why WOULDN'T I get in??

[Guest tommygirl]

Wow! when I started this thread I had no idea it would hit such a nerve--- but my question has still (mostly) gone unanswered...

 

I was wondering if anyone could give me CONCRETE as to why they were turned down from the faculty-- ie. interview was poor, upgrade O chem, write the auto-bio more creatively etc etc.

 

While luck, looks etc etc may factor in-- and probably do to various extents, I am looking to fix the stuff I CAN control.. ..(um.. without surgery ).

[Guest Tristan]

there is nothing wrong for most of the people that get turned down. That's why it is so frustrating and comes through on this board. if you have 400 equally qualified candidates and you have to select 80, the process gets demoted to useless factors like looks, etc.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yeah. . . it's interesting to see that the number of such posts always increases around exam time, and also around the same time that batches of interview rejections are sent out. It's also interesting to note the posts made different anonymous posters who have the exact same writing style and post within minutes of each other. . . It'll be interesting to see some of the messages posted on June 1st and the ensuing days.

 

That being said, I would like to comment on what has been talked about in this thread from my perspective as a med student. Unfortunately, yes - there are people who become high on themselves upon getting into medicine. Unfortunately, society has painted the medical profession in that light (Anyone ever seen the Seinfeld episode where Elaine hopes to date a doctor?) and I'm sure there are people in medicine for the Scrubs triumverate of "Chicks, Money, Power, Chicks" (BTW - I love that episode because it then goes on to disect exactly why those things can't be found in modern medicine!!) And yes, there are some people who become extremely "cliquish". . . sometimes acting like they're still in Grade 7 and need to be voted the "most popular kid" in class (not so surprisingly, a couple of the people I know who act that way could win the opposite award among their classmates, but I digress. . .)

 

But that's BY FAR not the majority of medical students. As has been pointed out before, every element of society has its bad apples - med students are human, with all the good and the bad that entails. And I definitely think the good outweighs the bad. . . just look at many of the other med students who post here as moderators. How many come off as arrogant people just looking out for their own self-interest? (Hope I'm not opening us up to attack. . .)

[Guest Toby]

Totally

 

Its not about a low organic chem mark or stumbling through a few questions in an interview.If you have bad marks your toast! if you cant talk/write your toast. We are talking about the people who do make it to the interview stage, they are all the same caliber so they decide by picking the one with more potential to win a grammy and silly @#%$ like that. Dont you get what everyone on this thread has been saying?

 

Sure write a more creative essay. I had a friend who applied to MAC and got an interview on year. The next year he asked students for advice on the essay and made it really more creative and tailored to the school....you guessed it he didnt even get an interview.

 

 

Awesome marks/awards/MCATS/PUBS etc are a given now how do you decide out of these equally talented candidates.........size of your rack comes into play, you might want a boob job like Vanessa, or if your marks are @#%$, ie B-'s, B's dont bother applying

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Not tI highly doubt sexual attraction plays any role in the interviewing process. . . the different classes/years are quite seperated in med school, so rigging the system to only accept sexually attractive people really wouldn't do anything for the 3rd years conducting the interviews anyways - it's unlikely they'd ever have a chance to pick up the people they'd interviewed anyways.

 

At least at UWO, the process basically comes down to what marks your interviewers give you on your interview (once you have the interview). It's similar at many other schools. . . once you get the interview that really is the most important factor. So getting into medicine is really quite simple after all. . . you just have to impress your interviewers. Of course, the key to impressing the interviewers isn't simple at all - every person is impressed by different things, and hence the element of randomness to medical school admissions (I think this applies to both the interviewing process and essay process.)

 

I posted this elsewhere, but I'll post it here again as its relevant to the topic of conversation. I had the interesting standpoint of performing interviews myself a couple of years back when I coordinated "Frosh Week" at my UG school. I was hiring Frosh Leaders, not med students, but it still provided me with an interesting perspective going into my own med school interviews. We interviewed 110 people for 60 spots, so the odds aren't that far off from med school interviews (remember that many schools have to send out almost twice as many invitations as they have spots to cover people accepted to multiple schools.) Anyways, I found that for about 20% of the people I interviewed, it was obvious they'd make great Frosh Leaders and I wrote their names in right away. There was another 20% for whom it was obvious they'd make awful Frosh Leaders ("Why do you want to be a Frosh Leader" . . . "Uh, to pick up Chicks?") For the other 60%, it was definitely NOT obvious whether they'd make good Frosh Leaders or not. . . so my co-coordinator and I talked it over and came up with criteria to decide who else to take.

 

I seriously agonized over those decisions. . . I remember after putting up the list I ended up going for a walk and wondering whether certain people I knew should have been substituted for others. Fortunately, a couple of people backed out so I was able to take a few more people off the waitlist. . . still there were a couple of people who ended up helping out with the week anyways that I figured should have been Frosh Leaders.

