Guest UWOMED2005 Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Or maybe we should look at where all these women are coming from. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UTMed07 Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Kirsteen: Hasn't a similar trend been taking place in engineering programs over the years? That is, although men may still outnumber the women, the proportion of women in engineering classes is increasing. It depends on the program. A number are still very much over-populated by males (electrical, mechanical)... others (chemical, engineering science) have had more females than males the last 5+ years. moo: They like to argue that women have more of the qualities they are looking for but I think it is an indirect attempt at recruiting more women into medicine. I don't think there is a conscious effort to recruit more women... even at Mac. There is one thing I wonder -- are they looking for more family doctors? Look at the CaRMS stats; almost, twice as many women choose family medicine. Any case, I think more women in the profession is a good thing--they are working to create more balance... and act as a brake on the workaholic/neglect their family types. turtle: I'm also doing an inter-university diploma program in Health Services & Policy Research....it's only the first year that the program's been offered but with 6 universities participating there are about 20 or so students and ALL of us are women!! Makes me think I should have done epidemiology and health research... I find the course we have on it interesting (something that's considered so very uncool). My undergrad class was 10 to 90 female-to-male... not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest moo Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 I'm sorry but when you have an 80/20 ratio consistently from year to year it says something. What if the ratio were reversed? I'll bet you all the feminists would start jumping at the admissions committee at whatever school screaming their heads off. I sure hope this is not a way to right a wrong of the past... as I said in another post, women are not disadvantaged nowadays such that they need extra brownie points just for not having the Y chromosome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Hi there, Yes, these ratios do say something. However, what they say could stem from a large number of factors many of which may be more plausible than a simple, unfounded gender bias of the we-just-like-girls-better-variety. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fox Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Just to add to the discussion, the class of 2006 at U of A had 70 males and 51 females, and my class has 66 females and 65 males. So, perhaps some schools do have a predominance of females, but as one of the surgeons pointed out at a talk, this represents the fact that more and more women are applying to medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 In a brief discussion at a pretty high level UBC committee a couple years back, one of the medicine deans noted that with the exception of Engineering and Computer Science, every other department at UBC had more female students than males. Pretty staggering statistic if you think about how "higher education" used to be the domain of the males. We've certainly travelled a long way. I too wonder where all the guys have gone. It's not like there's a whole bunch of great industry jobs out there that you can take immediately out of high school. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 And I'll repeat, a lot of the trade jobs such as electrician jobs and plumbing jobs aren't being filled either. How many professional athletes are there now in North America? Probably not enough, eh? Yeah, I can't figure it out either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Hi there, Could there be a rise in <gasp> male domestic engineers, i.e., (the hugely unpolitically correct term), house husbands? Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Hi there, Another possibility: males are simply opting out of paths in higher education, or deferring them. Business is still dominated by men. Perhaps many men are choosing routes that lead straight from high school to business and seeking formal education where necessary later on, e.g., Executive MBA programs (which are hugely male-filled). Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Hi again, Does anyone have some numbers available on the ratio of women to men in the 2007 classes for Queen's, UofT and Ottawa? I'd be interested in hearing what they may be. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Yeah, I can contribute that MBA programs (at least here at UWO/Ivey) remain at a ratio of 70:30 or even 80:20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Hi there UWOMed2005, Sorry, I should have specified: I was interested in learning the male:female ratios of those medical classes of 2007. I've had a quick scour of the web and came up with lots of interesting statistics except these. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cutieyellow Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 At U Laval in Qc City, for the 2007 class, in 187 students, we have 49 men and 138 women, which roughly equals a 25:75 ratio. It has been like this for the past 4-5 yrs. There has been research as to why, and they have determined that it just so happens that girls perform better both in school and in interviews. There is no discrimination at any level in the sex, ie, wanting more GPs or anything, it is just the fact that women are 'better'. Or perhaps they stress a lot more in school and a lot less during interviews, who knows There are committees formed here though b/c they are trying to figure out what to do, when do they have to draw the line, when it's 90:10 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Hi there cutieyellow, Thanks very much for providing that information. