The professional-class bubble is bursting

[nonstop]

I don't understand what makes medicine such an appealing profession, other than the money and respect/prestige. If you like the science behind it and want to make a difference then become a researcher. I don't see how doctors make a difference in the world, since they're so easily replaceable by someone just as competent.

Statistically, medicine, of all professions, has the highest rate of suicide, divorce and depression. What does that tell you?

To say that medicine is the only thing that will make you "happy", is, at best naive. There's nothing wrong with being a doctor (that's what we're all here for) but if you're doing it for "happiness" then you're either misguided, naive or lying to yourself.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Robin Hood]

I don't understand what makes medicine such an appealing profession, other than the money and respect/prestige. If you like the science behind it and want to make a difference then become a researcher. I don't see how doctors make a difference in the world, since they're so easily replaceable by someone just as competent.

Statistically, medicine, of all professions, has the highest rate of suicide, divorce and depression. What does that tell you?

To say that medicine is the only thing that will make you "happy", is, at best naive. There's nothing wrong with being a doctor (that's what we're all here for) but if you're doing it for "happiness" then you're either misguided, naive or lying to yourself.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Seems you forgot the art of healing, not everyone is there for money and prestige. I know that it's not rosy, and that sometimes, you can't help your patient, and that you can see him die in front of you, but you can still contribute to healthcare. Also, tell me who can replace doctors in their job?

[paloma22]

If any of you are familiar with Margaret Wente, this is just yet another one of her poorly-researched columns on some "controversial" or "hot button" issue where she gets to air some sort of contrarian or "hard-nosed realist" viewpoint.

 

I really wouldn't pay too much attention to it.

 

+1

 

I follow the globe daily and her articles are the worst. No idea how she has her own column. Poorly written and researched, usually just stolen ideas from other more legit sources like the NYT.

[nick]

If any of you are familiar with Margaret Wente, this is just yet another one of her poorly-researched columns on some "controversial" or "hot button" issue where she gets to air some sort of contrarian or "hard-nosed realist" viewpoint.

 

I really wouldn't pay too much attention to it.

 

All too familiar with her. I wouldn't take anything she writes seriously.

[A-Stark]

I don't understand what makes medicine such an appealing profession, other than the money and respect/prestige. If you like the science behind it and want to make a difference then become a researcher. I don't see how doctors make a difference in the world, since they're so easily replaceable by someone just as competent.

Statistically, medicine, of all professions, has the highest rate of suicide, divorce and depression. What does that tell you?

To say that medicine is the only thing that will make you "happy", is, at best naive. There's nothing wrong with being a doctor (that's what we're all here for) but if you're doing it for "happiness" then you're either misguided, naive or lying to yourself.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Eh, in what other profession do you get to do as many interesting things just while training? I kinda like being able to say that I know how to secure a not-overly-difficult airway and how to drill a burrhole.

[medigeek]

I don't understand what makes medicine such an appealing profession, other than the money and respect/prestige. If you like the science behind it and want to make a difference then become a researcher. I don't see how doctors make a difference in the world, since they're so easily replaceable by someone just as competent.

Statistically, medicine, of all professions, has the highest rate of suicide, divorce and depression. What does that tell you?

To say that medicine is the only thing that will make you "happy", is, at best naive. There's nothing wrong with being a doctor (that's what we're all here for) but if you're doing it for "happiness" then you're either misguided, naive or lying to yourself.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Because people like the job? Making a diagnosis, treating a patient, etc. Research is NOT the same and there is so much more to science than just basic science research.

And when you add in the fact that doctors make great money and have great prestige, then it becomes a terrific career.

 

Do you have any stats to show that is has the highest suicide rate? highest divorce rate? highest depression?

 

I think anyone who's a doctor doing a specialty they chose for the right reasons who ends up becoming depressed has personal issues. There's people starving and dying every second around the world and those people arent committing suicide. Then oh Dr. 300k/year in north american is depressed.

[medigeek]

A couple with joint income of 80-100K can't do anything they want? Boo ****ing hoo...Oh no, they will have to settle for a Honda rather than a Mercedes..please..

 

There's entire families getting by with 40k and doing fine for themselves. The sense of entitlement among some people is ridiculous.

 

1) It depends on how you're raised. If you lived in a household where low income was the norm, then you'll be very happy with 80k. If your parents brought in 250k/year, you probably wont be. It's all relative.

 

2) Families may be doing 'okay" with 40k somewhere in quebec...But I don't know anyone in the GTA (wont even mention toronto) who is doing fine with 40k. You also forget some people aspire to achieve highly in every area, by doing the job they want at the highest quality/making the most money/etc.

[OttawaURookie]

Well I think someone forgot to tell nonstop that it can be both. People do it for happiness but it can still be depressing and tough at times. Intelligent people aren't going to stop themselves from doing something because its hard too. Knowing TOO MUCH is always problematic. Sometimes its a lot better to be naive, naive about how the world works, naive about yourself, naive about others, naive about a subject...it lets you rest at night a lot easier.

