Second undergrad degree admission requirement

[erica2030]

Hi everyone! I just joined this forum recently. My apology if my question was already asked before.

Currently I am doing BHSc at UofT Scarborough with double major in biology and psychology. I still have one more year to graduate. My cGPA is extremely low around 2.0 which is mainly cause of my lack of focus and effort in my student life over the years. Medical school was my goal when I started university but during the crazy phase of my personal life I guess I lost that goal. Now I just realise I don't really have a shot with this gpa anywhere. My 4 years have been a waste and I feel very frustrated. I am thinking of having a second degree in another university, not just for med school admission but actually to be eligible to use that degree for a career I would want to go for. But then again I am wondering with my low cgpa if its possible to get into any university for a 2nd degree as I saw some universities are asking for minimum 75% avg for admission. sigh! I was hoping to start fresh in another university with a new degree.

Any opinion, advice will be very helpful. I have found people in this forum are very informative and helpful. My school's career/academic counselor didn't seem interested in the idea of a second degree and one advisor told me to keep taking courses to improve my cgpa. It will be really helpul if you have anything to add. Thanks.

[greenplack]

hey erica2030, I'm new myself and find this place re-assuring to say the least . I understand you're feeling rather frustrated but there's no need to. I believe joining this forum was the correct first step, as there are many individuals on here who are more than willing to help. If you take a look at one of the stickies in this forum, someone was kind enough to post the requirements each school requests when applying with a second degree:D

[simpy]

Hi Erica,

 

It is possible to get into medical school from your position. I finished 4 years with a cGPA of 2.1 and after finishing a second degree have interviews.

 

To help if your plan is to do a second degree, consider taking a 5th year. You say you have one year left - don't take all of the courses you need to graduate, stay one credit back or something. Then if you do really well this year and next, you'll be in a position to write to schools and at least point to the upward trend as a reason they should accept you.

 

To be honest though, you might consider taking some time off. If you're not in a place right now to excel, don't try until you're in that place. The problem is that every year you get a low GPA is kind of a double whammy - not only does it waste a year, but for something like medical school you will have to make it up later. So it's like wasting two years in one.

 

I sure as hell wish I had not come back after my first year of undergrad (my subsequent 3 years had a cGPA of 1.6 which gives me no chance whatsoever at schools such as U of Alberta, McMaster, U of T...). If my cGPA consisted of my first year marks plus my marks since returning to school I'd have had several more interviews this cycle.

[Gavanshir]

Hey Simply, thanks for posting. Do you mind sharing your 2nd degree stats? MCAT/GPA?

[simpy]

Hey Simply, thanks for posting. Do you mind sharing your 2nd degree stats? MCAT/GPA?

 

GPA is 3.85 after 2 years of my second degree, this year is shaping up to be somewhere in the 3.9's. MCAT is 12/12/S/11. I also have fairly good ECs / reference letters.

[Gavanshir]

That's awesome, good luck!

[thehumanmacbook]

Also consider going to another university or do it through distance education. There are some universities where the competition may not be as stiff as U of T's if GPA is going to be a problem...

 

Keep in mind that some schools, like Mac, looks at your cumulative GPA from your first degree. But they have CASPer anyway so one can be able to compensate.

[kylamonkey]

Hey Erica2030-

 

This is going to be a long road- please don't expect that you can get interviews after only 2 more years, OK?

 

1. Simpy's advice was great- be in the best place you cn possibly be before starting another degree.

 

2. I wouldn't necessarily "waste" another year doing courses to raise your GPA. The effect will be minimal.

3. Go to a different school to do your next degree, and try not to bring any marks with you- i.e. no transfer credits, if that makes sense. I am not sure if this is the case with everyone, or wih every situation, but it is the case with mine (mine is quite complex).

4. Be as "traditional" as possible. Take 5 courses per term, do it with the right progression (100-level in 1st yr, 200 in 2nd yr, etc.). This will help you fulfill med school requirements, especiall if that school changes its rules. I am trying to follow my own advice in this case.

5. Don't be ashamed or too proud to take easy fun "bird" courses to boost your marks interspersed with your more challenging courses. Space your courses as well as you can, and do it smart.

6. Choose a second degree very carefully. Take a suite of courses you can excel in. You are going to have to get the grades for at least 2-3 yrs, and they have to be in the A-A+ range. What do you like to do? What are you interested in?

 

To gain admission to a new program you're going to have to prove yourself. I think that the best course of action MAY be (and this will not be right for all circumstances) to do your first yr of your new degree at a community college. Ensure that the courses you take are appliciable to your new program at your intended school. The only drawback may be that I don't think OMSAS counts courses from colleges, but I could be wrong.

 

Also, is it possible for you to move? Maybe a change of place/pace might be a very good thing. Ontario is the worst province to have residency in. Ask me more about residencies if you're interested in this.

