Useful article about realities for Canadians studying abroad

[MGB]

The link to this article was posted on the U of C admissions blog. It provides some good points for those of you uncertain about whether or not to apply abroad or keep on trying in Canada. I myself was strongly considering going international after applying 3 years in Canada without even getting a single interview. This year was my fourth applying and was accepted to 2 different schools...go figure. My advice is keep on trying in Canada.

 

http://mdadmissions.ucalgaryblogs.ca/files/2011/06/Off-Shore-Medical-Training-from-CPSA1.pdf

[Mashmetoo]

The same governments who fund postgraduate

training have created human rights legislation that prohibits discrimination

on the grounds of country of origin. In simple terms, this means that as a licensing body, we cannot treat a Canadian

studying abroad any differently than any IMG, and I know of no simple way around that principle.

 

...

 

To the politicians interested in this topic, I say be honest with these students. As a society we’ve committed funds and

resources to Canadian medical graduates, not to those who choose to study abroad. Not everyone who wants to become a doctor can become a doctor, and buying a medical school position (which some are doing) may be a very poor decision.

Just because one is a Canadian citizen does not, and should not, guarantee a training position or job in Canada as a physician.

 

wow.. talk about being straight and right to the point..

[RaVen777]

Wow.. short and to the point for sure. I applied 3 times unsuccessfully as well before being accepted to two schools this year. It makes me feel very grateful for the chance to study medicine in Canada. It also makes me happy that I decided not to go abroad. I am worried about my dear friends who are studying medicine in places like Australia and the Caribbean.

[BoyInTheBubble]

I won't argue his points. He is (mostly) correct. However, the article offers very little. If you go abroad for medical school and don't look into the details, you're stupid and don't need to be 'bailed out'.

 

Why not address how this cohort of medical students can be asset to Canada? Not every medical student or doctor who trains in Canada is phenomenal. Not every IMG or CSA is terrible. But Canada needs more doctors. This is undeniable. Relying solely on Canadian-trained students has not been cutting it. (I don't have the data off hand, but I've heard almost 1 in 5 doctors in Canada are trained abroad...and the lowest -or near the bottom- of the doctors per capita in the OECD.) As the baby boomers retire, as more young doctors work fewer hours, women especially (it's not a knock - it's a fact of life that women have the babies, it takes time away from your career. It's perfectly ok, it just means there are a few years that you might not be doing as much), we will need even more doctors.

 

Yes, there are issues with "jobs". But generally speaking, those are due to a lack of resources - ie funding for operation rooms, NOT a lack of patients requiring care.

 

It's far more productive to develop a way of identifying the properly trained doctors. And a way to open up more residency positions. Community hospitals are significantly underused in training. The author is right: Canada has "committed funds and resources to Canadian medical graduates" but there is no reason to stop there. Canada SHOULD do more to attract doctors. It's better for everyone.

 

Many provinces, such as NFLD, have terrible rates of attracting and retaining Canadian medical graduates. Even people from NFLD want to leave for greener pastures. Is better to consistently rely on immigrants years from training and limited English or to train young people who know Canadian expectations? (No, not all IMGs are old, non-english speakers.)

 

Too many doctors is a good problem to have...and Canada isn't close.

[IamSuperDoctor]

The author claims that getting back into Canada is difficult. Well, he is right. Nothing new here. Most international students do not limit themselves to Canada when applying for residency. For instance, the country below us (USA) has a ~300 million population to support.

[Mashmetoo]

I won't argue his points. He is (mostly) correct. However, the article offers very little. If you go abroad for medical school and don't look into the details, you're stupid and don't need to be 'bailed out'.

 

Why not address how this cohort of medical students can be asset to Canada? Not every medical student or doctor who trains in Canada is phenomenal. Not every IMG or CSA is terrible. But Canada needs more doctors. This is undeniable. Relying solely on Canadian-trained students has not been cutting it. (I don't have the data off hand, but I've heard almost 1 in 5 doctors in Canada are trained abroad...and the lowest -or near the bottom- of the doctors per capita in the OECD.) As the baby boomers retire, as more young doctors work fewer hours, women especially (it's not a knock - it's a fact of life that women have the babies, it takes time away from your career. It's perfectly ok, it just means there are a few years that you might not be doing as much), we will need even more doctors.

