Life of a Master's Student?

[thehumanmacbook]

Hey everyone,

 

With grad school apps coming up, I just wanted to gain a perspective from what the life of a grad student is like - particularly one at U of T. Could you perhaps give me an idea of how you spend your week divided amongst you research project, courses, etc?

 

Many thanks!

[tooty]

1800 posts and you don't know where the grad students' forum is?!?

[thehumanmacbook]

1800 posts and you don't know where the grad students' forum is?!?

 

lol Tooty; I wanted a more recent perspective if possible from members. Sorry for the seemingly deliberate unecessary post.

[osteon]

Hey everyone,

 

With grad school apps coming up, I just wanted to gain a perspective from what the life of a grad student is like - particularly one at U of T. Could you perhaps give me an idea of how you spend your week divided amongst you research project, courses, etc?

 

Many thanks!

 

Although I'm not a MSc student, I can weigh in here. The fact that it's at U of T probably won't make any difference, so anyone in grad school can respond here.

 

As for how time will be divided, it will be highly dependent on these three factors:

 

1. number of courses you have to take

2. the size of your research project

3. how hard you're willing to work

 

If you want out in two years or less, expect 60+ hours per week on average.

 

1st year you'll focus mostly on coursework and writing your research proposal, getting ethics approval, ordering supplies etc. Second year should be 100% research.

Ultimately, it comes down to factor 3.

[Liz30]

Also be very careful of what lab you pick to do your research in. I didn't and ended up leaving my program despite having done well in all the coursework. A poorly planned thesis with a poorly run lab will make it very difficult to graduate. If you have a choice between a lab where that seems highly micromanaged and overbearing vs one that seems to let you do whatever you'd like, pick the overbearing one. It's what you need during your masters to make sure you get it done.

[apache]

I never did a Masters but worked in labs for almost 2 years and this is bang on. Number 3 is by far the most important, I'd also like to mention the topic you do your masters in. One of my best buds was in the lab at 8 and usually out by 4-5, one of the girls in another lab i worked in was there 15 hours a day. One of my buddies finished his chem PhD in 3 years but he put in 15 hours a day, and got a bit lucky with his results.

 

The description of first and second year is right bang on, you'll probably have a smaller research project as well in first year, and a few courses, depending on the lab. But once you hit second year, it's pretty much all research and TA'ing (if you have too, if you have huge grant funding and your department doesn't require it you can skip out on this)

 

Although I'm not a MSc student, I can weigh in here. The fact that it's at U of T probably won't make any difference, so anyone in grad school can respond here.

 

As for how time will be divided, it will be highly dependent on these three factors:

 

1. number of courses you have to take

2. the size of your research project

3. how hard you're willing to work

 

If you want out in two years or less, expect 60+ hours per week on average.

 

1st year you'll focus mostly on coursework and writing your research proposal, getting ethics approval, ordering supplies etc. Second year should be 100% research.

Ultimately, it comes down to factor 3.

[apache]

yeah, my 8-4 buddy didn't get any publications in his masters, and it took him 3.5 years to get his masters. he had to learn on his own how to push himself since the pi had a very passive demeanour (although she was top 2-3 in the world in her sub-field of psychology, she only had 2 grad students, both slack, but she did tons of collaborative work with more ambitious grad students and profs in other labs because she wasn't the kind of person to be willing to push you if you were slacking, she also did collaborative work with researchers from all over the world, so while she was very demanding of herself and whoever wanted to work, if you were a slacker she wouldn't mention anything)

 

consequently, this guys really picked up the pace in the last few years (during his phd, and put out tons of publications), and has fixed his cv so he'll be good for a post doc and if lucky an assistant professorship (which, honestly, will probably come out of person connections with the pi, since she's quite venerated in her field)

 

Also be very careful of what lab you pick to do your research in. I didn't and ended up leaving my program despite having done well in all the coursework. A poorly planned thesis with a poorly run lab will make it very difficult to graduate. If you have a choice between a lab where that seems highly micromanaged and overbearing vs one that seems to let you do whatever you'd like, pick the overbearing one. It's what you need during your masters to make sure you get it done.

[lovestruck]

For me, grad life is pretty sweet. My technique is hard to learn but once mastered, its high throughput. I work 8-4 most days with a few days in there where I leave earlier or stay later. Previous lab members have done this and are usually done in 2-2.5 years. In the lab we have a limited number of apparatuses for doing experiments, so everyone usually works on experiment 3 times a week and does analysis/classes the other days. My program only requires me to take one class a semester so that takes out one of my week days. We don't TA as our prof prefers that we don't. My lab has a very professional feel to it and it feels very much like a working environment and not much like school. That can be good (less slacking) and bad (few social activities).