 

So I think there is an element of randomness to the process, but there's also an element of truth/worth to the interview process. And the odds really aren't as bad as 80/400. . . Western accepted 189/380 interviews last year (after waitlist acceptances), and I'm sure some/many of those other 191 people got into other schools. I know that's not consolation to the people who don't get in on June 1st, but that element of chance to the process does mean chances are as good next year just as long you're not one of the 20% that's such a jerk that it's obvious you shouldn't be in medicine.

 

That being said, I think it's also important to recognize that there is an aspect of LUCK when you get in and not hold your acceptance of the heads of others who aren't as fortunate. So don't brag during med school orientation week about getting into all of the schools you applied to - it'll impress no one who knows anything about the process. Conversely, realize that if 1,2,3,4,5,6 (or even 7!) out of the 7 schools you applied to rejected you, that quite likely has no bearing on whether you'll be a good doctor. Med school acceptances aren't a measure of self-worth.

 

Good Luck to everyone on June 1st.

[Guest J]

It's unfortunate that this thread is starting to degenerate into stupid comments, stereotyping all med students and doctors in a certain way, and so on. Overall I think this is a good discussion, and we're better off keeping it clean so that it can continue without being locked up by Ian.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Guest James Wong]

Venessa,

if all those you know who are in med school are total pigs, you might not consider going to that school....it'll make a difference over 4 years.

 

if these people all go to different schools, it may be the people you may have associated your self with in the past.

 

I don't know if it's because the people I hang around are all wonderful people, but I've rarely, if ever, met a student in med school who I thought never deserved to be there. But I do KNOW that some people who probably shouldn't DO get it (so please don't jump all over me for having said that!)

[Guest PeterHill0501]

UWOMED2005,

 

I'm not sure if you saw the untoward comments someone had posted to this group about you...I believe Ian removed them rather quickly...and correctly so...

 

I just wanted to let you know that my experiences interacting with you in this forum have been nothing less than fun, thought-provoking and professional. I personally chalk these personal attacks up to lack of maturity, stress and inappropriate behaviour.

 

Thanks for your replies to my posts and for your valuable contribution to this forum.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Personal attack, eh. Didn't see it but I'm not surprised. . . kind of expected it, actually - the wording of my last post kind of opened me up for it.

 

Thanks for your support though, Peter. You've demonstrated yourself to be an upstanding individual as well with your posts here.

[Guest Jase133]

UWOMED and Peter,

 

I respect the postings from both of you. In fact, with all the bitterness and disrespect which is in this thread, it's essential that there are advocates for the other side. However, I don't think that "patting ourselves in the back" is really what this thread needs. I think a lot of the resentment a lot of applicant feels toward -SOME- med students is their smugness of how righteous and how much more they are worth, when, at the same time, fellow applicants (albeit, perhaps rejected ones) see these med students for what they really are: asses, morons, and brats who got lucky.

 

As an applicant, I've gotten my fair share of this negative attitude from medical students. I have indeed been put down many times. (In fact, I will extend so far as to say that I have an idea that one or two particular persons who have posted on these boards with "righteous" comments as medical students have insulted me in real life and have called me names like "stupid f***" - don't ask me how I know. If you don't believe, then let it be.)

 

I think the result of these experiences is that I will work harder. In the end, there's an applicant population with people who are asses and people who are truly good (not perfect, but whose intentions are good and have a suitable personality for the medical profession). It's up to people who are grounded, intellectually and socially adept, and respectful for others who must compete with the "asses" for medical school spots - So we must try harder.

 

Just my thoughts. Anyone else?

[Guest PeterHill0501]

You're very welcome.

[Guest PeterHill0501]

Jase133,

 

A great post with some very wise advise.

[Guest medwant2b]

tommygirl:

 

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> I was wondering if anyone could give me CONCRETE as to why they were turned down from the faculty-- ie. interview was poor, upgrade O chem, write the auto-bio more creatively etc etc. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

 

I don't think the question can be answered definitively because different schools and different interviewers look for different things.

 

That said, there are some common things that aren't CONCRETE and the adcoms look for... especially in the interview. If you think about it a bit those things will come to you. I could list the things I've come up with in thinking about the post, but I don't think that would help any one here.

 

Much discussion has focused on the interview.

I'd like to put in my $0.02 worth on this:

I agree there is some element of luck involved. That said, I don't think the process is random. I did a relatively conservative back-of-envelope statistical calculation for Ontario based on numbers I have for U of T. U of T made more offers last year than it ought to have if the process were purely by chance. This suggests people are getting multiple offers more often than chance would suggest and there is a bias in the selection toward certain candidates. I, personally, would like to believe the bias in selection means those that would make better physicians are picked...

