UBC medicine has a bit of a spotlight on it right now.

[notmeadoc]

http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/story+makes+wary+medical+school+policies/6305665/story.html

 

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/medical+students+should+allowed+return/6318649/story.html

 

There is definitely some interesting dialogue happening right now in social media. I wonder if any of it will lead to any change?

[UBCStudent128]

http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/story+makes+wary+medical+school+policies/6305665/story.html

 

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/medical+students+should+allowed+return/6318649/story.html

 

There is definitely some interesting dialogue happening right now in social media. I wonder if any of it will lead to any change?

 

For the first article, the mom has got to be kidding.

Some people will obviously slip through and we all know US medical school admissions are easier in comparison to Canadian medical schools...

 

He could have bombed the UBC interview and aced the Columbia's.

 

There are too many variables. Just because he got accepted to Columbia and became a neurosurgeon doesn't mean he should've been accepted to UBC and that their admissions was unfair.

I'm sure many UBC graduates who became a neurosurgeon or w/e would have been rejected by other medical students..

 

EDIT: The truth is there is far more talented/capable students than allowed seats at UBC. I think the dean made it clear that there were far more capable candidates than the seats available. So it i inevitable that some qualified students get rejected.

[asasas]

Sounds like a rich snooby lady didnt get what she wanted and now shes complaining. But in her tirade of BS there is a grain of truth, UBC is kind of unfair in the selection process.

[UBCStudent128]

Sounds like a rich snooby lady didnt get what she wanted and now shes complaining. But in her tirade of BS there is a grain of truth, UBC is kind of unfair in the selection process.

 

I still don't understand what the complaint is towards UBC Medicine. How are they exactly unfair?

I mean every admission process can be seen as "unfair". I'd like to know how UBC in particular deserves so much spotlight as being 'unfair' ?

[Wachaa]

Lol now how would Canadian medical graduates feel if the 3000 or whatever the number of overseas students was... scooped up Canadian residency spots? Then we have the problem of Canadian medical grads left unmatched or not happy with their match. Furtherore, then it would be so tempting for people to just apply to any random medical school with low admission requirements since all they'd have to do is Pass, graduate, and get equal opportunity to match back to Canada.

[asasas]

I still don't understand what the complaint is towards UBC Medicine. How are they exactly unfair?

I mean every admission process can be seen as "unfair". I'd like to know how UBC in particular deserves so much spotlight as being 'unfair' ?

 

if you think a student who's entirely on their own can compete with me then you're out of your mind. My application blows them out of the water. UBC will barely take that into consideration. Its a fact that you need very good financial backing to get into UBC.

[UBCStudent128]

if you think a student who's entirely on their own can compete with me then you're out of your mind. My application blows them out of the water. UBC will barely take that into consideration. Its a fact that you need very good financial backing to get into UBC.

 

Can you clarify your post ?

Your application will blow them out of water? How so. What is your application ?

UBC will barely take that into consideration? How do you know this?

Plus with attitude like yours "no student can't entirely compete with me" I don't think you are in fact a good candidate for UBC med.

 

If you're going to make an argument at least make it coherent...

Are you a medical student at UBC?

 

And for your last sentence, I hope you're joking. Please do not make claims like that when you're clearly misinformed.

I PERSONALLY know dozens of UBC medical students. Some of them are close family friends of mine. I know at least 3 that could not afford UBC medicine without loan despite the fact UBC Med isn't even that expensive. I know one girl who had student loan all throughout her undergrad b/c of family issues that I'm not going to post here.

 

Saying you NEED financial backing to get into UBC med is false and please provide proof if you'll make such claims.

 

 

Also how could you even state your family's financial backing on your application? Last time I checked there isn't a way for me to make it clear that my family is rich.

[Larrivee]

yeah... pretty sure the majority of the students could not afford to go w/o a LOC. They don't ask about financial information on the application either... so how could they possibly have a clue about an applicant's financial situation?