 

In the end, how would you not get depressed when people are really sick around you, dying, etc? At the same time, how would you not feel a great sense of accomplishment for healing someone, saving someone, or being a voice for them?

 

They say that some of the most creative minds have fought depression and that doesn't surprise me at all. People that have a lot of knowledge, world experience, intelligence, are always going to be a bit more depressed but these same people wouldn't be happy doing things that didn't test them.

[Wayward son]

Do you have any stats to show that is has the highest suicide rate? highest divorce rate? highest depression?

 

For suicide Psychology Today and The Straight Dope have written about it.

[OttawaURookie]

In regards to the topic at hand...

 

I do believe that we live in an age of entitlement. A lot more folks are getting a chance at an education, parents are supporting their kids by allowing them to live at home a lot longer, and kids have a lot more time to decide what they want to do before settling down. These are not negative things but at the same time it leads to some people thinking they can have it all.

 

I'm not saying that the system is perfect but it's pretty darn close and pretty clear. Med students know what specialities they can easily match to and they also know ones that are really competitive, and the ones that have few spots in general. Are people actually going to suggest now that they should be able to get into any speciality they want to just because?! Heck its not even a situation where there are too many docs either...in fact, there is a shortage!

 

So yeah, if you want it all, and you can't imagine yourself being a doctor if you don't get derm, then I'm sorry, you should have stopped wasting money and given a chance to someone who wants to be a doctor.

[paloma22]

if anyone is interested in the comments on this article, they are quite entertaining:

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/margaret-wente/the-professional-class-bubble-is-bursting/article2416390/comments/

[NLengr]

2) Families may be doing 'okay" with 40k somewhere in quebec...But I don't know anyone in the GTA (wont even mention toronto) who is doing fine with 40k. You also forget some people aspire to achieve highly in every area, by doing the job they want at the highest quality/making the most money/etc.

 

Even then it's probably a stretch. Take a standard family of 4.

 

40k = $3333 a month. $2500 after taxes or so.

 

You are gonna spend about 1200 minimum for housing. Then say 400 a month in food (and that's basic food). 400 for transport. Then on top of that the parents need to save some cash for retirement. They probably want to save a bit for their kids education. Then you have clothing, entertainment, activities and school stuff for the kids.

 

40k is very little for a family to live off of. That's basically 2 adults working minimum wage jobs.

 

Those people might successfully struggle to make ends meet, but in the long term picture, they will not be doing fine for themselves as was eluded to.

[UBCStudent128]

Like premeds would know what being a doctor is actually like. You can't know for sure that that's what will make you most happy. You can guess that but you won't know.

A lot of medical students say they changed their views about medicine after getting in med school and it is not what they thought it was. And I'm guessing some residents have this thought too. But really, unless you're actually working as one, I highly doubt you can "know for sure" it's your calling, yadiyadiyada.

 

Also I LOOOOVVE when premeds say: " I want to be a doctor because I want to help people" yet shivers at the thought of becoming a nurse/paramedic/physiotherapists.. Lawl @ premeds

[Robin Hood]

Like premeds would know what being a doctor is actually like. You can't know for sure that that's what will make you most happy. You can guess that but you won't know.

A lot of medical students say they changed their views about medicine after getting in med school and it is not what they thought it was. And I'm guessing some residents have this thought too. But really, unless you're actually working as one, I highly doubt you can "know for sure" it's your calling, yadiyadiyada.

 

Also I LOOOOVVE when premeds say: " I want to be a doctor because I want to help people" yet shivers at the thought of becoming a nurse/paramedic/physiotherapists.. Lawl @ premeds

 

Nurses/paramedics/physiotherapists can't diagonize and prescribe.

[megaMooMoo]

Actually yes you do because most jobs are about applied learning. I thought biology was boring, I find it fascinating. Back in the day, I thought economics was useless but learned to love it because its wide ranging application to real world. I hated statistics but build a early career/business and reputation in an industry on statistical and analytical modeling.

 

People change what they hate all the time once they gain experience with something outside of the theoretical world and into an applied setting.

 

+10 broooooo

[nonstop]

Also, tell me who can replace doctors in their job?

 

A doctor is replaceable as an individual. I can never feel a sense of accomplishment knowing that had i not existed, had i not been born, someone of pretty much equal competency than me would be in my seat in med school , internship, and then doing the job that I do, treating the patients that I treat.

 

There are certain professions where the individual is irreplaceable, like research (mostly), social economist, social activist/leader, politician, etc.

 

Not only do these jobs have the potential of making long-term and wide-reaching change, if you hadn't existed, the issue that you're fixing would've likely not been fixed until a few years/decades/centuries after. Real accomplishment is when you are able to say that you gave 100 villages in Africa running water when they wouldn't have gotten it otherwise until the next few decades. Accomplishment is being able to say that the economic policies conjured and implemented by you lifted thousands of families out of poverty. Accomplishment is being able to say that you legalized gay marriage through your actions in the parliament.

