exercise: reviews pathophysiology, medical intervention techniques, and medication profiles of the most common neuromuscular and orthopeadic diseases and disabilities; clinical exercise physiology internship I: participate in physicial activity programming offered to special populations, e.g., working with chronic elderly patients with neuro and motor dsyfunctions stemming from strokes, Parkinsons, MS, etc., under supervision, with goal to giving them greater mobility; pathophysiology in clinical exercise II: review pathophysiology, medical ingtervention techniques, and medication profiles of many common diseases and disabilities such as diabetese, heart attack victims and the obese, helping them develop a preventative exercise regime to prolong their lives and promote healthy living, etc.

 

There are numerous other courses. I would hardly characterize any of the above as "easy" or equivalent to basket weaving in science. On the contrary, these courses are very demanding and probably more demanding than those courses you characterize as "hard".

 

Moreover, these courses and interships give vital knowledge, techniques and skills required of physicians. Those who obtain straight As in this program of study go into medicine and are sought after!

 

So, please some respect to the OP. You indicate in a post that he is out-of-province, is he? The devil is always in the details.

 

His experience in engineering can be useful in the understanding of bioengineering and bio-medicine.

 

We each come to the table with different skills, knowledge, backgrounds and we take different paths to the same goal. The O.P. has the potential of being an excellent candidate and it is so really unnecessary to try to knock him off his feet. Why try to ridicule him with your comment, your "Oh I did mech. eng, then some exercise science, now wanna be doctor wheee". What does that say ab out you? What will that accomplish?

 

I wish you well in your application(s) and hope all goes well.

[setto]

I hate to impart such a negative attitude, but I am just writing based on my understanding of what the competition is like for OOP applicants like myself. There are lots of applicants and very few spots, so my point is that you must be a very strong candidate to have a shot at getting in. I think your "academic history" is not in that 95th percentile though. As for your job - you said you worked full time, that is different from many applicants. Where did you work? What did you do? What did you learn? Maybe that is something relevant to your application etc?

 

 

Second, as for whether you "actually have a passion" for medicine, have you volunteered at a hospital? Do you have a feeling of "everyday" work a doctor does? It would be helpful to know, you will see if you really want to do medical school? Thats true for any profession - maybe mech. eng. is boring and annoying when you're taking classes, but maybe you'd do an intership designing some kind of machinery/etc and really enjoy it. Its important to realize how different "classroom/lectures" are from the real job.

 

I'm in Province However that wasn't really relative to my initial question. I work as a calibrator for ISO certification for manufacturing companies. No it doesn't have anything to do with med, but it pays the bills. I volunteer (however not as much as I'd like to) in the field. And I'm not really sure about the point you are trying to make with the "classroom/lectures" bit. If you are trying to say that med on paper is very different from med in real life then YES i totally agree! I've done my research. I wouldn't invest time and effort into something if I didn't know what I was getting into.

 

Finally, yes I agree that I'm not in the 95th percentile, but I'm trying to inch my way up there. I'm still in the mindset that somebody who screwed up still has a chance.

 

At least your last post was a bit more constructive. Thanks Masaraksh.

[future_doc]

masaraksh, the devil is in the details.

 

You made a false assumption that exercise science is easy for an aspiring med student. And the research required or a first rate paper is considerable. Frankly, it provides better preparation for medicine, in terms of course of study and the work ethic required to be a consistent A student, than any other program I can think of.

 

And you made another false assumption. setto is IP, he never said or implied that he was OOP, you simply read into his post something that was not there.

 

I am sure that you are a top candidate for McGill. At the MMI, you don't want to make any false assumptions at any of the Stations, so this exchange has been a good exercise for all.

[masaraksh]

masaraksh, the devil is in the details.

 

You made a false assumption that exercise science is easy for an aspiring med student. And the research required or a first rate paper is considerable. Frankly, it provides better preparation for medicine, in terms of course of study and the work ethic required to be a consistent A student, than any other program I can think of.

 

And you made another false assumption. setto is IP, he never said or implied that he was OOP, you simply read into his post something that was not there.

 

I am sure that you are a top candidate for McGill. At the MMI, you don't want to make any false assumptions at any of the Stations, so this exchange has been a good exercise for all.

 

I guess I have to admit defeat... I mean, I haven't actually taken any courses at exercise science so I am probably biased. Just basing my view of what I hear from classmates and "general feel".

 

Oh and as for the IP and OOP....

 

"They say that assumption is the mother of all ****ups"

 

[setto]

I guess I have to admit defeat... I mean, I haven't actually taken any courses at exercise science so I am probably biased. Just basing my view of what I hear from classmates and "general feel".

 

Oh and as for the IP and OOP....

 

"They say that assumption is the mother of all ****ups"

 

 

I'll admit that one big issue with exercise science is they do not let anybody from out of the program take ANY of the courses required for the degrees. The only courses they can get are the introductory level courses that require no sciences that we don't even need to take because they are just so "common sense". These courses are easy A's and give the program somewhat of a bad reputation. But it wouldn't really be fair to judge a math degree based on introductory math courses you took in highschool.

 

...probably an exaggerated example

[future_doc]

I guess I have to admit defeat... I mean, I haven't actually taken any courses at exercise science so I am probably biased. Just basing my view of what I hear from classmates and "general feel".

 

Oh and as for the IP and OOP....

 

"They say that assumption is the mother of all ****ups"

 

 

Second hand so-called information based upon impressions without research or direct knowledge is unreliable. Everybody feels their route is best. I did considerable research prior to selecting exercise science asnd aftrer considering all science options and after considering McGill. I spoke directly to students in med who followed this route and questioned them thoroughly.

 

In exercise science, other than ECs and volunteering (which became my social life), I had no social life, I was always studying, doing assignments and had to work incredibly hard throughout undergrad.