 

Also, one of the articles says that applying to UBC costs $1000 a pop... they might want to double check their numbers if they are trying to be taken seriously. I think these articles are pretty short sighted. The public keeps screaming that we need to up the medical school spots and let IMGs practice because we have such a shortage of doctors... yet there are many doctors doing fellowship upon fellowship just to try to land a job. Its more a problem of doctor distribution than anything.

[Dr.Henderson]

yeah... pretty sure the majority of the students could not afford to go w/o a LOC. They don't ask about financial information on the application either... so how could they possibly have a clue about an applicant's financial situation?

 

Also, one of the articles says that applying to UBC costs $1000 a pop... they might want to double check their numbers if they are trying to be taken seriously. I think these articles are pretty short sighted. The public keeps screaming that we need to up the medical school spots and let IMGs practice because we have such a shortage of doctors... yet there are many doctors doing fellowship upon fellowship just to try to land a job. Its more a problem of doctor distribution than anything.

 

That's because the majority of the public aren't interacting with specialists on a regular basis and those are the docs doing fellowships because they can't find a job. There is a severe shortage of family docs, especially in rural areas. Even in urban centers it can be difficult to find a family doc. That's the reality that the public faces and the reason for their frustration.

 

The geographic distribution of doctors is a major issue in this province as anyone living in a small/rural/remote community (this guy included) can attest to. The satellite campuses of UBC do little to address this issue as there certainly isn't a shortage of physicians in Victoria or Kelowna, and Prince George has yet to have a class with even half the students from Northern B.C. to my knowledge (rural suitability isn't used until after a spot has been granted).

 

The issue isn't class size, its specialty and geographic distribution as Larrivee states. The only way you address those issues are by making changes in admissions and changes in CaRMS. You could just let the job market dictate what people go into, but the geographic issue needs to be addressed- financial incentives aren't working. Why would someone from Vancouver work in Burns Lake for $400k/yr when they could make $300k/yr and live in the city close to their family?

[RiceWine]

as someone who interviewed at ubc too many times, i think the moral of the story is if you really want to practice medicine in the future and you are from b.c, apply broadly!

[asasas]

Can you clarify your post ?

Your application will blow them out of water? How so. What is your application ?

UBC will barely take that into consideration? How do you know this?

Plus with attitude like yours "no student can't entirely compete with me" I don't think you are in fact a good candidate for UBC med.

 

If you're going to make an argument at least make it coherent...

Are you a medical student at UBC?

 

And for your last sentence, I hope you're joking. Please do not make claims like that when you're clearly misinformed.

I PERSONALLY know dozens of UBC medical students. Some of them are close family friends of mine. I know at least 3 that could not afford UBC medicine without loan despite the fact UBC Med isn't even that expensive. I know one girl who had student loan all throughout her undergrad b/c of family issues that I'm not going to post here.

 

Saying you NEED financial backing to get into UBC med is false and please provide proof if you'll make such claims.

 

 

Also how could you even state your family's financial backing on your application? Last time I checked there isn't a way for me to make it clear that my family is rich.

 

 

 

You're an idiot. It's so clear that you and your friends have no idea how hard it is for people who are truly independent to get into med school. You think that people living on their own and going to school will have the time to volunteer as many hours as us? You think they can afford to have as much volunteering diversity as us? The answer is no if you're unable to reason through that.

[UBCStudent128]

You're an idiot. It's so clear that you and your friends have no idea how hard it is for people who are truly independent to get into med school. You think that people living on their own and going to school will have the time to volunteer as many hours as us? You think they can afford to have as much volunteering diversity as us? The answer is no if you're unable to reason through that.

 

With attitudes like yours it's quite obvious why you weren't accepted. You think "no other applicants can compare to me" yet you say things like that pretty funny.

 

That's why work experience counts? Obviously you can't volunteer as much if you have to work. And that is why they count work experience.

