Guest sunshinesmiles222002 Posted May 13, 2002 Report Share Posted May 13, 2002 Just out of curiosity, if I have attended more than one post-secondary education, and I sent the transcript from the most recent institution attended, do schools actually check if I had attended any schools prior? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest not rex morgan Posted May 13, 2002 Report Share Posted May 13, 2002 They could. Do you want to risk it? Could you sleep at night? Think you can fumble your way around it in your interviews, trying to explain those two lost years? Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted May 13, 2002 Report Share Posted May 13, 2002 Who knows? You'd be taking a big gamble if you did this. Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tommygirl Posted May 13, 2002 Report Share Posted May 13, 2002 They have your social insurance number-- it's an easy trace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Glenn Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 If you do this and manage to get into medical school, I guarantee you that it will be years before a day goes by that you won't worry about being caught. Think about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missing Manitoba Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 Applications require that you include your entire post-secondary (and in many cases, secondary) academic history. They also request transcripts from ALL post-secondary institutions attended. If the schools discovered an omission/any false information, you could be booted from your program -- as clearly stated in the applications. (And, on any subsequent application, you would have to check "yes" to the "have you ever been required to withdraw..." question.) In addition to being ethically questionable, at best, omitting a portion of your academic history could be extremely detrimental to you in the future. As to whether the med schools actually check your academic background, I don't know; however, even if they don't, anyone else who knows/finds out -- such as past or future classmates -- could easily tip them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterHill0501 Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 Laura Secord, I think what the moderators may be reacting to is that you, if my memory serves me correctly, were encouraging and applauding unethical behaviour. As I mentioned before in other posts, I truly hope that people who lie in any part of their interview or application get found out and banned from ever applying to any medical school again. If there's one thing I depend on from a physician...it's honesty...period...no "it's just a little white lie"...or "everybody lies to a certain extent"...no candidates who lie should take the place of someone else who is truthful...point finale. Oh, and by the way, I fully support the moderators actions of deleting messages or portions of messages like the one you posted...I personally found it offensive and distasteful. This is a moderated forum...I've never seen any moderator in this forum delete messages because the opinions expressed differ from their opinions...what I've seen over the past year or so is moderation of inappropriate posts...which is entirely appropriate. If you don't like auditing of this kind then a moderated forum isn't likely the right place for you. Just be thankful all posts aren't reviewed prior to posting...that would be a pain and detrimental to timely communication, not to mention a huge hassle for the moderators. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missing Manitoba Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 I'll second what PeterHill said. The purpose of this messageboard is to provide information/assistance to premeds. Advising one such premed to behave in a totally unethical, dishonest manner is in itself unethical and very much in opposition to the spirit of the board. Honesty and willingness to admit our weaknesses are crucial traits in physicians -- the wellbeing of our patients is dependent on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Laura Secord Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 Keep it up Pete! With acceptance letters starting in about a month or so there's no telling who could be perusing these forums, right? Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterHill0501 Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 Laura, If you knew me you would realize that I always speak MY mind...not what others would like to hear me say or what people expect is 'fashionable' to say. My fate was sealed, one way or another, after the interview...I'm afraid I don't depend on the possibility that adcoms actually care or have time to check these boards. I'm afraid I just detest cheating, lying, etc...chalk it up to being on the receiving end a few times. I too believe in free speech...it's important for people to see what exists out there...but the type of free speech you exercised in your post was misaligned with the purpose of this site...that is why I support the moderator's actions wholeheartedly...this is a moderated forum...it will be moderated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beaver Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 Dont do it, its wrong and you can be caught easily. How will you explain the years you were at the school you didn't disclose? What if there is student loans from the other schools? When you applied to the second university you attended, you must have had to disclose the previous university you attended on their application. Therefore your new school will put on the top of their transcript: transfered from school x with x number of credits In the end, do you really want to be paranoid for the rest of your life. Its not a good existence and you will feel lousy about yourself which may prevent you from succeeding in med school IF you ever did somehow amazingly slip by. Don't do it, its not worth it. Remember most med schools drop your worst year or look at your best year or best two years anyway so they give applicants a chance to redeem themselves, there's no point in trying to lie for something the admission's process has made accomodations for Laura Secord I think you should buzz off :evil , you have no clue how wrong or easily this is to trace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Akane200 Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 Don't do it. You won't get away with it. They just might check. I know of a real case where a person went to med school and didn't disclose that he had attended another post secondary institution before. He was caught in fourth year, and you know what? He was kicked out of med school for that. Failure to disclose is not very different from lying, and is certainly misrepresenting yourself. It shows so much about your