Plan Advice Much Appreciated

[mr.o]

Hello All!

 

So, I've made a concerted decision to pursue medicine over the course of this summer, took the Princeton Review Study course and plan to take the next year of my Masters ahead to finish my thesis, take a full year of orgo and study for MCAT in the background. My plan to pursue medicine is still in its nascent stages and, as such, I would greatly appreciate any tips/advice on how to make the best of the years ahead and prepare to be the best med student possible.

 

My undergrad stats are as follows:

 

Overall GPA: 3.80

Best two years: 3.88

 

Master's Stats:

Year 1: 3.94

 

I plan to write my MCAT next March after more time for study. The two schools which stand out the most to me are McMaster and Ottawa U. Following the completion of my thesis this year (fingers crossed) I hope to go into an undergrad biomed program to acquire useful background information while volunteering at a hospital to ensure that I am well ready for the material and experiences that lie ahead!

 

Your advice and feedback would be immensely appreciated!

[MD2019_A]

Did you take a full course load in every year? Still, your GPA for UWO, Queens, UofT, Mac seems competitive. Why are you planning to do a second undergrad? You dont need it. You'll need to meet the MCAT cut offs and have decent ECs and you're set. Good luck

[mr.o]

I was enrolled in a full course load every year. I recognize that I don't need the second undergrad, but I am very interested in studying anatomy, biochemistry and other related courses as I feel it would help me develop a more-in depth knowledge of these medically related subjects. Not only would this help me be a better med student, but hopefully a better doctor. Additionally, if all works out after the one year in Biomed I will hopefully make it into med.

 

Conversely, if I work at a job or volunteer position full time, I feel it would be unfair to these organizations to invest time and effort in training me when I will disappear after a year. Also, comparatively speaking, I feel that I could learn a great deal more in courses than at a job that would likely not be directly related to medicine (due to my background in Enviro Sci).

 

Thank you for the feedback and encouragement!

[lovestruck]

I agree that you don't need the 2nd undergrad. It costs a lot of money to pay for med school, so save yourself the cash and don't do the 2nd undergrad. Almost all of the Ontario schools state that you don't need a background in anatomy,etc because they will teach you all of that. I've heard that some even prefer students without previous knowledge on the subjects since then they have a clean slate and don't have to unteach concepts that may have been explained incorrectly or are now out of date. If you really want to do the undergrad then go for it, but it won't benefit you neither on the knowledge side nor on the grades side very much. Also, you risk the chance of doing badly in a course and lowering your GPA.

[future_doc]

If you really want to do the undergrad then go for it, but it won't benefit you neither on the knowledge side nor on the grades side very much. Also, you risk the chance of doing badly in a course and lowering your GPA.

 

Reconsider your approach.

[rmorelan]

I was enrolled in a full course load every year. I recognize that I don't need the second undergrad, but I am very interested in studying anatomy, biochemistry and other related courses as I feel it would help me develop a more-in depth knowledge of these medically related subjects. Not only would this help me be a better med student, but hopefully a better doctor. Additionally, if all works out after the one year in Biomed I will hopefully make it into med.

 

Conversely, if I work at a job or volunteer position full time, I feel it would be unfair to these organizations to invest time and effort in training me when I will disappear after a year. Also, comparatively speaking, I feel that I could learn a great deal more in courses than at a job that would likely not be directly related to medicine (due to my background in Enviro Sci).

 

Thank you for the feedback and encouragement!

 

Hi there! Personally if I were you (and my situation was actually similar to yours) I would simply complete the Masters and do well on the MCAT. I completed after my masters program additional training in bio sci studies as well (at the time I was't sure I wanted to go into medicine actually) - those courses are actually not all that useful surprisingly - they did not enhance my studies very much at all. If you want to learn medicine the best place to do it is at medical school and medical schools are designed to teach everything you need to know from scratch

 

Do well on the MCAT and every school in Ontario suddenly becomes open to you as an applicant with what you already have.