And again I will repeat, don't say things when you clearly are misinformed or ignorant about. My best friend is independent. He's taking student loans out and is volunteering/working. He doesn't work full-time but he is getting non financial backing from his family. He has to pay it all by himself. Books/food/tuition/etc. He's not complaining.

 

And frankly I am taking student loans as well.

I saved up enough money during highschool to pay for my meals/housing. I worked since I was 14 and haven't stopped yet. So please take your whiny ass somewhere else if you think you are the only one having a "tough road" there are tons of people who have it tough, I consider myself to be lucky

 

Again I ask you, how is UBC SO unfair?

You think your parents not supporting you financially is UBC's fault?

[Lunasly]

You're an idiot. It's so clear that you and your friends have no idea how hard it is for people who are truly independent to get into med school. You think that people living on their own and going to school will have the time to volunteer as many hours as us? You think they can afford to have as much volunteering diversity as us? The answer is no if you're unable to reason through that.

 

I don't quite understand where you are getting your information from...

 

I have to take full student loans out because my family is supported by one income. I have also worked full-time (my fathers company) since the age of 15 WITHOUT pay because my father has some health issues and can't do it on his own. Do I have time to volunteer/study as much as the individual who doesn't have to work full time? Of course not.

 

What I am certain of is that UBC does take work experience into consideration and they understand people have to work to support themselves. I feel certain that when I apply next year, UBC will look at my application and understand my situation given the circumstances and that I won't be disadvantaged compared to other applicants.

 

The most important thing, though, is not to complain. People have it a lot worse – both in this country and others.

[21staminoacid]

I don't quite understand where you are getting your information from...

 

I have to take full student loans out because my family is supported by one income. I have also worked full-time (my fathers company) since the age of 15 WITHOUT pay because my father has some health issues and can't do it on his own. Do I have time to volunteer/study as much as the individual who doesn't have to work full time? Of course not.

 

What I am certain of is that UBC does take work experience into consideration and they understand people have to work to support themselves. I feel certain that when I apply next year, UBC will look at my application and understand my situation given the circumstances and that I won't be disadvantaged compared to other applicants.

 

The most important thing, though, is not to complain. People have it a lot worse – both in this country and others.

 

I'm pretty sure asasas is referring who are fully independent, that is people who pays for rent, insurance, food, ect all on their own. Doesn't seem like you're doing all of that. Also, you haven't applied yet so how are you so sure they will really take that into consideration? Don't be naive, they won't care.

[bosco]

I have to chime in here being a student that lives on their own and is paying their own way....and is actually in 1st year med at UBC. I worked mostly full-time through undergrad and paid my own way with the help of a few loans. Went to grad school and paid my own way with scholarships. I now have a LOC for med that I pay tuition with and live on. Throughout it all I have paid rent, kept up a household, and managed to volunteer. I did not volunteer as much as my colleagues, but I made significant contributions in the things I was interested in with roles requiring a lot of responsibility (organizing events, teaching in the community etc.). As long as you are smart with where you volunteer, you can do it for less hours and be just as competitive. The schooling I did before med ended up taking longer than my colleagues given that had to fit it around work, but that was definitely taken into consideration when I applied to med. My family is not wealthy and I have had zero monetary support from anyone else along the way (other than through loans which I am solely responsible for when it is all said and done). I put this out there to hopefully inspire those who are doing it on their own and to let the haters know that UBC does not necessarily discriminate against people who live on their own or do not have wealthy parents. You may have to put in a bit more sweat along the way, but it is possible and worth every bit of effort you put into it.