[MarathonRunner]

To gain admission to a new program you're going to have to prove yourself. I think that the best course of action MAY be (and this will not be right for all circumstances) to do your first yr of your new degree at a community college. Ensure that the courses you take are appliciable to your new program at your intended school. The only drawback may be that I don't think OMSAS counts courses from colleges, but I could be wrong.

 

I would only do that (take courses at a community college) if the community college offers a definite "feeder" program into a university course.

 

For instance, I know that Guelph has an equine science degree - you do two years at college, then two years at Guelph. There are also plenty of nursing programs that do two years at college then two at university, so you come out of it with a nursing degree. Other colleges and universities have similar kinds of programs.

 

Otherwise, I'd be worried that the college courses would not count at all and would be "wasted."

[Hopefloats]

Hi guys,

 

I have read a lot in this section and thank you for posting so many wonderful tips.

I just graduated from McGill with a 3.46 GPA...It is really not a competitive GPA for medical school. Do you guys think I should do a second degree? or should I focus on improving other things like MCAT, reference letter etc.

 

Thanks so much =)

[Gavanshir]

Hey Hopefloats, welcome to the board.

 

What was your degree in?

Did you have a particularly hard time with science classes or non-science ones?

Have you taken the MCAT yet?

Did you have a full course load throughout your undergrad?

 

Hi guys,

 

I have read a lot in this section and thank you for posting so many wonderful tips.

I just graduated from McGill with a 3.46 GPA...It is really not a competitive GPA for medical school. Do you guys think I should do a second degree? or should I focus on improving other things like MCAT, reference letter etc.

 

Thanks so much =)

[thehumanmacbook]

Hi guys,

 

I have read a lot in this section and thank you for posting so many wonderful tips.

I just graduated from McGill with a 3.46 GPA...It is really not a competitive GPA for medical school. Do you guys think I should do a second degree? or should I focus on improving other things like MCAT, reference letter etc.

 

Thanks so much =)

 

It depends where you want to apply...from the top of my head (I don't have any IP pre-req stats on me right now) I think it's a bit low...

[simpy]

Hi guys,

 

I have read a lot in this section and thank you for posting so many wonderful tips.

I just graduated from McGill with a 3.46 GPA...It is really not a competitive GPA for medical school. Do you guys think I should do a second degree? or should I focus on improving other things like MCAT, reference letter etc.

 

Thanks so much =)

 

Hopefloats, I think before you consider doing a second degree you should really assess if medicine is what you truly want to do. Your GPA is pretty good - but to have a reasonable chance of getting into many medical schools you will need to do at least another two or three years.

 

How has your GPA trended? Was it very low for a year or two then did it rebound? Or have you always been around 3.46?

 

Getting into medical school is difficult enough, and with your GPA now you may be at a further disadvantage. So: how badly do you want it?

[Hopefloats]

Hey Hopefloats, welcome to the board.

 

What was your degree in?

Did you have a particularly hard time with science classes or non-science ones?

Have you taken the MCAT yet?

Did you have a full course load throughout your undergrad?

 

Thanks for your reply. I guess a bit more about my GPA...=)

My degree is in Physics.

I took mostly sciences classes during undergrad. My lower grades were mainly during second year when I didn't really know what i am doing. What is really troublesome is that I actually took many biology classes in second year and did poorly on them...

I am planning to write the MCAT this summer

I had full course load every term.

[Hopefloats]

Hopefloats, I think before you consider doing a second degree you should really assess if medicine is what you truly want to do. Your GPA is pretty good - but to have a reasonable chance of getting into many medical schools you will need to do at least another two or three years.

 

How has your GPA trended? Was it very low for a year or two then did it rebound? Or have you always been around 3.46?

 

Getting into medical school is difficult enough, and with your GPA now you may be at a further disadvantage. So: how badly do you want it?

 

Hi Simpy,

 

Thanks for your reply.

My GPA is around 3.6-3.7 for pretty much every team except 1 term in second year and another one in fourth year(every low GPA for those 2 terms).... Is this bad?

 

Thanks a lot

[Hopefloats]

It depends where you want to apply...from the top of my head (I don't have any IP pre-req stats on me right now) I think it's a bit low...

 

Hi thehumanmacbook,

 

I like your username.lol. Yeah... I think it is a bit low. Most people would probably have 3.7+. DO you think other factors will make up for my low GPA?...

 

Thanks a lot

[simpy]

Hi Simpy,

 

Thanks for your reply.

My GPA is around 3.6-3.7 for pretty much every team except 1 term in second year and another one in fourth year(every low GPA for those 2 terms).... Is this bad?

 

Thanks a lot

 

Hi Hopefloats,

 

One question I would ask yourself before pursuing your second degree is what has changed? Have you become more motivated for medicine recently, or have you always wanted to do meds?