 

As for volunteering if you spent a full year at an organization you are already greatly exceeding the amount of time that most people spend at an organization! Greatly exceed so I would not begin to worry about that

[lovestruck]

Reconsider your approach.

 

Not sure I understand?

 

One of my friends took a bunch of interest courses after graduation because she never had time for them in her degree. We all thought it was a cool idea at first. However, she ended up hating all of them (she was in science and the courses were English and she was not used to reading tons of books and writing essays) and it absolutely killed her GPA to the point where she had to go and do MORE courses that she hated to bring it back up to be able to apply for a masters! So that's the experience that I remembered when making that statement. Sorry if it sounded a little crass.

[future_doc]

Do not undertake further undergrad studies. Andif you happen to have the chem prerequisites for U/O, apply now.

 

Hi there! Personally if I were you (and my situation was actually similar to yours) I would simply complete the Masters and do well on the MCAT. I completed after my masters program additional training in bio sci studies as well (at the time I was't sure I wanted to go into medicine actually) - those courses are actually not all that useful surprisingly - they did not enhance my studies very much at all. If you want to learn medicine the best place to do it is at medical school and medical schools are designed to teach everything you need to know from scratch

 

Do well on the MCAT and every school in Ontario suddenly becomes open to you as an applicant with what you already have.

 

As for volunteering if you spent a full year at an organization you are already greatly exceeding the amount of time that most people spend at an organization! Greatly exceed so I would not begin to worry about that

[simpy]

Yeah. Don't take more undergrad. My first thought was similar to rmorelan's - I think you'll learn more "in the real world" than you would in more classes. Classes give you information, but the real world teaches you a whole lot more.

[DeeKay]

Overall GPA: 3.80

Best two years: 3.88

 

Master's Stats:

Year 1: 3.94

 

 

I think you are competitive for most Ontario schools already. Some don't require pre-reqs at all. I would give it a try. The MCAT if you study the material enough (like crazy) should not be difficult though you do not have a background.

Just focus on making your application stand out. If not there is always next year... You do not need a second degree IMO

[mr.o]

Thank you all for the feedback and your thoughts. However, I'm inclined to disagree for the following reasons:

 

1: I have a strong desire to deepen my background in courses related to medicine especially anatomy and physiology, from a friend in U of C's 3 year program he informs me that his classes assume background knowledge of anatomy and, lacking that, he has to work twice as hard. Knowing the destination and since I am interested in 3-year programs, I feel that it would be a good use of time working hard now to make med school a tad more enjoyable later.

 

2: If I find a job, it would be unrelated to medicine at best and would not enable me to explore my interest to ensure that medicine is the correct fit. Additionally, to find a decent job, I would have to conceal the fact from my employer that I only plant to be there for 1-2 years

 

3: I would like to get involved in medical/environment research and the undergrad is an excellent opportunity for that

 

4: Of course there is a risk of getting bad grades, but I faced that in undergrad and with hard work and dedication it didn't happen. If I apply myself and work hard at it I'll not only learn a good deal but have decent enough marks

 

5: The plan isn't to go for a full second degree, rather it is to spend the time prior to med school taking useful courses, perhaps conducting research, volunteering with medical organizations and preparing myself to be a good physician. I'm hoping to get in after one or two years in my second undergrad and having background knowledge that won't go to waste.

 

In light of these points above, does this plan make any more sense or do you feel that I am still barking up the wrong tree?

[kylamonkey]

Well, I don't think that your plan is poor, for what's it's worth. I think a lot of people seem to be concerned about the lack of time spent in the workforce, but if money isn't an issue then go for it. I doubt your GPA is going to slip.

Anatomy will probably not help too much on the MCAT (although I haven't taken anat myself yet).

 

Be aware that you may NOT get into medicine. You may at that point feel like anatomy and physiology courses were a waste of time. However, if you're interested in lots of things (I am too) then it probably won't feel like a waste.