[aquadon]

I have to chime in here being a student that lives on their own and is paying their own way....and is actually in 1st year med at UBC. I worked mostly full-time through undergrad and paid my own way with the help of a few loans. Went to grad school and paid my own way with scholarships. I now have a LOC for med that I pay tuition with and live on. Throughout it all I have paid rent, kept up a household, and managed to volunteer. I did not volunteer as much as my colleagues, but I made significant contributions in the things I was interested in with roles requiring a lot of responsibility (organizing events, teaching in the community etc.). As long as you are smart with where you volunteer, you can do it for less hours and be just as competitive. The schooling I did before med ended up taking longer than my colleagues given that had to fit it around work, but that was definitely taken into consideration when I applied to med. My family is not wealthy and I have had zero monetary support from anyone else along the way (other than through loans which I am solely responsible for when it is all said and done). I put this out there to hopefully inspire those who are doing it on their own and to let the haters know that UBC does not necessarily discriminate against people who live on their own or do not have wealthy parents. You may have to put in a bit more sweat along the way, but it is possible and worth every bit of effort you put into it.

 

+1 There are many of us at UBC who put themselves through like Bosco here. Although I had the privilege of being able to live at home for a few years (despite several hours of commuting each day) I paid for every cent of my undergrad and now MD (minus BC Student loans) by working my ass off at multiple jobs. I truly believe UBC takes this into consideration (maybe not as much as I wish they did..)

[Lunasly]

I'm pretty sure asasas is referring who are fully independent, that is people who pays for rent, insurance, food, ect all on their own. Doesn't seem like you're doing all of that. Also, you haven't applied yet so how are you so sure they will really take that into consideration? Don't be naive, they won't care.

 

How do you know they won't care? Are you confident with your answer? I feel more confident with mine.

 

By the way, I don't directly put money toward rent, food, etc, but I actually do more. Technically, my entire "pay-check" goes to the family.

[21staminoacid]

With attitudes like yours it's quite obvious why you weren't accepted. You think "no other applicants can compare to me" yet you say things like that pretty funny.

 

That's why work experience counts? Obviously you can't volunteer as much if you have to work. And that is why they count work experience.

And again I will repeat, don't say things when you clearly are misinformed or ignorant about. My best friend is independent. He's taking student loans out and is volunteering/working. He doesn't work full-time but he is getting non financial backing from his family. He has to pay it all by himself. Books/food/tuition/etc. He's not complaining.

 

And frankly I am taking student loans as well.

I saved up enough money during highschool to pay for my meals/housing. I worked since I was 14 and haven't stopped yet. So please take your whiny ass somewhere else if you think you are the only one having a "tough road" there are tons of people who have it tough, I consider myself to be lucky

 

Again I ask you, how is UBC SO unfair?

You think your parents not supporting you financially is UBC's fault?

 

 

you basically proved his point, you're not in UBC b/c his application blew "up out of the water"....lol

[Prince Medward]

Children of higher income parents are overrepresented in professional schools. That is a fact. There are a number of reasons for this but the most important is that these parents pay for their children's education and room and board.

 

Therefore, their children can spend all their time studying and get killer GPA's. GPA is the single most important factor in getting a UBC interview. Parents who do not pay for thier kids education are shotting their children in the foot. Kids with parents like that are running a race with a broken ankle.

 

When you are planning your life, if you decide to have kids, you absolutely must pay for their education to ensure that they do not need to work and go to school at the same time. This is a competition and every advantage counts. Sacrifice whatever you have to to make this happen.

 

Parents of the kids that your child will compete against don't have high regard for values like "independence" and "self-sufficiency". Those values will only make you fall behind the competition in the admissions race and therefore they are self-defeting values.

 

It is a merciless war and people will do anything for admission, including, obviously, wielding their connections and influence.

 

Don't be naive and do what is necessary to win.

 

P.S. Of course, my comment makes the admissions process look ugly. But it is ugly. Competition for money and prestige (which is what a med school spot means to many people) is usually ugly.

[loverberry]

You do more? get your head out of your ass. you think giving your family your measly $800 cheque equates to doing "more" than someone who's truly independent?.

 

 

Are you asasas, making a 2nd account to get some support on your comment? If not, it's sad to see 2 people on the forums who are so blatantly rude. Please try to keep it classy, your attacks are uncalled for and extremely offensive.

