Health Sciences at MAC

[rcsipremed]

I am applying for health sci at MAC and was wondering what they really look for. ive talked to many reps and they all say a well rounded person

 

i was wondering if anyone who has been accepted into this program can tell me how you got in (what marks and extra curriculars etc.) and the supplementary

 

thanks!

[dassy]

My year (2007-2008) there was a 94% internal cut-off.

[dr34mXXX]

i'm in 4th year bhsc.

 

in my opinion, approach the supplement app with full honesty and just be yourself

[Diceroll2011]

I have some insight into the selection process, that I rather not disclose but...

 

The cutoff is always 90%, no matter what you hear from anyone else. Once you hit 90%, it is all supplementary app.

 

Your supplementary app is marked by a few students. It's going to be highly subjective, but these students have been through a number of years of BHSc and "know who is a good fit".

 

My advice is to be unique, honest and list a number of your EC experiences. I wouldn't use it as an opportunity to brag endlessly, but do give them the impression that you are someone who likes to be involved. I read through a number of supplementary apps, and I can tell you the ones that did the worst are the ones that gave bland expected answers. Interject wit, a moderate and well-considered viewpoint into every question and I think you will stand out.

 

I myself, am not a BHSc graduate, and don't claim to be able to speak for everyone who is going to mark your app. It's a great program, but it's not for everyone (myself included), just write a good app and consider whether it is the program for you over the next few months.

[mig174]

You should write about how you anticipate getting an unfair advantage over everyone else due to GPA inflation when it's time to apply for medical school.

[Mr.Sloth]

You should write about how you anticipate getting an unfair advantage over everyone else due to GPA inflation when it's time to apply for medical school.

 

Do you have any facts to back that up? Whenever the issue of grade inflation comes up you also need to look at the students that compose the program. When you only accept high school grads that exceed 90% you are selecting students that would likely excel regardless of their program; BHSc simply has a higher concentration of these students than other larger programs.

[eastboundanddown]

In my opinion, high school stats stand for very little. I also believe that the program has a reputation for grade inflation. With that being said, I would never discourage anyone from applying. You have to play the game. If you want to get into med school (especially if you want to get into MAC) then it is an exceptional choice.

[mig174]

high school marks mean little - in many ways, because of aforementioned grade inflation. The formula for success in university is very different from the one for success in high school.

[Caliver]

In my opinion, high school stats stand for very little. I also believe that the program has a reputation for grade inflation. With that being said, I would never discourage anyone from applying. You have to play the game. If you want to get into med school (especially if you want to get into MAC) then it is an exceptional choice.

 

I do not want to start a flame war but I just want to say that I wonder where the grade inflation is coming from.

BHSc specific courses tend to be the source of lower marks for my friends and myself.

I suppose the grade inflation is coming from the normal courses we take with students from other faculties?

 

And I agree that high school means little. Although it seems like a high percentage of BHSc students do well in school, there still are students who struggle and get relatively low GPA (that is 3.3-3.5).

[Diceroll2011]

You may be finding other courses than your Health Sci courses easier, but that's because you're taking the bird courses from other faculties.

 

There's tons of tougher science classes where you won't find a single health sci.

[inspiring-curmudgeon]

Do you have any facts to back that up? Whenever the issue of grade inflation comes up you also need to look at the students that compose the program. When you only accept high school grads that exceed 90% you are selecting students that would likely excel regardless of their program; BHSc simply has a higher concentration of these students than other larger programs.

 

Higher concentration, yes, but higher net students, definitely not.

 

Example: Health sic has about 200ish (I don't know the actual number) students with a 90+ average. Sure that's a super high concentration, but the net students are about 200.

 

UofT, UWO, Queens (all the life sci programs) have a lower concentration, but more net students with 90+ averages.

 

However, mac health sci seems to produce higher GPAs than all the aforementioned programs combined. In my degree at UWO, there were 350 kids, and the high school entering average was 88%. However, by third year, probably under 10 kids had a 4.0. Can't say the same for mac.

