Toronto vs Queens vs Ottawa

[1234]

So it's not true then that UofT students tend to be much more stressed due to their heavy lecture schedule? uOttawa students have so much more time off for electives or studying, whereas the 9-5 schedule of Toronto makes me think that there's a lot less time for doing anything but studying.

 

I barely went to lecture and I just graduated from UofT Med. I studied on my own for a couple of hours, grabbed lunch with friends, hit the gym in the afternoon, listen to a couple of lectures (everything is recorded and posted online), hit up a Jays/Marlies/Leafs game, bar, and then do it all over again. Barely used an alarm clock in the first two years.

 

Yes, there is a lot of information to cover. They test a lot of detail. But that studying in the first two years makes clerkship a breeze.

[kc752]

Reading the Independent Student Analysis from 2011 made me dissappointed about quite a few things @ UofT (http://www.md.utoronto.ca/Assets/FacMed+Digital+Assets/ume/Accreditation/ISAfinal.pdf?method=1

 

To be fair, the admin did make some changes in response (see: http://www.md.utoronto.ca/Assets/FacMed+Digital+Assets/ume/Accreditation/2011facultyresponsetostudentindependentanalysis.pdf?method=1). A lot of the changes still seem inadequate to me though...

[quackster]

Have other schools conducted an independent student analysis?

 

Other schools probably have their own problems too. U of T is just good at being transparent with their efforts to address student concerns.

[battleford]

Have other schools conducted an independent student analysis?

 

Other schools probably have their own problems too. U of T is just good at being transparent with their efforts to address student concerns.

 

I think that's probably quite accurate. All schools have problems, and most are pretty receptive at addressing them. Some may not be as transparent as others.

 

1. UofT for example addressed the H/P/F system by changing to a P/F system to keep in line with the Ontario med schools.

 

2. Queen's is in the process of changing their clerkship schedule around (they're students used to start clerkship halfway into 3rd year)

 

3. UWO had issues with certain surgical attendings being too "old-school" with respect to both medical students and residents. This is being worked on as it was really having a negative impact on learning.

[battleford]

Is student satisfaction generally high at UofT though? I keep hearing stories of people who go to UofT med and wished they had gone elsewhere for various reasons.

 

The UofT students I've encountered are generally quite happy. There's bound to be someone who is unhappy but that's true of any population of people.

 

I think students at all of the Ontario med schools I've encountered are similarly satisfied with their lives. I'm sure some folks in Toronto are put off by city-living, whereas there are people in Ottawa/Kingston/London/Hamilton who wish they could live in downtown Toronto.

[TarikB]

Hey. What I can tell you about Queen's is that it has a very good pre clerkship curriculum. They reduced the lectures by 50% and are now concentrating on a more case-based learning style of teaching combined with lectures. This is Awesome! In addition, the small program should offer you ample opportunity to really get to know your profs and fellow students. The Clerkship and Elective years are a bit interesting at Queen's. They resemble those at McGill but do not resemble classical 3rd and 4th years. Instead of having all clerkship in third year, and electives at the begining of fourth before cARMS apps, they actually have clerkships spread out over two years. This is advantageous if you know what you want to do as a med student, but if you are unsure about your career path, it might be harder as some electives will forcefully have to be taken after the cARMS deadline. so it all depends on you!

[deeman101]

Hey. What I can tell you about Queen's is that it has a very good pre clerkship curriculum. They reduced the lectures by 50% and are now concentrating on a more case-based learning style of teaching combined with lectures. This is Awesome! In addition, the small program should offer you ample opportunity to really get to know your profs and fellow students. The Clerkship and Elective years are a bit interesting at Queen's. They resemble those at McGill but do not resemble classical 3rd and 4th years. Instead of having all clerkship in third year, and electives at the begining of fourth before cARMS apps, they actually have clerkships spread out over two years. This is advantageous if you know what you want to do as a med student, but if you are unsure about your career path, it might be harder as some electives will forcefully have to be taken after the cARMS deadline. so it all depends on you!

