Blue Sky Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hello everyone, I am already going to be in debt after finishing undergrad. I don't want to ask money from my parents because I know they cannot afford it. Obviously during medical school I do not have time for a job. Is there a way to get money and pay it off later? How much debt is going to be as an average, and how long do you need to pay it off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenarbitor Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hello everyone,I am already going to be in debt after finishing undergrad. I don't want to ask money from my parents because I know they cannot afford it. Obviously during medical school I do not have time for a job. Is there a way to get money and pay it off later? How much debt is going to be as an average, and how long do you need to pay it off? You get get student LOC from banks and government loan. Most of the MD graduate with a decent sized debt, but it doesn't take long for them to pay it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hello everyone,I am already going to be in debt after finishing undergrad. I don't want to ask money from my parents because I know they cannot afford it. Obviously during medical school I do not have time for a job. Is there a way to get money and pay it off later? How much debt is going to be as an average, and how long do you need to pay it off? I know debt is a major concern of people but really that part of things just works itself out in almost all cases to the point where I know of only one case where it didn't and that was because of pure stupidity (you do not use your LOC to buy a 80,000 dollar car, you just don't) You can instantly get enough of a loan, and with many provincial loan plans you get rather massive grants etc. yeah the numbers are huge but the end income is even more so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 I know debt is a major concern of people but really that part of things just works itself out in almost all cases to the point where I know of only one case where it didn't and that was because of pure stupidity (you do not use your LOC to buy a 80,000 dollar car, you just don't) You can instantly get enough of a loan, and with many provincial loan plans you get rather massive grants etc. yeah the numbers are huge but the end income is even more so According to scotia bank, it takes on average 7 years into practice to pay off your loans. The average cost of medical school varies depending on location but according to western it costs about 37000 per year on average (not including the expense during the summers), for a total of about 160,000 including interest after 4 years and a bit of a buffer. On full OSAP in Ontario you will get about 28,000 in grants, and it is possible to earn easily enough money to live on in the summers. Some people do have help from their parents etc, and some people earn money during school. Of course you can structure things to minimize costs - i am a bit frugal and between grants, jobs, and osap grants I think will owe 40,000 after two years of education - and that is without any outside help or prior assets. So it is definitely possible to minimize things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrition major Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 If you are going to a Canadian medical school any bank will lend you money because you will have great prospects for employment when you graduate. You should try to live cheaply. Make bag lunches, share a house with other quiet students, walk and ride your bicycle, cook at home. If you are going to an overseas medical school it is a good idea to work and save money first so that you don't need to borrow the full $100,000 to $250,000 that you would need for the tuition and other expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 If you get an acceptance from a Canadian med school, $$$ is no longer a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iicii Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 UT said that average student there had $85000 in debt when graduating. Hello everyone,I am already going to be in debt after finishing undergrad. I don't want to ask money from my parents because I know they cannot afford it. Obviously during medical school I do not have time for a job. Is there a way to get money and pay it off later? How much debt is going to be as an average, and how long do you need to pay it off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 I think the great thing about Canadian medical schools is that once you are accepted, there is almost no way for you to not to be able to afford you medical education. Every school has financial advisers that will help you try find ways to pay for tuition and living costs etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 I think the great thing about Canadian medical schools is that once you are accepted, there is almost no way for you to not to be able to afford you medical education. Every school has financial advisers that will help you try find ways to pay for tuition and living costs etc. Yeah I agree! One of the big things that bugs me though is that people don't actually know that. The average income of the parents of people in Canadian medical schools rose dramatically once deregulation of tuition occurred and the only major thing that seems to have happened is that specific people just got scared away by the huge costs involved. The average income used to be about 140,000 and now it is well over 200,000 in the span of a relatively few years (that is a big, big change in terms of the types of jobs people must be holding). The end result is a huge bias toward who is going to medical school and, perhaps more interesting in the long run, what the patient population this group of medical students will ultimately serve. The more wealthy parents will be clustered geographically in various parts of the county and potentially this may skew the end location most of their children will want to return to. Might have interesting effects on the distribution of doctors through out the country among other things - speciality choice, and advocacy may also be affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantaloons Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 One of the big things that bugs me though is that people don't actually know that. The average income of the parents of people in Canadian medical schools rose dramatically once deregulation of tuition and the only thing that seems to have happened is that people just got scared away by the huge costs involved. The average income used to be about 140,000 and now it is well over 200,000 in the span of a relatively few years. The end result is a huge bias toward who is going to medical school and, perhaps more interesting in the long run, what the patient population this group of medical students will ultimately serve. The more wealthy parents will be clustered geographically in various parts of the county and potentially this may skew the end location most of their children will want to return to. Might have interesting effects on the distribution of doctors through out the country among other things. This is very interesting, rmorelan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer08 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 If you get an acceptance from a Canadian med school, $$$ is no longer a problem. exactly, first get accepted and then worry about the tuition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaha Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hey guys i'd like to know something. 1. Do medical students get any student loan at all from federal/provincial government like undergrads? 2. If we fund our study via banks, do they charge interest while we are a full time medical student (and if not do interests accrue during summer when we're out of school)? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hey guys i'd like to know something. 1. Do medical students get any student loan at all from federal/provincial government like undergrads? 2. If we fund our study via banks, do they charge interest while we are a full time medical student (and if not do interests accrue during summer when we're out of school)? Thanks! 1) yes, medical school is simple another undergraduate degree. Anything that you would qualify for as an undergraduate student is still open. In ontario that includes osap for instance. It can be a bit trickier if you move provinces to go to school but again that is the same as if you moved for any other degree. 