Hello advice needed......Peter are you out there?

[Guest JM]

Hey Peter

 

 

Here's my story:

I applied to Mac this year for Med school, but if not accepted then I would like to work this year and do some science courses at night to write the MCAT next year. I just wanted to know how to go about getting into a job with the govt or other firms that could use my background. I will be graduating (June) with a degree double major in (Commerce and Finance) and Psychology from UofT. What kinds of areas should I look into in your expert opinion? Through the coursework I have had a healthy dose of accounting, finance, marketing, stats, economics and from the Psych side lots of Cognitive, Perception and Stats as well.

 

I was wondering if you could suggest jobs/careers that could use both of my areas of study. Is it really hard to get a job with the govt?

 

Thanks Peter, you seem to know everything about everything and your thoughts about this are really valued.

 

Best of luck to you

JM

[Guest PeterHill0501]

JM...I don't blush easily...but you've done it...I know nothing more than anyone else who has survived 39 years and has had a career for 12 or so years of those 39 years...

 

To help guide you, if I possibly can, I need some more information about you...if you don't feel comfortable posting it here...click on my login name and e-mail me privately.

 

Questions that would help me provide you with any possible direction I can provide you with:

 

Do you have any experience with primary quantitative, qualitatitive, experimental behavioural research? What city do you live in? What are or aren't you willing to do? What are your financial needs in terms of absolute minimum dollars/month in your pocket? What are you interested in? What do you excel at? What work experience (not necessarily necessary but helpful) do you have? Are you french/english bilingual?

 

Any background would be helpful. I would be more than happy to help in any way I can.

 

Peter

[Guest AniyaSG]

I know I wasn't asked, but I'll throw my piece about federal government employment in anyhow

 

If you want to work for the government, it is very easy for them to hire people for up to 6months as 'casuals'. You just have to talk to the right people. These positions often are obtained through word of mouth, at least in the scientific side of things, so start working your connections! I doubt there would be that much difference in the other fields. For longer contracts (term work), check out the online listings and sign up for updates, often jobs are only posted for 1-3 days. They also can take a long time to get through the hiring process so apply often and apply early.

 

As far as psych jobs go, Peter is the expert on that topic...

 

Good Luck!

[Guest PeterHill0501]

I agree with AniyaSG,

 

Actually, the "law" for casual employment actually allows for a person to be hired within any one department (e.g., Statistics Canada as a whole being a Department) for no longer than 125 working days. In my case, if my casual contract ran out prior to obtaining a 'permanent' or 'term' position I could no longer have worked for Stats Canada...I would have had to look for another casual position in a totally different area of the government.

 

You can find all kinds of jobs at the following web site:

 

jobs.gc.ca/

 

Unfortunately, it's not quite as easy to land these, or any other casual positions (e.g., the one's by word of mouth) as it might sound. First, many of the positions require you to be bilingual to varying degrees, depending on the area and level of the position. My position, since I'm managing people, requires me to have a CBC profile, which means...fluent in spoken french (ie., C level), strong in writing skills (i.e., and fluent in reading french (i.e., C level). Most jobs posted on the web site and most of the casual contracts in the scientific areas require at least a BBB profile...if you're interested in the 'operational definition' of this it is available at the above web site.

 

Another unfortunate thing for 'outsiders' is that you can only apply to casual positions unless the poster indicates the jobs are open to the public (the web site above is for the general public). Typically you start off as a casual employee. When you're a casual you can compete for a 'term' position...this is a position which is still temporary (typically terms are for 1 year) but they can be renewed indefinitely. Being a term employee affords you a few advantages...first, you get benefits...second, you can compete for permanent positions within any area of the government.

 

An now for the 'competions'...if you thought your interview was tough for medicine...just wait until you compete for a permanent position within the goverment...you'd think you were being selected to perform brain surgery on someone the next day...first of all, like the med school interview...you write essentially an autobiographical sketch showing how your experience etc., matches the criteria for the position...a board of experts reviews all the applications and trims down the list to, typically, several hundred applicants (my position was posted for 2 days on the net and there were more than 400 applicants). If too many people apply then they implement a board exam...it's a written exam which has questions derived by the board of experts in your area...you have to study for these exams...they provide stacks of info for studying...if you pass the board exam then you are granted an interview...the interview is panel style...typically between 4and 6 people...and they fire many very technical and non-technical questions at you, of course, related in some way to the position you're seeking...here are a few questions from my interview...I applied (and won) a term position as a quantative research manager:

 

You've just completed a national study looking at X...upon analysis of the data, your methodologist informs you that your study has many questions which yielded coefficients of variation in the 20 to 25% range...how would you handle this issue with your client (in this case the supposed client was Health Canada). Second, what recommendations would you make with respect to your study design, sampling design and instrument design to reduce the coefficient of variation to 16.5% or lower for the next cycle of the study?

 

My stats, research design skills are quite strong and seasoned (I TA'd undergraduate and graduate univariate and multivariate stats as well as methods) and I found this quite challenging to answer on the fly...and this was by far one of the easier questions...

 

The whole competitive process typically takes about 6-12 months from interview to decision...then people can contest the decision (i.e., if they don't win the competition)...this review can delay the decision for another 6-12 months...

 

All in all...the govt isn't really that easy to get into...as you can tell...it's been a significant 'battle' to break in from the private sector.

 

I better stop writing now or i'm going to use up all the bandwidth this forum has!

 

Peter

[Guest AniyaSG]

A few more details (in case anyone is really interested in the nitty-gritty of working for The Man :b )

 

I am currently working as a casual. The job kinda fell into my lap, I told some people I was looking for a job after my Masters and hooked up with a friend of a friend who happened to be looking for someone. I ended up submitting my thesis on a Friday and beginning work the following Monday. As Peter stated I have a max of 125 days of work in any one department. I then need to switch to another department. If I do work more than 125 days in the government as a casual (would need to be in 2 depts.) I can then apply for internal positions. Before then I can't apply for any internal positions (crazy technicalities).

 

Of course, as in any system, there are loopholes. If they want you enough they can hire you, no matter where you come from. They just have to know how, or so I've been told.

 

The money is good though, there is no way I would earn what I do working at a University... helps me save up for big expenses in the future