character if you do choose such deplorable means to get into med school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest browsing Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 it's not hard to see how this probably happens. I think I wrote a post before stating my observation that some students finish 1st year with a bad mark and reapply elsewhere as a 1st year student. I'll assume that they didn't get loans or scholarships etc, and lied to say they took a year off (some people do take a year off to see the world). Yes, probably SIN check will reveal this lie. It is unknown whether schools will do this for every applicant. If you look around this forum you may have already seen how stressed out some people are about getting into meds. They'll do anything, and since the world isn't perfect some may get into medicine. They will have to live with it for the rest of their lives, but on the other hand they are probably also glad that they got into their dream profession and don't regret having done a bad thing. Who knows. PeterHill, I like your idea about dishonest people not deserving to get into positions of trust. With the scandals in politics, clergy, and even medicine, how should legislations be changed to do this? Are you optimistic that human nature tends toward the good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sunshinesmiles222002 Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 It was great to see so many honest opinions! Thanks for all your input. The thing about it was, I had done my first degree a long time ago, so, I thought I'd just send my most recent transcript from my second degree. My first degree average is still quite competitive, and I pursued a completely different degree after, and that's quite competitive too. So, it wasn't like I was trying to hide it or anything. I actually contacted the school, and it's all good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterHill0501 Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 browsing, Thanks for the reply. I understand that people are stressed out, anxious and focused on gaining entry to their "dream profession", however, it, in my opinion, doesn't justify lying, cheating or misrepresentation. There are many things I'd love to achieve but perhaps don't have the background, skill or achievements required to do them...would I lie to get what I want...Absolutely not! Screening criteria exist for a reason...by lying I could be making the worst mistake of my life, not only for myself, but also for those who depend on me being adequately prepared and being the best at what I'm supposed to be doing. With respect to your statement: <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> PeterHill, I like your idea about dishonest people not deserving to get into positions of trust. With the scandals in politics, clergy, and even medicine, how should legislations be changed to do this? Are you optimistic that human nature tends toward the good? <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> I am completely disgusted with politicians who lie, clergy who abuse children, and doctors who are not truthful. People in these types of roles are depended upon for many things...especially for being honest, perhaps above all else. In fact, it's interesting, as an example, when I vote...I don't vote for who I want, but rather, I either exercise my priveledge to vote by scratching my ballot or I vote to prevent the worst liar from getting into power. I think society as a whole is far too lenient with dishonest people. Through formal study of the human psychological condition and ample life experiences, I firmly believe that both good and evil are part of every being human. Am I optimistic that human nature tends toward the good? Yes...I like to believe that and I try to always give people the benefit of the doubt, however, life experiences have suggested that it may not be true. How can we handle it? That's a great question! I think zero tolerance helps...but it surely doesn't compensate for the charismatic sociopaths who are able to hold it together long enough to fool people, get into a position of trust or power only to damage once again. One potential means of weeding out those types of people from medicine might be to make people work for the adcoms for a year or more prior to being eligible to apply to med school. I believe the slice of one's life obtained through reference letters, an autobiographical sketch, a crafted essay and a 40 minute interview are not sufficient to discover who somebody really is at the core...but that's only a personal opinion because obviously the bulk of physicians who graduate and practice seem to be excellent, or at least, adequate. I guess what somewhat "burns my butt" is that people who don't deserve to be in a position of trust are getting there and are taking opportunity away from others who are more qualified and better suited for those opportunities. Thanks again for your reply...it's important to have these discussions in these types of public forums. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missing Manitoba Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 Hi Sunshinesmiles, Good luck with your application. I'm sorry about jumping to conclusions about your motivations. :\ Unfortunately, as you can see if Laura Secord's post is still up, there are some who view the med school application process as a win-at-all-costs competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ItsmeMelissa Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 I for one would really rather forego the whole med school experience if it meant studying and working with people that lie, cheat, and degrade their way in to the profession. It is disappointing that sunshinesmiles was assumed to be of questionable character based on his/her post. I really think that it is a product of the not-so-helpful posts that occasionally appear on this forum. Sometimes there are some really hostile posts on this and other similar boards, and it makes me feel a little disenchanted. This is after all a *helping* profession we are all attempting to get in to! Thanks to The Beaver, Kirsteen, UWOMEDS2005, Peterhill and especially Ian (an all those other welcoming, tactful and intelligent posters) for leading me to the conclusion that I can confidently pursue medicine with the assurance that most of my colleagues will be generous and kind people. It really helps to be reminded that not all med school students or want2bs are of the angry and hostile type that show up here..... Melissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rushslowly Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 I've been checking this board off and on and have found it very useful. One of the things I like is the variety of opinion out there. Because I value them. In an ideal