 

Now that we've established that it's not the high school excellence that dictates the performance of mac health sci grads, the other two things left are the supplementary app as an excellent predictor, or an easier program.

 

I doubt an arbitrary supplementary app marked by students selects for people who do amazing at university. So I'm kind of leaning towards the fact that the program may be a lot easier than others.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know some amazing mac health sci grads who are going to make amazing doctors. But I also know amazing grads from other programs, and I feel like if the health sci grads were put into those programs, they wouldn't have done as well as they would in health sci. A program with this kind of inflation is just unfair to all the other applicants applying to medical school.

[inspiring-curmudgeon]

This.

 

I don't go to Mac, but I have friends who do, and they've told me all about the special yoga classes to deal with the "stress of being a health sci," and apparently their 'thesis' consists of a poster...no write-up required LOL. My one friend actually turned down health sci (he didn't know how birdy it was) and he is kicking himself now! Actually, I hear there are more students from health sci on the 4.0 list than from all other programs combined. I doubt health sci people are any smarter, so that is suspicious.

 

But yeah, at schools like U of T, where there a a HUGE number of students with 90+ high school averages, they still get owned just like everyone else. Maybe their GPA is a little higher, like a 3.4 on average vs a 2.9, but they certainly aren't getting 3.9+.

 

I turned down mac health sci, and I'm still glad that I did

[thehumanmacbook]

I turned down mac health sci, and I'm still glad that I did

 

You made the right choice.

[mig174]

This subject has, of course, been debated at length in these forums (just check past threads), but it's nice to bring it up so that newer generations don't forget.

 

Usually, the only people who deny the fact that there is grade inflation at Mac Health Sci are in the program themselves. Though, there are, thankfully, honest healthscis that acknowledge the fact, as well.

[aaronjw]

You made the right choice.

 

Nice to see you posting more often again

[funnyboy6]

Lol, another Mac Health Sci thread. For the record, I'm not mac health sci (I didn't even have the guts to apply, because I thought I would get rejected)

 

Heres the bottom line: first, if you have a program in which the all the students had 90%+ average in high school and were well-rounded, chances are they will do well no matter where they go.

 

Second, I haven't seen any objective proof that there is grade inflation. I'm sure med school committees would have detected this far before any of us have. And if the program is really "bird", the grads will get hit hard in med school. Either way, they will have to face the challenges that other students face.

 

Third, every school has its fare share of bird courses. And as you go into your upper years, class sizes tend to decrease and class averages increase.

 

Finally, I've met and talked to Mac health sci students. There no different from other pre-med students. Some are laid back, others are more tightly-wound, and everything in between. In the end, it doesn't matter where you go as much as how you do (I know that's been said a trillion times, but its true). Just be sincere, try hard, get involved, and enjoy your time in university!

[Caliver]

This.

 

I don't go to Mac, but I have friends who do, and they've told me all about the special yoga classes to deal with the "stress of being a health sci," and apparently their 'thesis' consists of a poster...no write-up required LOL. My one friend actually turned down health sci (he didn't know how birdy it was) and he is kicking himself now! Actually, I hear there are more students from health sci on the 4.0 list than from all other programs combined. I doubt health sci people are any smarter, so that is suspicious.

 

But yeah, at schools like U of T, where there a a HUGE number of students with 90+ high school averages, they still get owned just like everyone else. Maybe their GPA is a little higher, like a 3.4 on average vs a 2.9, but they certainly aren't getting 3.9+.

Well.. I agree the class involving "yoga" is a joke. However, it is based on P/F system so it does not boost your marks in any way and may play against you if you gain a low mark in some courses (because you have a lower denominator). Believe or not, this course requires a fair amount of work (you have to do research about the relationship between health psychology and 3 different activities - mindfulness, applied drama and physical fitness and do a presentation every two weeks. It is not that easy for science-y people like myself. And I felt unmotivated due to its P/F system lol so it ended up giving me more stress (because the presentations still have to be of high quality). I found it to be a bit of drag rather than a relief as you make it sound here.