 

The issue I am seeing is motivation. For a second degree to work out, you need to do exceptionally well (3.8+) in all years; you really can't afford to have a bad term. You also have to make yourself exceptional in your extracurricular activities, and your chances will be greatly improved by doing well on the MCAT.

 

What will change between your first degree and your second to ensure that this happens? For me, I had no direction in my first degree. I found that direction and returned to school motivated to succeed. This is why I had a 2.1 GPA in my first degree and a 3.85 in my second. I am succeeding now academically because I am highly motivated to.

 

I might suggest taking some time off before entering a second degree to find that motivation. Travel, work, volunteer - take time off of school and make sure that you are ready to bring everything to the next level. Don't just enter a second degree because you feel it is the best way to continue doing the same thing you have been doing.

 

I would also suggest the US or overseas if you are interested in medicine. You are competitive overseas, and with a good MCAT you may be fairly competitive there too. Getting into meds in Canada from the second degree route is highly difficult.

 

I'm not trying to discourage you - getting into a Canadian school is very possible, and if you did very well in a second degree (while balancing good ECs and a good MCAT score) you would stand a great chance of getting in. Just do everything in your power to make sure you are ready to push yourself hard for the next 2-3 years.

[md16]

Hey guys, I just had a question about doing a second degree. I have a horrible first degree cgpa ~2.4. If I do a second degree and make all the MCAT and gpa cut offs for certain schools, will they still look at me unfavourably due to my first degree? I am talking about schools that use last 2 years..queens, sask, western, dalhousie (I know I dont have a shot at schools that look at cGPA). Or will they just look at the 2 years of my second degree and see that Ive made the cutoffs and leave it at that? TIA for your help!!

[thehumanmacbook]

Hi thehumanmacbook,

 

I like your username.lol. Yeah... I think it is a bit low. Most people would probably have 3.7+. DO you think other factors will make up for my low GPA?...

 

Thanks a lot

 

Like simpy has said, there are other factors but I think in your case you really need the new degree/marks. Other factors in question include

 

1) Aboriginal status

2) Francophone status

3) IP status (where you're still a bit low, unfortunately)

4) Large extenuating circumstances (for instance, you're an olympian and spent most of your time training, etc). Even this one I would be skeptical of...a high GPA is what matters.

 

If you don't have #1,2,4 then you should really start over.

 

Thanks for the compliment for my name. I am but a humble macbook...

[thehumanmacbook]

Hey guys, I just had a question about doing a second degree. I have a horrible first degree cgpa ~2.4. If I do a second degree and make all the MCAT and gpa cut offs for certain schools, will they still look at me unfavourably due to my first degree? I am talking about schools that use last 2 years..queens, sask, western, dalhousie (I know I dont have a shot at schools that look at cGPA). Or will they just look at the 2 years of my second degree and see that Ive made the cutoffs and leave it at that? TIA for your help!!

 

It depends on the school in question. For instance, Mac will look at your cGPA of the two degrees combined, but they rely more heavily on CASPer anyway and VR. I think Queens and western look at your latest degree...though if I were you I would check each school individually and make notes of the requirements.

 

Also, you can search other posts using the search function above for more information.

[simpy]

Hey guys, I just had a question about doing a second degree. I have a horrible first degree cgpa ~2.4. If I do a second degree and make all the MCAT and gpa cut offs for certain schools, will they still look at me unfavourably due to my first degree? I am talking about schools that use last 2 years..queens, sask, western, dalhousie (I know I dont have a shot at schools that look at cGPA). Or will they just look at the 2 years of my second degree and see that Ive made the cutoffs and leave it at that? TIA for your help!!

 

Hi md16,

 

To answer your question: yes, it is possible to get interviews at schools and presumably get past the interview stage even with such a low GPA in your first degree. I just had an interview at Queen's with a 2.1 GPA in my first four year degree.

 

But you should not be considering a second degree unless things have changed considerably from your first degree. I took several years off, and lots of things changed in my life. If you are not in a dramatically different place and state of mind from your first degree, it's going to be hard to succeed.

 

Also I think you need to be realistic with your chances. You need to get a 3.8+ GPA for at least two full years of a second degree. Can you? Note that I am not saying you cannot, but many people aren't able to. For Queen's and Western, can you score in the top 30% on all four sections of the MCAT, including top 10% for verbal for Western? Again - not everyone can. Will you be able to leverage your strengths and experiences into meaningful and interesting extracurricular experiences?

 

Are you a good communicator, and do you interview well?

 

Getting into medicine in Canada is a crapshoot. Doing all of the above only gives you a chance. Doing a second degree to get into medicine is definitely possible and it works out for people - but I would suspect that a much larger majority is unsuccessful in eventually getting in. Make absolutely sure that medicine is what you want and that you are in a place to do what is needed to get there.