 

It's your life, and you can do what you like. It sounds like you've made up your mind, and to be honest, your plan won't reduce your competitiveness (provided you maintain your GPA), so go for it. BUT it won't increase your competitiveness either, IMO.

 

Only one question for you:

Do you have any work experience? Or have you been a student for your whole adult life? I ask not because the adcom would care (they probably wouldn't) but because if you have the opportunity you should really seek it out. Here's the thing- I've had jobs where I had to be working 40hrs/week and studying another 20hrs per week. I LIKE that, and don't have a problem maintaining it. I know from being a waitress that I don't like being bored. I know from being a personal trainer that I LOVE teaching people about their health. I know from retail sales that I'm a good manager of others. I know from running my own business that I don't like having to defer to others when I have the knowledge, and I like autonomy. Having jobs, even these "lowly" short term jobs, has taught me a lot. Don't knock the jobs route. Do you work well with people? Do you come across as elitist to people? Do you know what it's like to talk to people 40hrs per week, and all sorts of people, not just the ones in your lab?

 

Maybe you've been through all this, and thought it all through, but it's worth it for me to ask you.

[DOC_Ma]

Thank you all for the feedback and your thoughts. However, I'm inclined to disagree for the following reasons:

 

 

Here's my thoughts

 

1: I have a strong desire to deepen my background in courses related to medicine especially anatomy and physiology, from a friend in U of C's 3 year program he informs me that his classes assume background knowledge of anatomy and, lacking that, he has to work twice as hard. Knowing the destination and since I am interested in 3-year programs, I feel that it would be a good use of time working hard now to make med school a tad more enjoyable later.

 

I am not familiar with other schools but from my limited knowledge i think anatomy is taught from scratch at most schools and it's definitely the case at uoft. If you have the ability and the drive to do well now why just do well in med school? They teach you these things there anyway and you can do well there.

 

 

2: If I find a job, it would be unrelated to medicine at best and would not enable me to explore my interest to ensure that medicine is the correct fit. Additionally, to find a decent job, I would have to conceal the fact from my employer that I only plant to be there for 1-2 years

 

YOu can always volunteer

 

 

3: I would like to get involved in medical/environment research and the undergrad is an excellent opportunity for that

 

YOu can email prof's to volunteer in their labs. Eventually you might land a lab tech job that solves the problem all together. YOu dont need to be an undergrad in order to find a research job

 

 

4: Of course there is a risk of getting bad grades, but I faced that in undergrad and with hard work and dedication it didn't happen. If I apply myself and work hard at it I'll not only learn a good deal but have decent enough marks

 

No doubt that you will do well but what for? You already have he grades to apply to med

 

 

5: The plan isn't to go for a full second degree, rather it is to spend the time prior to med school taking useful courses, perhaps conducting research, volunteering with medical organizations and preparing myself to be a good physician. I'm hoping to get in after one or two years in my second undergrad and having background knowledge that won't go to waste.

 

Now that's a major problem. Some schools require you to finish your second undergrad before entering med school so you can't just stop half way during your second undergrad. Western is the school that comes to my mind first but I am sure there's others that require the same. Why limit yourself in that way?

 

 

In light of these points above, does this plan make any more sense or do you feel that I am still barking up the wrong tree?

 

Conclusion: You definitely have the right attitude about medicine (you wanna do well and be a good physician and I respect that) but your approach at it could be better (saves you money and time and reaches the same end goal that you have proposed)

[Satsuma]

My opinion, for what it is worth is that go ahead and take more courses if you are interested in the courses but not because you think it will be useful to you as a med student or make you a better physician. Med school is designed to make you into a competent doc without prior knowledge. Delaying the start of med school to take courses that frankly are irrelevant to the progression of you career seems like a bad choice - but one you are entitled to take. Keep in mind you will mostly learn how to be a competent physician in clerkship and residency. Those first 2 years of med school are important, sure, but it is not in the classroom where you learn to be a doc.

 

You already seem to be competitive on the academic side of things.

 

If you are contemplating medicine as a career - I don't think that more classwork is going to help you make that choice.