 

Don't get me wrong here - I am not trying to defend my own program. I don't like some aspects of it just the same as you guys (e.g. "destress class").

You mentioned.. there are people who take an easy way out with easy electives. But I think that can happen in any generalized programs (e.g. Honours Life Sciences - general stream) where you do not have many prerequisites. Keep in mind though that not everyone takes easy electives. Some people do care about the value of tuition they pay every year.

 

And not everyone gets 3.9+... lol. that is a huge misconception. Sure, in first year, people may get some good marks due to the "chillness" of it. After all, we have Inquiry, where you sit there to discuss about developing your life long skills. This may sound and come across as BS to some people or may not be so to others. Anyways, people do tend to get good marks here because some people... know how to BS their way out (or some actually do work).

 

However, as they enter second and third year, their "true" nature starts to reveal. Some people do horribly in anatomy, epi, stats, critical apprasial, etc (as in C-B range). So I do not think everyone has 3.9+ (at least from what I know).

 

There may be a few higher percentage of kids who get 3.9+ but we do not know as there is no published data. After all, you may just have smart friends around you and may be exposed to volunteer bias Not everyone talks about their marks truthfully or even reveals their marks unless they have some good reasons.

 

The program has some good perks - helpful, friendly and very approachable office and friendly student body (upper years do give lots of help). But, I do not think it is exceedingly easy compared to other programs (though it does have some chill aspects, such as first year inquiry or lots of electives just as in any generalized programs).

 

But I agree with you guys that the program is not for everyone

[thehumanmacbook]

This subject has, of course, been debated at length in these forums (just check past threads), but it's nice to bring it up so that newer generations don't forget.

 

Usually, the only people who deny the fact that there is grade inflation at Mac Health Sci are in the program themselves. Though, there are, thankfully, honest healthscis that acknowledge the fact, as well.

 

I admit it, and to be honest I'm sorry for it - but it's something that a student can't control. A lot of people here try their best, and are very forthcoming with the issue at hand. However they are in the vast minority, while the others hide behind statements such as "our learning process is different, we're PBL, grades don't matter, we get more from our undergrad than other programs" to justify the marks and their drive towards med - the faculty shines and displays these on their main website. In general the students here are very self-driven and ambitious - perhaps that is a main factor of success deployable anywhere in life. The program does lack scientific rigor (very few labs, I don't think basic science can be adequately taught through PBL...and maybe this is a weakness apparent in Mac Med as well) though we are trained very well in the art of maintaining rapport in groups and being self-reflective as a whole. Ironically this is what Mac Med seems to admire in their MMI, so perhaps it could explain the influx of health scis back into their own med school...but I do need more data or a report on this before I go too far in my own statements.

 

This has been debated many times here in this forum, and after quite a long time in this program I'm too tired to argue anything anymore to a deaf and silent crowd. If you want to get in, try your best and milk it for all that it's worth. If you don't, there are other programs that you can work hard in and gain even more than I may have in here. Just remember to dress accordingly for the occasion: that is, know what med schools are looking for and try to cater yourself for it. That's what we all do, and you don't need a BHSc to do it.

 

/rant/

[thehumanmacbook]

Nice to see you posting more often again

 

lol yup, just very tired after work and stuff so it's been a drag lately. But I'll be posting more often in the future, I think

[SoSo]

Usually, the only people who deny the fact that there is grade inflation at Mac Health Sci are in the program themselves.

 

Well, I can counteract that with: generally, the people who feel so strongly about Hlth Sci being a "grade-inflated" program, etc., etc. are those that were rejected from it.

 

There are obviously exceptions to this.

[mm88]

Heres the bottom line: first, if you have a program in which the all the students had 90%+ average in high school and were well-rounded, chances are they will do well no matter where they go.