world, it's nice to think most people are capable of gleaning what they want, or maybe what's right from these messages and charting a course to match their goals. It's fair to say IN medicine as in all areas, there are all types of people you may encounter and even a few whose honesty & ethics dangle about the neck like their stethescope - BUT who didn't lie on their application. Someone once said "medicine is a moral enterprise". This may sound corny, but what makes me feel great is if at the end of the day I know I've tried my best and not just mouthed platitudes. In a message, however, or on paper even - it's hard for your character to stand on it's own especially if you've screwed up and are trying to gain acceptance into medical school. I know there are oodles of scenarios that can be thrown out there and arguments for "what makes a good physician" or the kind of person I would want to look up my bum or down my throat - but really - it would have to be someone who quite simply respects what they are doing and others and acts that way, too. If they lie/d on their application, I would think this person felt pressured to impress. This isn't my idea of deplorable. It all comes back to "just be yourself" - but officially adding liar to your CV? Your choice - it's a double failure if you are caught. In the long run, you'll gain a greater sense of personal satisifaction if you don't. Now I have a sunset to ride off into! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Laura Secord Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 It's too bad that my response was once again deleted. I was the ONLY one that did not jump to a conclusion. You asked a simple question, "Do they check?" I merely said that I doubt they did. Some of the lifers on this forum like Peter Hill and the rest of his cronies took great offense to this and went into a diatribe about ethics etc. I'm sure these were useless responses, since any idiot knows that misrepresentations are unethical. If I remember correctly, you weren't asking about whether it was ethical or not. I wasn't about to insult your intelligence on that point. Someone else stated that they could do a SIN check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Laura Secord Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 It's too bad that my response was once again deleted. I was the ONLY one that did not jump to a conclusion. You asked a simple question, "Do they check?" I merely said that I doubt they did. Some of the lifers on this forum like Peter Hill and the rest of his cronies took great offense to this and went into a diatribe about ethics etc. I'm sure these were useless responses, since any idiot knows that misrepresentations are unethical. If I remember correctly, you weren't asking about whether it was ethical or not. I wasn't about to insult your Someone else stated that they could do a SIN check; a point well taken. So there you have it: it's doubtful that they will check up on you, but if they did, you could easily be caught. If you want me to lecture you on ethics then just ask, otherwise I'll save my typing energy (unlike Peter Hill). Peter, if you want to go off topic in the future and tell everyone about your perspective on ethics etc., perhaps you can start a new thread or create a website and give us a link for those who are interested. Try to just answer the question next time. I hope, for your own sake, that you answered the questions on your applications and didn't go off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterHill0501 Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 Laura... Cronies? Now them's fightin' words: <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> crone Pronunciation Key (krn) n. An ugly, withered old woman; a hag. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Middle English, from Old North French carogne, carrion, cantankerous woman, from Vulgar Latin *carnia, carrion, from Latin car, carn-, flesh. See sker-1 in Indo-European Roots.] Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- crone \Crone\ (kr?n), n. [OD. kronie, karonie, an old sheep, OF. carogne, F. charogne, carrion (also F. carogne illnatured woman.). See Carrion, and Crony.] 1. An old ewe. [Obs.] --Tusser. 2. An old woman; -- usually in contempt. But still the crone was constant to her note. --Dryden. 3. An old man; especially, a man who talks and acts like an old woman. [R.] The old crone [a negro man] lived in a hovel, . . . which his master had given him. --W. Irving. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> I may be 39 but, I can assure you, I nor anybody else in this forum resembles a crone! It wasn't that you said they'd be unlikely to get caught which raised controversy...what was controversial and unethical was your response which suggested (and I can't quote exactly, unfortunately) that you enjoyed the "devious" behaviour and further suggested that the person would "fit right in" to the medical community. It is these statements which were distasteful, at best. By the way...I have endless energy to type...I have the skill...which has been honestly earned... :b Oh, and would you publish your real name as I have done...or would you be afraid to stand behind your morals? If you'd like to go off-topic and off-line please feel free to e-mail me at peter.hill4@sympatico.ca Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shkelo Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 BURN!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beaver Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 Hey Ian cant you block this Secord character, I like chocolates and all but something tells me this isn't the real Laura Secord......call it a hunch I think advising candidates to follow some dangerous, perhaps career ruining paths isn't going to help any prospective applicants. later the beav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ikus Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 Good for you Laura. I was not able to see any of your original comments so I don't know if they were offensive. However, it seems people on this site are trying too hard to be perfect and make a good impression. I would prefer a doctor who is genuine and true to himself. It sounds like Laura was giving her opinion...which I thought was the idea of this forum. Endless banter about morality is silly, we all know what is right and wrong. Annonymity is an advantage of a discussion forum so that people speak their minds... I suppose this is not the opinion of someone who feels compelled to prove to others how moral they are. Just an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterHill0501 Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 (This message was left blank) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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