Volunteer somewhere - it doesn't even have to be medically related. Work with all kinds of people, kids, adults, homeless, people with developmental disabilities, psych conditions etc - see if you really like all kinds of people 'cause you'll be dealing with them all day. And that's a huge part of medicine that alot of people don't fully appreciate before starting. And I'm sure there are alot of other things other than classwork that could help out - but I am post call right now and my brain is done !

[mr.o]

Well, I don't think that your plan is poor, for what's it's worth. I think a lot of people seem to be concerned about the lack of time spent in the workforce, but if money isn't an issue then go for it. I doubt your GPA is going to slip.

Anatomy will probably not help too much on the MCAT (although I haven't taken anat myself yet).

 

Be aware that you may NOT get into medicine. You may at that point feel like anatomy and physiology courses were a waste of time. However, if you're interested in lots of things (I am too) then it probably won't feel like a waste.

 

It's your life, and you can do what you like. It sounds like you've made up your mind, and to be honest, your plan won't reduce your competitiveness (provided you maintain your GPA), so go for it. BUT it won't increase your competitiveness either, IMO.

 

Only one question for you:

Do you have any work experience? Or have you been a student for your whole adult life? I ask not because the adcom would care (they probably wouldn't) but because if you have the opportunity you should really seek it out. Here's the thing- I've had jobs where I had to be working 40hrs/week and studying another 20hrs per week. I LIKE that, and don't have a problem maintaining it. I know from being a waitress that I don't like being bored. I know from being a personal trainer that I LOVE teaching people about their health. I know from retail sales that I'm a good manager of others. I know from running my own business that I don't like having to defer to others when I have the knowledge, and I like autonomy. Having jobs, even these "lowly" short term jobs, has taught me a lot. Don't knock the jobs route. Do you work well with people? Do you come across as elitist to people? Do you know what it's like to talk to people 40hrs per week, and all sorts of people, not just the ones in your lab?

 

Maybe you've been through all this, and thought it all through, but it's worth it for me to ask you.

 

Thanks for the post Kyla that was most enlightening! Your wealth of experiences will certainly must come in quite handy. My apologies if it appeared that I was knocking the work route, that was definitely not what I had in mind, rather I was concerned that I would be wasting the time and effort invested by an employer to train me only to have me disappear after a year or two. I guess you could say that I have been a student for my whole adult life but as I am in my early 20's it has not been all that long (6 years when I'm finished the Masters). My work experience includes a summer in China working in Environmental Health and Safety in a Factory, Starting a small business and working in research with a professor.

 

All of these posts have definitely broadened my perspective though and I will keep an eye out for health-related job openings and/or year-long volunteer opportunities or research positions.

[mr.o]

My opinion, for what it is worth is that go ahead and take more courses if you are interested in the courses but not because you think it will be useful to you as a med student or make you a better physician. Med school is designed to make you into a competent doc without prior knowledge. Delaying the start of med school to take courses that frankly are irrelevant to the progression of you career seems like a bad choice - but one you are entitled to take. Keep in mind you will mostly learn how to be a competent physician in clerkship and residency. Those first 2 years of med school are important, sure, but it is not in the classroom where you learn to be a doc.

 

You already seem to be competitive on the academic side of things.

 

If you are contemplating medicine as a career - I don't think that more classwork is going to help you make that choice.

Volunteer somewhere - it doesn't even have to be medically related. Work with all kinds of people, kids, adults, homeless, people with developmental disabilities, psych conditions etc - see if you really like all kinds of people 'cause you'll be dealing with them all day. And that's a huge part of medicine that alot of people don't fully appreciate before starting. And I'm sure there are alot of other things other than classwork that could help out - but I am post call right now and my brain is done !

 

Some very valid points! However, still have to write an MCAT so I have a year's lead time at any rate and won't really be delaying the start of med school. I've taken your point to heart though and will start searching for full-time volunteer opportunites/research jobs related to environmental health.