 

I accept youur admission of defeat not as defeat, rather as a sign of humility (required by physicians ) and as a person who will listen to and evaluate the evidence and reassess his conclusion based upon new facts presented, i.e., developing an open mind (also rrequired by physiicians.)

 

We are all winners here and I expect us all to be colleagues soon enough.

 

Cheers!

[masaraksh]

Second hand so-called information based upon impressions without research or direct knowledge is unreliable. Everybody feels their route is best. I did considerable research prior to selecting exercise science asnd aftrer considering all science options and after considering McGill. I spoke directly to students in med who followed this route and questioned them thoroughly.

 

In exercise science, other than ECs and volunteering (which became my social life), I had no social life, I was always studying, doing assignments and had to work incredibly hard throughout undergrad.

 

I accept youur admission of defeat not as defeat, rather as a sign of humility (required by physicians ) and as a person who will listen to and evaluate the evidence and reassess his conclusion based upon new facts presented, i.e., developing an open mind (also rrequired by physiicians.)

 

We are all winners here and I expect us all to be colleagues soon enough.

 

Cheers!

 

To add to my previous post though, I would def prefer my oncologist or endocrinologist have a degree in biochem/physio/molec. bio. than exercise science... and maybe rather my orthopedic surgeon have a degree in that.

 

Anyway, I will admit that I was talking about exercise science and other programs without actually knowing what they are about. Although, its hard not to believe the pretty common chatter among all science students that biochem harder than physio which is harder than kinesiology etc...

[future_doc]

And to add to mine, it is true that one can coast thru this program and not fail whereas one cannot do that in biochem or molec. bio. and expect to pass. However, the coasters are coasters taking up space and helping to pay the profs' salaries; they certainly are not med school material.

 

Those aiming for med work their @$$e$ off continuously and work harder than any biochem honours student to achieve their consistent As. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, the A students walk into medicine and taking the clinical specialization, not only do they reinforce forever the theoretical knowledge learned, they gain great communication skills with the patients, which can only be beneficial for the MMI and for medicine.

 

The common chatter is from the uninformed, sort of like the unsubstantiated gossip to destroy a coeds reputation based upon the ripple effect of one student's lies b/c he could not get to first base with someone who rejected him cold.

 

This entire discussion has been poositive, good natured and enjoyable.

[Maxime]

To add to my previous post though, I would def prefer my oncologist or endocrinologist have a degree in biochem/physio/molec. bio. than exercise science

 

You think that you'd be a better oncologist or endocrinologist by having done undergrad in biochem? Physio? Instead of sports medicine? Do you really think that you'll learn the important stuff in undergrad that your intensive 5 year medical residency won't teach you? That you'll be the expert, much better than other specialists, who spend their entire lives studying one field, and reading all the papers that come out pertaining to that field, because of your 3 years in biochem undergrad?

 

I did biochem, and I tell you that it has been pretty much useless except during my first session. Med school will teach you what you need to know. Doing undergrad in one field compared to another has absolutely no influence on how good of a specialist you'll be later on.

[masaraksh]

You think that you'd be a better oncologist or endocrinologist by having done undergrad in biochem? Physio? Instead of sports medicine? Do you sincerely think that you'll learn important stuff in undergrad that your intensive 5 year medical residency won't teach you? That you'll be the expert, much better than other specialists, who spend their entire lives studying one field, and reading all the papers that come out pertaining to that field, because of your 3 years in biochem undergrad?

 

I did biochem, and I tell you that it has been pretty much useless except during my first session. Med school will teach you what you need to know. Doing undergrad in one field compared to another has absolutely no influence on how good of a specialist you'll be later on.

 

Thats why I said "prefer", although don't think that I didn't consider your argument before you made your post.

[masaraksh]

But your preference is illogical and has no basis on how well a doctor can do his/her job.

 

Ok, I guess if I were like a master endocrinologist and was picking students to teach (lol) then all grades, ECs, etc being equal I would probably go with the bioc/physio/chem majors over kinesiology/economics/art history majors.

 

does this even make sense? maybe I should go back to studying for finals.

[future_doc]

Time to study for finals.

 

Lots of wisdom.

[deeman101]

OP, make an appointment with Michel Dansereau (mcgill med adcoms big cheese) and ask him to tell you straight up what you need to get an interview based on what you have now. Assuming he feels you can handle it, he will tell you exactly what you need to do. My guess is you're gonna need a really good mcat. As an IP you probably don't have the worst odds possible, based on what I've seen in my class.

 

@masaraksh: Hopefully you don't get as frustrated with people in person as on this board. McGill's MMI can make even the calmest person loose his cool. It's pretty rough.

 

 

EDIT: WTF does undergrad have to do with how good you are as a doctor?? It doesn't matter if you can name the exact sequence of enzymes, cofactors, and intermediates needed in a path way. Your patient won't understand it (or care) and its not gonna help you diagnose/treat any better. Any doc can tell you intelligence > keener.

[setto]

OP, make an appointment with Michel Dansereau (mcgill med adcoms big cheese) and ask him to tell you straight up what you need to get an interview based on what you have now. Assuming he feels you can handle it, he will tell you exactly what you need to do. My guess is you're gonna need a really good mcat. As an IP you probably don't have the worst odds possible, based on what I've seen in my class.

 

@masaraksh: Hopefully you don't get as frustrated with people in person as on this board. McGill's MMI can make even the calmest person loose his cool. It's pretty rough.

 

 

EDIT: WTF does undergrad have to do with how good you are as a doctor?? It doesn't matter if you can name the exact sequence of enzymes, cofactors, and intermediates needed in a path way. Your patient won't understand it (or care) and its not gonna help you diagnose/treat any better. Any doc can tell you intelligence > keener.

 

Thanks a lot