[markov79]

I'm pretty sure asasas is referring who are fully independent, that is people who pays for rent, insurance, food, ect all on their own. Doesn't seem like you're doing all of that. Also, you haven't applied yet so how are you so sure they will really take that into consideration? Don't be naive, they won't care.

 

i srs can't understand the first sentence. what were you trying to say?

[IamIDP]

For the first article, the mom has got to be kidding.

Some people will obviously slip through and we all know US medical school admissions are easier in comparison to Canadian medical schools...

 

He could have bombed the UBC interview and aced the Columbia's.

 

There are too many variables. Just because he got accepted to Columbia and became a neurosurgeon doesn't mean he should've been accepted to UBC and that their admissions was unfair.

I'm sure many UBC graduates who became a neurosurgeon or w/e would have been rejected by other medical students..

 

EDIT: The truth is there is far more talented/capable students than allowed seats at UBC. I think the dean made it clear that there were far more capable candidates than the seats available. So it i inevitable that some qualified students get rejected.

 

I think the Canadian system of accepting students is very VERY bias. They should look at the entire person not just their grades. Look at this guy as an example, he got into Columbia. I don't think you udnerstand what Columbia Med is... Many people who choose Columbia med over Toronto Med. But yes, UBC med along with the rest of the Canadian schools are kicking out well rounded applicants every year without consideration of alot of factors.

[in2bat0r]

Are you asasas, making a 2nd account to get some support on your comment? If not, it's sad to see 2 people on the forums who are so blatantly rude. Please try to keep it classy, your attacks are uncalled for and extremely offensive.

 

I second that, disappointing...

[UBCStudent128]

I think the Canadian system of accepting students is very VERY bias. They should look at the entire person not just their grades. Look at this guy as an example, he got into Columbia. I don't think you udnerstand what Columbia Med is... Many people who choose Columbia med over Toronto Med. But yes, UBC med along with the rest of the Canadian schools are kicking out well rounded applicants every year without consideration of alot of factors.

 

Like I said, hes one individual. Just because he got into Columbia doesn't mean he should have been accepted to every other school.

We don't know how he did on UBC's interview compared to Columbia. Also do you think the system is bias JUST because of one example of seemingly well-rounded applicant that slipped through MANY other well-rounded applicants?

Looking at his statistics, he didn't seem extraordinary outstanding compared to many Canadian applicants.

 

Also since when did UBC med just look at applicant's grades?

If that's the case, I wonder how those people with 70's were getting in UBC med?

 

 

I don't think Canadian universities are biased.

American schools and Canadian schools have different standards.

There are WAY less med schools in Canada so the GPA standards are obviously higher. This doesn't mean Canadian Universities only care about GPA.

Using your logic Columbia + other schools are biased schools that only care about GPA b/c their standards are higher than Carribean's.

 

I really don't understand what the bias is towards UBC med or any other Canadian med schools.

I think people are just bitter that they weren't accepted. I've yet to see any real argument against the fairness of Canadian med school's admission.

[larva]

What stood out for me about the UBC admissions process is that it was by far the least transparent and most difficult to deal with out of the 4 schools to which I applied. (not a huge sample, I know)

 

Communication from the school was vague, feedback minimal, and evaluations weren't explained well. It was very difficult to actually talk to anyone besides a nameless assistant when phoning admissions, and that got frustrating. (there were problems with one of my pre-reqs that necessitated the contact) Perhaps this is what is driving people to say it is unfair or biased - because it is really hard to find out how you're being evaluated, or why certain decisions are being made.

 

That said, I was accepted with less than stellar grades + almost only work experience for NAQ, so I'm not saying this out of resentment.

 

Perhaps if UBC opened up a bit (a lot!) and followed the other schools that are engaging applicants via blogs, social media etc, people would overall have a better feeling about the process.