 

The "lifestyle" itself really sucks in some ways. You make very little money. You work like a dog. Things often fail. Funding determines much of what happens with your project. You have almost no workers rights, which means you can work everyday for 12 hours a day and get no extra money, etc. But if you really like what you're doing, at the end of the day, it seems worth it. There's also lots of fun times too. I'll never forget the first day I did my experiment and it was successful. Or the feeling of pride when my prof congratulated me on mastering a difficult technique. You'll make lots of friends, some enemies and meet a whole lot of interesting and strange people. All in all it's a unique and interesting experience.

[invincible110]

Yes I agree with most people here. I am almost finishing up my Ph.D. at UofT. Your graduate life should be determined by you and no one else. I don't agree with the poster who said you should choose an overbearing professor so that you get pushed. If you need to get pushed, you shouldn't be in grad school.

 

I strongly recommend you meet the other graduate students in the lab before you choose a lab. Lab dynamics is critical to you enjoying your time. I know many people who hate graduate school because of the environment they are in everyday. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

[stemcellgodess]

whose lab are you considering? I'm in med biophysics.

[thehumanmacbook]

Everyone, thanks so much for the responses. I'm looking at vision science research at either St. Mike's or U of T; however, the research proposal that I'm working on is more clinically based than actual lab work. Have individuals with MSc degrees done something along these lines - or am I perhaps looking at the wrong degree?

[stemcellgodess]

I'm not sure I understand. Usually students at a Masters level don't walk in with a project because the project needs to be funded and in order to get funding (an operating grant for reagents, disposables and such) you need to propose a 3-5 year project to CIHR or other funding agency with a budget in the range of $300,000-500,000. You also need a ton of preliminary data. In other words, a MSc student only has a small piece of the overall larger project.

 

Having said that, I am sure that PIs will be thrilled by your originality and initiative. With funding being what it is in Canada at the moment, I think its great that you have original ideas, I would advise you to keep an open mind in case professors prefer you to work on their research instead.

[tooty]

Everyone, thanks so much for the responses. I'm looking at vision science research at either St. Mike's or U of T; however, the research proposal that I'm working on is more clinically based than actual lab work. Have individuals with MSc degrees done something along these lines - or am I perhaps looking at the wrong degree?

 

you're writing up a project proposal before you've approached potential PIs? usually PIs have projects in mind for new grad students. you should start by looking up PIs at UT who share an interest in vision research then narrow down from there.

[osteon]

Everyone, thanks so much for the responses. I'm looking at vision science research at either St. Mike's or U of T; however, the research proposal that I'm working on is more clinically based than actual lab work. Have individuals with MSc degrees done something along these lines - or am I perhaps looking at the wrong degree?

 

A clinically based MSc is possible, depending on the program and prof. The MSc is not necessarily about the science per se; more about using the scientific method, which clinical research would certainly use. When you say proposal, this is for scholarships correct? Like posted below, you may not necessarily end up doing that project for your MSc (dependent on your profs interests too). This makes no difference for scholarship applications though, as you're normally not bound to the project you receive Master's funding for (as evidence, I changed my project when I received CIHR).

 

I'm not sure I understand. Usually students at a Masters level don't walk in with a project because the project needs to be funded and in order to get funding (an operating grant for reagents, disposables and such) you need to propose a 3-5 year project to CIHR or other funding agency with a budget in the range of $300,000-500,000. You also need a ton of preliminary data. In other words, a MSc student only has a small piece of the overall larger project.

 

Having said that, I am sure that PIs will be thrilled by your originality and initiative. With funding being what it is in Canada at the moment, I think its great that you have original ideas, I would advise you to keep an open mind in case professors prefer you to work on their research instead.

 

I know a lot of students who are doing work with no major operating grant funding. In fact, you're in fantasy land if you think every research project out there is funded for 300K. Some projects require very little cash to run and profs will often just pay this. As a result, I know many students who have started their own research project for their MSc, and personally I think you get more out of it that way. These students all have received studentships from CIHR, NSERC or other big graduate awards as well.

 

you're writing up a project proposal before you've approached potential PIs? usually PIs have projects in mind for new grad students. you should start by looking up PIs at UT who share an interest in vision research then narrow down from there.