2) yes bank loans are simply standard loans and not protected by the usual government student interest forgiveness programs etc. The interest rate is prime though and currently the payments are historically extremely low. You accrue interest during school, during the breaks and continuously until the loans are paid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 What is this $200 000? The average income of parents? That's crazy...That's like WAY ABOVE the highest income bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 What is this $200 000? The average income of parents? That's crazy...That's like WAY ABOVE the highest income bracket. That was the average reported income of parents reported to us by the admins here at Western at a recent event from compiled survey data. The CMA and OMA track this information. I am quite sure some very high income people drag it up quite a bit but what is important is a consistent progressive increase over time. They were convinced that outliers were not the reason for the increase. Here some other interesting quotes reported in the CMAJ: "Evidence is mounting that today’s medical students increasingly hail from the highest income-earning families in Canada," the paper states. "Parallel to this, little progress has been made in attracting applicants from First Nations, Inuit, and Métis communities and rural areas." I believe you can read that report at http://www.afmc.ca/fmec/pdf/collective_vision.pdf "For example, the widely held belief that children of doctors are over-represented among medical students is truer today than 35 years ago: 15.6% of today’s medical students have a physician parent, as compared with 11.8% in 1965/66." so roughly one in six med students have at least one parent who is a doctor For some reason I don't understand people from a rural area are also reported to turn down a med school acceptance twice as much those from an urban area. I find that confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaha Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Thank you rmorelan as always for your prompt and satisfactory reply What is this $200 000? The average income of parents? That's crazy...That's like WAY ABOVE the highest income bracket. That is pretty crazy... no way my parents ever make that kinda money lol. That's why i'm gonna need lots of financial help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiomegaly Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I find it surprising that there are more people in medical school with parent doctors than before. My parent was allowed to talk about his physician family members during his interview to med school - a lot of it was reputation. (He's a great doctor and worked his bum off, was dirt poor at the time, don't judge). But when I went through my MMIs everything was standardized and I didn't dare say a word about having a physician parent. One of our career counsellors said it takes the average graduate 1-2 years to pay off their debt once they are staff - so maybe 7 years includes residency? Some provinces hold your interest during residency as well as during your 4 years. I think tuition in Canada is definitely affordable once you factor in help from government student loans and lines of credit. Be frugal, have a roommate, don't buy a car for the first 2 years, etc. Yes you will have some debt when you are done but you're in a profession that will allow you to pay it off easily. The only scary part is that most people want to get married and start a family when they graduate, sitting with their large debt loads and less than minimum wage salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I find it surprising that there are more people in medical school with parent doctors than before. My parent was allowed to talk about his physician family members during his interview to med school - a lot of it was reputation. (He's a great doctor and worked his bum off, was dirt poor at the time, don't judge). But when I went through my MMIs everything was standardized and I didn't dare say a word about having a physician parent. One of our career counsellors said it takes the average graduate 1-2 years to pay off their debt once they are staff - so maybe 7 years includes residency? Some provinces hold your interest during residency as well as during your 4 years. The rise in income issue (at least as far as people where hypothesizing) is something that takes place way before the interview - their point I believe was that people don't even attempt to go into medicine because they see the kind of huge expense up front. I mean if you think about it most people prior to bumping into a forum like this don't know you can get 200,000 dollars in a bank loan - I didn't Plus we don't exactly advertise how much doctors really make - I still run into many, many premeds that don't have a good idea - heck med students often don't. By the time you figure that out that you can afford it you might be too far along doing something else. oh the bank loan won't be frozen during residency but yeah some government loans can be frozen and that is awesome There are some restrictions associated with it though in a few places ie where your practice is set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking1 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Short version: Walk into bank. Tell them you got into medical school. Loan plz. /thread P.S. This assumes, of course, that you don't have a terrible, awful bank record or that you're a criminal, or something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdDave Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Jesus freaking Christ cry me a river. Try going to a US school some time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavrik13 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Having been recently accepted to Dal, I was pretty worried about the price of tuition. However, I also looked into US and Carribean schools, and feel fortunate that I only have to pay ~$15,000 a year. In the states, you could easily be looking at $40,000 a year (and some schools are around $55,000 a year!!!). I'm not so worried any more, but it will be weird living off of a LoC for me (as I would imagine the majority of other med students live off of). With respect to the average income of parents accepted to medical school... $200,000 seems possible, depending on how the numbers are crunched - do the numbers also include divorced parent couples? Both my parents have remaried, and if you took all of their incomes into account in this sort of survey, that could be a reason the apparent average income of medical students has increased over the past few decades (consequence of the increasing % of divorces in our generation). I am surprised that more rural individuals turn down medical school offers than urban individuals - I didn't know anyone turned down a med school offer (unless they were going to another med/dental/other professional school). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman101 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Can someone confirm that we don't accrue interest on OSAP loans until AFTER residency? Since we need to still pay tuition fees in residency. I called in to OSAP's head office (my main contact since I'm outside ON) and asked them about residency and I was told without hesitation that residents are still "eligible" for osap. Doubt that means we get money, but at least having interest free OSAP debt will save many thousands in interest payments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Can someone confirm that we don't accrue interest on OSAP loans until AFTER residency? Since we need to still pay tuition fees in residency. I called in to OSAP's head office (my main contact since I'm outside ON) and asked them about residency and I was told without hesitation that residents are still "eligible" for osap. Doubt that means we get money, but at least having interest free OSAP debt will save many thousands in interest payments! Are you referring to this? http://fc.pairo.org/~pairobulletin/003958EA-000F4737.0/Launch%20QA%20final%20Nov1.pdf what tuition fees are you taking about about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Perhaps the annual registration fee to PGME? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman101 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Umm, I didn't know about that loan relief program rmorelan. Thanks! I thought residents paid tuition fees. At least McGill ones do: http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/fees/grad/gradmed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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