 

Well, I think the author addressed the "perception" of CSA that Canada needs more doctors, but I don't think he's entirely convinced that Canada in fact needs more doctors. There was this paper done by healthforceontario, their simulation claims that the specialist shortage will disappear by 2014, and the FM shortage by 2017... Right now, as it stands, with domestic "production" of MDs and whatever existant system in place to capture the CSAs/IMGs, USgrads, Canada seems to be solving the "shortage" problem.

 

Also, the key here is the vast numbers of CSAs.. 700 per year! SEVEN HUNDRED! It's simply a hard cold case of logistics that Canada does NOT have the capacity to absorb this many CSAs... It's almost like Darwinian evolution.. more offspring are produced than can survive.. only the most well adapted make it...

 

Yes, there are issues with "jobs". But generally speaking, those are due to a lack of resources - ie funding for operation rooms, NOT a lack of patients requiring care.

 

It's far more productive to develop a way of identifying the properly trained doctors. And a way to open up more residency positions. Community hospitals are significantly underused in training. The author is right: Canada has "committed funds and resources to Canadian medical graduates" but there is no reason to stop there. Canada SHOULD do more to attract doctors. It's better for everyone.

 

That's the other issue.. with universal healthcare and all, the government subsidizes the costs of medcare, and pays the doctor bills. More doctors = more government costs. Maybe the government can't afford more doctors, this was the case in the 90s when they cut back on the allowed seats of med students entering school.. and we ended up with a shortage. This is also the reason why there's only 1 "new" med school that opened up in Canada over the last (like) 40 years - NOSM... An effort by the government to control the numbers of docs. Heck, even 2 years ago at UofC, the government called up the school and told them to accept 20 more students into that year's class.. I know because I know a guy in that cohort who got accepted off the waitlist due to that phone call...

 

Many provinces, such as NFLD, have terrible rates of attracting and retaining Canadian medical graduates. Even people from NFLD want to leave for greener pastures. Is better to consistently rely on immigrants years from training and limited English or to train young people who know Canadian expectations? (No, not all IMGs are old, non-english speakers.)

 

Too many doctors is a good problem to have...and Canada isn't close.

 

Again, this becomes an issue of human rights and discrimination that the author addresses. It's not right to ignore the IMGs (although with "bad" english, but they have years and years of experience from their home countries) while favoring the CSAs. In fact, there was also a lawsuit back in the 90s too (I think) that addressed this specifically, discrimination against IMGs that were not graduates of the commonwealth nations. The end result of this lawsuit was the establishment of what the author described - no discrimination of IMG vs CSA.

 

Also, if you go to the States, there's lots of jitters about the massive expansion of med schools, people are saying that doctors will go the way of lawyers - oversaturation of the market, leading to decreased worth for all doctors... I don't think too many doctors is a good problem.. Heck, if you look back in history, right after WWII, there's an oversaturation of doctors, and no one could find work... History my friend.. history

[IamSuperDoctor]

Actually, in the USA the gap between supply and demand for doctors is increasing and will be ~100k-200k by 2025. As a result, the Association of American Medical College called for additional enrollment in medical schools. However, the number of residency spots is not increasing as fast as med school enrollment. This is the "buzz," there are no fears of oversaturation.

[Mashmetoo]

Actually, in the USA the gap between supply and demand for doctors is increasing and will be ~100k-200k by 2025. As a result, the Association of American Medical College called for additional enrollment in medical schools. However, the number of residency spots is not increasing as fast as med school enrollment. This is the "buzz," there are no fears of oversaturation.

 

Have we been reading the same forums on SDN? Seems like every other day a pre-med/med will b!tch and moan about med school expansion and what it'll do to the profession. There's definitely fears of over abundant supply of docs on SDN. - 9 new DO schools will open before 2014 (curently ~26), god knows how many more MD schools. Projections will be projections, with all the expansion, people are afraid of the perceived oversaturation.