 

 

Except that the required grades you quote are in the exact same ball park as those for Life Sci @ UTSG. I don't see most people coming out of there with 90%+ averages. I'm also pretty sure no UTSC Life Sci graduating class has EVER had >50% acceptance rate to professional medical programs. Kinda makes you wonder if there's something fishy going on there!

 

(I attended neither programs but have several friends in both.)

[JJ88]

This is so NOT the case. the UTSG life sci incoming classes have nowhere near a 90+ average. I went there for undergrad and I would say the majority are average to above average students. Two completely different programs that cannot be compared.

 

This health sci mac debate is so old. If there were something "fishy" going on, I'm sure something would have been done about it. The program has been around for a while now. But I guess there will always be rejects/those that are bitter that need something to complain about...

 

Except that the required grades you quote are in the exact same ball park as those for Life Sci @ UTSG. I don't see most people coming out of there with 90%+ averages. I'm also pretty sure no UTSC Life Sci graduating class has EVER had >50% acceptance rate to professional medical programs. Kinda makes you wonder if there's something fishy going on there!

 

(I attended neither programs but have several friends in both.)

[charmer08]

Lol, another Mac Health Sci thread. For the record, I'm not mac health sci (I didn't even have the guts to apply, because I thought I would get rejected)

 

Heres the bottom line: first, if you have a program in which the all the students had 90%+ average in high school and were well-rounded, chances are they will do well no matter where they go.

 

Second, I haven't seen any objective proof that there is grade inflation. I'm sure med school committees would have detected this far before any of us have. And if the program is really "bird", the grads will get hit hard in med school. Either way, they will have to face the challenges that other students face.

 

Third, every school has its fare share of bird courses. And as you go into your upper years, class sizes tend to decrease and class averages increase.

 

Finally, I've met and talked to Mac health sci students. There no different from other pre-med students. Some are laid back, others are more tightly-wound, and everything in between. In the end, it doesn't matter where you go as much as how you do (I know that's been said a trillion times, but its true). Just be sincere, try hard, get involved, and enjoy your time in university!

 

First: Students at Schulich business also had 90+ HS averages but very very few people have 3.9+ gpa and the averages end up being a B for their classes in first year.

 

Second: The hardest part is getting into medschool... Once you get in, you don't have to aim for perfection (i.e. 90s).

[funnyboy6]

First: Students at Schulich business also had 90+ HS averages but very very few people have 3.9+ gpa and the averages end up being a B for their classes in first year.

 

Second: The hardest part is getting into medschool... Once you get in, you don't have to aim for perfection (i.e. 90s).

 

Hey, you bring up really good points.

 

To your first point, do you have any stats to back that up? (I'm actually curious...I don't know to much about Schulich's business program beyond the fact that it is top-notch)

 

Your second point is true. But to get some of those competitive residency positions, you have to go through more competition than undergrad. And in med school, everyone is accomplished and intelligent (the same can't be said for undergrad). If those mac health sci grads had an easy ride into med, they may be more challenged when competing for those competitive residencies.

 

Again, I would say this: Med school admission committees have probably vetted this topic to a greater extent than you and I have. I'm sure they would be aware if there was grade inflation in a particular program, especially one as famous as mac health sci.

 

Good discussion!

[charmer08]

Hey, you bring up really good points.

 

To your first point, do you have any stats to back that up? (I'm actually curious...I don't know to much about Schulich's business program beyond the fact that it is top-notch)

 

 

The top gpa in 2009 was a 8.65 in Schulich (this is only for students that just entered 3rd year and is based only on the first 2 years of school)... at york, 8.5-9.0 = A+ gpa; 8.0 = 80-90% and 9.0 = 90% and higher >>> http://www.yorku.ca/web/about_yorku/yorku_magazine/YorkU_Dec_09.pdf

 

I know about the averages of first year classes from friends.