 

As I said above, the proposal is probably for scholarship applications. However, I do agree that the OP should not get their hopes up on that particular project in case the prof has something else in mind.

[thehumanmacbook]

Thanks everyone again for the replies

 

To clarify, as Osteon prodigiously pointed out - it's for a research grant. I won't be asking PIs to take it up, but they're more than welcome to see it.

[stemcellgodess]

A clinically based MSc is possible, depending on the program and prof. The MSc is not necessarily about the science per se; more about using the scientific method, which clinical research would certainly use. When you say proposal, this is for scholarships correct? Like posted below, you may not necessarily end up doing that project for your MSc (dependent on your profs interests too). This makes no difference for scholarship applications though, as you're normally not bound to the project you receive Master's funding for (as evidence, I changed my project when I received CIHR).

 

 

 

I know a lot of students who are doing work with no major operating grant funding. In fact, you're in fantasy land if you think every research project out there is funded for 300K. Some projects require very little cash to run and profs will often just pay this. As a result, I know many students who have started their own research project for their MSc, and personally I think you get more out of it that way. These students all have received studentships from CIHR, NSERC or other big graduate awards as well.

 

 

 

As I said above, the proposal is probably for scholarship applications. However, I do agree that the OP should not get their hopes up on that particular project in case the prof has something else in mind.

 

And umm, where exactly do you think the PI gets the money to pay for it? Out of their own salary? Nope, its called an operating grant. Of course there are all sorts of grants out there, but CIHR operating grants, the ones held by the PIs, are in the range of $300-500 K. But it appears that you're right. I am off, the average grant size was $600,470.

 

 

Don't believe me, ask CIHR:

 

The summary from last year's grant cycle:

 

http://www.cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/43942.html

 

 

Average full term total grant size from the Operating Grant 2010-2011 (March) competition: $600,470.

 

Median full term total grant size from the Operating Grant 2010-2011 (March) competition: $592,298

 

 

And for the actual grants awarded:

 

http://webapps.cihr-irsc.gc.ca/cfdd/db_search?p_language=E&p_competition=201103MOP

[osteon]

And umm, where exactly do you think the PI gets the money to pay for it? Out of their own salary? Nope, its called an operating grant. Of course there are all sorts of grants out there, but CIHR operating grants, the ones held by the PIs, are in the range of $300-500 K. But it appears that you're right. I am off, the average grant size was $600,470.

 

Don't believe me, ask CIHR:

 

The summary from last year's grant cycle:

 

http://www.cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/43942.html

 

Average full term total grant size from the Operating Grant 2010-2011 (March) competition: $600,470.

 

Median full term total grant size from the Operating Grant 2010-2011 (March) competition: $592,298

 

And for the actual grants awarded:

 

http://webapps.cihr-irsc.gc.ca/cfdd/db_search?p_language=E&p_competition=201103MOP

 

Thanks for the stats on average grant size from CIHR, but they are meaningless for this discussion. Basically, what you just said was like responding to the statement "its cold outside" with "no, the sky is blue." I think you need to revisit the posts above. You said "a masters student doesn't just walk in with a project, because it needs to be funded by a 3-5 year operating grant for 300K." As a response, I said "Thats BS." At no point did I say anything regarding the average grant size from CIHR. What I did say was that not all projects need 300K in funding (I.e. In engineering, or kinesiology you can buy one testing device, and use it for every project you do for 10 years; for health/epidemiology research you just get access to a data base; English literature just rent out some books). Not everyone needs reagents and 300K of equipment to do there work. I also addressed the point that if you think every prof has 300K in operating grants from CIHR (or 600K as you have now suggested), then you have gotten the wrong idea about the research world. Yes, 600K may be the mean, but I can guarantee you that the majority of professors don't have that (not the majority of CIHR grant holders as you are describing; I'm talking about the majority of professors in general - many don't even receive a CIHR grant). The way you wrote your post makes it seem like research is impossible without 300K, which is not true at all. Lastly, I'd like to also mention that with many grad student awards, research allowances are included for around 2-5K. Hmmm, wonder what those are used for?

 

My take home points for you from my previous post and this one:

 

- an MSc student doesn't need a 300K (or 600K) operating grant to do MSc research (nor would they apply for this on there own).

 

- a lot of students make there own projects (because of point 1 above).

[claire_tea]

I hope I'm not hijacking, but I was wondering if anyone could comment on the life of a master's student who is in a course based program?