 

Cheers! medwant2b

[Guest leather cheerio]

Several people are misconstruing my original response. Remember, the interview is only a component of the final ranking (albeit a significant one). All I was trying to point out is that interviews are based on first impressions. Revamping your essay or helping antelopes breastfeed their offspring in the Serengeti because you like “to help everybody” the following year will still not improve your interview. I remember one community member telling me “that kid just doesn’t look like doctor material,” as if there is a way a doctor is supposed to look like. There’s a reason why Mac accepts more women year after year. Their Mac interview process is quite arduous and women are simply more natural talkers (of course, not all). As a guy, I don’t like to talk too much. I can put on a show for 30-45 minutes, at the most. Then, I get visibly angry as a vein starts popping from my left temple and I turn red (so I’ve been told). During the group interview at Mac, I was ready to kill someone after putting up with all the BS flying around the room. I’m sure it showed, and that’s probably why I got rejected from Mac (among other reasons). It’s funny how Mac gets all defensive when most of their class dives into family practice since a lot of the grads want to have babies etc (surprise, surprise). Whatever. Believe it or not, idiosyncrasies in people’s behavior still come into play during residency interviews as well. One of the residents (I won’t say where) put in a bad word for a certain person because he found her voice annoying. Is this a silly reason? You bet. But it happened. He didn’t want to put up with her during his final year of residency. Perhaps Peter Hill can back me up and shed some more light on how things like this happen all the time in the real world. I hope that Vanessa was only kidding when she wants to move up do a DD (it’s a bit too much...if you get a bunch of females interviewing you, they’ll catch on and your plan will backfire). But I like the way you think…

 

P.S. Vanessa, just out of curiosity, how big are you (for research and statistical purposes)? I’m thinking of writing a single-blind paper on how breast size is positively correlated with admission. If you applied this year, you could serve as the control group. After this summer, you can be the experimental group.

[Guest Da Birdie]

LOLOLOLOL DD

[Guest Vanessa]

I'm a double B, can pass for C on cold days

 

I disagree and think the new bust would work great at Mac interviews, after all lesbians love a shapely body

 

I wonder how many people would be in med school if it were not for the compensation actually nowadays its the 'perceived' compensation. I bet you would see about 90-95% of med school classes run and claw over each other to get through the exit gates if salaries were in the 50-80,000 range.

 

Greed Greed Greed I tell you. They could give a @#%$ about the patients, the only abnormal growth they are concerned with is the buldge in their back pockets

 

'oh yes adcomms i am a teriffic person cant you see how much volunteering I have done in my last year, are you convinced yet, am i in yet? I promise I will make the world a better a place, do you buy my @#%$ or shall I wrap better in more lies next year ?'

 

Sick folk I tell u

[Guest Anon]

Venessa? Or is it Vanessa?What's the story? We all know you are a man or else you would realize that there is no double b.........

Go away.

[Guest A Chick]

Yeah, ditto that remark. Double B? C on COLD days? What does that mean, anyways?

[Guest A Boy]

How big are your tits A Chick. Ill be interviewing next year and I just want a heads up on what's or who rather is coming throught the door.

 

A Boy

[Guest A Boy]

I think they have double B's in the states, they do in Europe im pretty sure, so maybe we have a foreign chick on our turf. That was probably a joke: Double B to C. You see ladies, on cold days the mammaries have a tendancy to swell, and the nipples become more erect thus creating a temporary increase in breast size.

 

 

God I hope I get that gyno residency

 

A Boy

[Guest Da Birdie]

wow how do u know all these....sciences behind...physiological responses?

 

some advanced physiology elective/special interest project u took?!

[Guest A Boy]

The knowledge came from "hands on" experience during the cold months of winter and the breezy months in the summer

 

A boy

[Guest Andrea Lufkin]

Jase I was wondering what the circumstances were that led to those med students insulting you in such an obnoxious manner. I too had a similar encounter involving a few female med students in a particular school. What did you do about it and how did you detemine that they may be some of the med students who post here.

 

Jase all i can say is better luck next year, hopefully the tides will turn and some people who REALLY deserve to go will get in !

 

Andrea Luftkin

[Guest PeterHill0501]

Leather...unfortunately, this type of thing does seem to happen all the time...it's quite depressing to think that most of the male species hasn't evolved that much over the last hundred thousand years or so.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Amazing how much 'A boy' sounds like Venessa/Vanessa. . .

 

Back to Jase133's comment. . . the Med students you met - did you meet them just once, or did you know them better than that? I ask only because sometimes first impressions aren't accurate - something could have been misinterpreted or someone might have had a bad day. Just a thought - I'd like to reiterate that I have seen colleagues get high on themselves for getting into medicine. . . but those people do not make up the bulk of the class.