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noncestvrai Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 It would be interesting to know what is the sex of the interviewers at most schools in Canada, it appears, maybe sheding some light in this "women perform better in interviews". noncestvrai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Sorry Kirsteen, I was responding to your previous post about guys going straight into business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest moo Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 If it is indeed the case that women perform "better" on interviews (whatever that means) then why is it the case that at the American school I am at, the ratio has been consistently 50/50 for the past few years, and in general, across the US? (This is not due to the fact that there are many more men applying. For the first time ever actually applicants to the Class of 2007 had MORE women apply (slightly more, like 51/49), yet the ratio across the US is about 50/50) I just don't buy this argument that women are intrinsically better. There's some selection bias going on whether it is intentional or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Hi there, Perhaps it could be the case that women perform better in the areas that are used by Canadian schools as pre-interview selection criteria? Also, could the relative importance of these pre-interview selection criteria differ between Canadian and US schools? For one, US schools tend to put much more emphasis on MCAT performance, no? Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest moo Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Well it's true that US schools put more emphasis on the MCAT. But anyway, my point is, how different can the criteria be to evaluate applicants? I'm just saying that if your entering class is so vastly different from the make up of your applicant pool then there likely is to be some sort of selection bias (esp. when this happens year after year). For example, it is a known fact that some schools in the US favor admitting ethnic minorities (just look at Howard, where the entering class is 80% African American). Not that I think there's anything wrong with affirmative action, just like how I think UBC should recruit more Natives into the program. But the difference is that these groups are UNDERREPRESENTED and disadvantaged, something that you cannot argue for in women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest glo Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 I went to a McMaster information session last year and the session leader (I can't remember his name) said something to the effect that the reason so many more women were accepted by Mac was because women had more emotional maturity. He said it in passing, and no one questioned him on it, so I don't know when they assess 'emotional maturity'...pre or post interview. One would hope it would be post-interview because you cannot judge something like that from a piece of paper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 I was there as a student rep at the time and remember that comment - I think he said that tongue and cheek... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EMHC Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 After reading all the other posts I agree that for some reason, on the aggregate, Canadian schools seem to accept more females than males. Kirsteen: I'm doing a Commerce degree myself right now and here at UBC, the program is predominantly female. I was looking at the composite photos another day trying to find a family friend and I've noticed that the shift from a mostly male program has become just the opposite today.(and the person who I was looking for graduated 5 years ago). There may be certain careers in the business world (eg: sales and trading, investment banking, corporate finance etc) which may have a higher percentage of male workers at the moment, but with the shift of an highly increasing amount of females graduating with management degrees, I doubt that this trend will last very long. I read an article in the National Post which talks about the same thing as Aneilz post. Boys are not succeeding in elementary school, so how on earth are they supposed to go do a medical degree:rolleyes !!! This may sound politically incorrect but my roommate who's from Germany thought he was in a girl's school when he was on campus. Slightly exaggerated, since he's at the same school and he's male, but... I would say that it's time for a true education reform to bring the boys back onto track to head for a post secondary education. I read in one of the previous posts that the provinces are reluctunt to fund boys only elementary schools so to facilatate them to excel in school. You don't need special schools, just do the things we did back in the days when boys did excel and that might just be the solution. Having females dominate what males did dominate for so many years to "square things out" isn't the way to go. Two wrongs do not make a right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RageoftheDragon Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I like that last point EMHC. Something somebody mentioned earlier is the massive dominance of females in Veterinary medicine. This is interesting to me, being the child of a vet. It raises the issue of how this skewed selection is affecting the profession. In the case of Vet med, women tend to practice a lot less in terms of both hours and years. This is greatly exacerbating the increasing shortage of Vets. This may not be very noticeable in the city, where standard hours of business operation are favored and small animal practice is the norm, but this raises the other issue in Vet med; most of the women veterinarians practice small animal medicine, leaving large animal services in severe shortage. It is quite the interesting series of sequences, and while it is vet med, I think it should be regarded with care to see what might cross over into medicine. I think the time factor instantly comes into play, thanks simply to the fact that if a woman decides to bear children, that must take time away from a career, even if there is a stay at home husband to raise the child after maternity leave. It also seems that men are more willing to work the longer killer hours, not that I'm naming some sort of virtuous character, but it just seems a noticeable trend. Could even just go hand in hand with the risky behavior of men (workaholism) leading to earlier death. Who knows? Anyways, just wanted to see if I could get other ideas flowing on what the possible outcomes of this skewed acceptance pattern may be. RotD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Hi there, It's an interesting discussion, that's certain. Could even just go hand in hand with the risky behavior of men (workaholism) leading to earlier death. In terms of the above, the most recent demographic data demonstrate that men are actually now catching up to women in terms of mean life expectancy in Canada. In a few years, it is projected that the former life expectancy gap will close. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RageoftheDragon Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Glad to see that smarter living is catching on! RotD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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