Not "oh I 'save' a few 20-30 people everyday who walk through that hospital/clinic door". In fact as a doctor, unless you're in emergency med, you wouldn't be "saving" anyone per se.

 

Eh, in what other profession do you get to do as many interesting things just while training? I kinda like being able to say that I know how to secure a not-overly-difficult airway and how to drill a burrhole.

Looks like you like the idea of being a doctor. I'd like to be able to say everything like that too. That categorizes under prestige. But does the act of securing an airway or drilling a burrhole make you happy? If it does then I give it to you, you'd be a happy doctor.

 

Maybe one of the reasons why the suicide/depression is so high is because most doctors end up sitting in their clinic, running a business, basically prescribing cough/cold/pain medicine to every other patient when they had the potential to change the world.

 

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, but if you tell me that it's wrong to pursue medicine because of the money/prestige and that you should pursue it because it gives you happiness then let me tell you, there's nothing to be happy about in medicine other than the money and prestige.

[seeking1]

Margaret Wente is a hack. Her only skill is making outrageous unsubstantiated claims and prompting angry responses. She's basically a professional newspaper troll.

 

+1. We should all write in letters to say she should be replaced, or at least moved to the National Post.

[Birdy]

Nurses/paramedics/physiotherapists can't diagonize and prescribe.

 

Nurses serve a purpose as part of the diagnostic team, increasingly these days as more emphasis is being placed on interdisciplinary medical teams. Nurse practitioners are also very valuable members of the medical community, and they both diagnose and prescribe.

 

Paramedics will be the first hands on many patients, and should be valued for their skills in extremely stressful situations.

 

Physiotherapists are invaluable in recovery for patients. They are extraordinarily valuable to the patients' quality of life.

 

I want t be a doctor as much as anyone on this forum, for my own reasons. But do not be so quick to dismiss other health professionals as lesser professionals because they do not have the same scope of practice. Every member of the health care team is valuable in some way to the patient, and the reality of medicine is that no doctor is an island and needs to be able to value the other members of the care team for what they bring to the table.

 

I know I'm not a doctor, so of course you may dismiss what I have to say, but these are opinions I have heard from family members are friends who are health professionals, as well as MDs I am personally acquainted with.

[moo]

What I've been saying all along.

 

Still, I'm making a decent amount. After overhead this weekend, over two days, I made 2200 bucks (gross billings 3200). One of my slower weekends too. Choose the right specialty, be a good doc and patients will flock to you.

[chii]

Nurses/paramedics/physiotherapists can't diagonize and prescribe.

 

Physiotherapists definitely do diagnose (at least, in a sports physio setting). They determine the problem, work out and prescribe a plan to fix it and use tools to achieve the result.

 

Nurses, I don't really know.

 

Paramedics don't diagnose the end problem, but the certainly have to determine the problem and then stabilize it for transport until they get to the hospital. Prescribing, nope, but they do have a (limited) scope of practice depending on their level.

[future_doc]

nonstop, its sad that you feel that way, all the more so if you are a med student. I assure you that going to a no-name university does not lead to becoming a no-name doc and the so-called prestige is illusory. As for money, other careers can lead to more.

[Wayward son]

nonstop, its sad that you feel that way, all the more so if you are a med student. I assure you that going to a no-name university does not lead to becoming a no-name doc and the so-called prestige is illusory. As for money, other careers can lead to more.

 

Is nonstop in medical school? According to his/her first post from a couple months back he/she is in grade 11.

[megaMooMoo]

Nurses/paramedics/physiotherapists can't diagonize and prescribe.

 

.... and FM's can do surgery, whats your point.

[futureGP]

I can never feel a sense of accomplishment knowing that had i not existed, had i not been born, someone of pretty much equal competency than me would be in my seat in med school , internship, and then doing the job that I do, treating the patients that I treat.

 

True a doctor can be replaced, but idk if the experience patient had can be replaced.

 

I think the wonderful thing about medicine is if you don't give a crap about accomplishments or legacies or recognition, you can just do a lot of clinical work and help people that way.

 

If you feel like you need a sense of accomplishment, you can always do research whether clinical or basic science.

 

If you're in mid 40s, with no kids, and want to express generativity (But can't do so in parenthood, legacy, research), you can always teach and mentor new doctors + other students and feel a sense of accomplishment that way

[future_doc]

Is nonstop in medical school? According to his/her first post from a couple months back he/she is in grade 11.

 

Hi I'm a looong time lurker, first time poster. I'm in grade 11 and it'l almost time that I decide what undergrad I'm going to pursue.

 

So far in high school, computer science was my easiest and highest-scoring subject. I also find biology interesting and want to pursue the field of medicine as I don't find the typical comp sci job of working in a cubicle glued to the monitor 9-5 very appealing.

 

.........