 

 

3rd year in McGill is where all of the core clerkships are done, but theres also 4 weeks allocated to electives as well. Then a 4 week summer (which can be used to do another elective instead), and then 4th year is all electives. Thats probably more in line with most 4 year programs.

[Med0123]

3rd year in McGill is where all of the core clerkships are done, but theres also 4 weeks allocated to electives as well. Then a 4 week summer (which can be used to do another elective instead), and then 4th year is all electives. Thats probably more in line with most 4 year programs.

 

you have a total of 6x 4 weeks electives, correct?

[deeman101]

you have a total of 6x 4 weeks electives, correct?

 

Yup. Or 28 weeks for the regional campus. Not including an extra 8 weeks of summers if one chooses to do so.

[Med0123]

Yup. Or 28 weeks for the regional campus. Not including an extra 8 weeks of summers if one chooses to do so.

 

o m g, up to 36 weeks of electives?! the others MD programs in QC have maximum up to 16 weeks of electives...!

[deeman101]

o m g, up to 36 weeks of electives?! the others MD programs in QC have maximum up to 16 weeks of electives...!

 

Yea but we pay for it in drastically reduced summers. Our longest break is between 1st and 2nd year, and its 2 months. Next 2 summers are a month. And no winter break for 3rd and 4th year.

[thebouque]

Yea but we pay for it in drastically reduced summers. Our longest break is between 1st and 2nd year, and its 2 months. Next 2 summers are a month. And no winter break for 3rd and 4th year.

 

Laval university, 4 years stream (so comparable to McGill in length):

summer between 1st and 2nd year: 2 months (june 20 up to the end of august)

summer between 2nd and 3rd year : 6 weeks (july 10 to the end of august)

Clerkship (3rd and 4th year): 1 week to 10 days for christmas/new year but you're on call. No march break of course. 3 weeks of vacation in 3rd year. No break between 3rd and 4th year. 4th year: 2 weeks for christmas BUT no time off for carms whatsoever (just the day of your interview and sometimes the day before/after. You still have to complete 75% of your rotation despite carms). School year finishes 1 month before the mccqe like everywere else to my knowledge.

Electives: 16 weeks.

Why? because during clerkship, on top of all our core rotations (family, internal, geriatrics/yes it's a full core rotation at laval, surgery, psych, peds, obgyn), we have 4 weeks of ER, 3 weeks of community med, 1 week of ''procedural skills/ATLS/ACLS, 7 weeks of classes/back to basics/ethics (yes that's a lot...), 2 weeks of radiology, 2 weeks of anesthesia.

 

Sherbrooke: 4 years MD, roughly the same amount of vacations and electives (I'll let someone from sherbrooke elaborate).

 

So I don't see how your summers are drastically reduced compared to ours

[deeman101]

Laval university, 4 years stream (so comparable to McGill in length):

summer between 1st and 2nd year: 2 months (june 20 up to the end of august)

summer between 2nd and 3rd year : 6 weeks (july 10 to the end of august)

Clerkship (3rd and 4th year): 1 week to 10 days for christmas/new year but you're on call. No march break of course. 3 weeks of vacation in 3rd year. No break between 3rd and 4th year. 4th year: 2 weeks for christmas BUT no time off for carms whatsoever (just the day of your interview and sometimes the day before/after. You still have to complete 75% of your rotation despite carms). School year finishes 1 month before the mccqe like everywere else to my knowledge.

Electives: 16 weeks.

Why? because during clerkship, on top of all our core rotations (family, internal, geriatrics/yes it's a full core rotation at laval, surgery, psych, peds, obgyn), we have 4 weeks of ER, 3 weeks of community med, 1 week of ''procedural skills/ATLS/ACLS, 7 weeks of classes/back to basics/ethics (yes that's a lot...), 2 weeks of radiology, 2 weeks of anesthesia.

 

Sherbrooke: 4 years MD, roughly the same amount of vacations and electives (I'll let someone from sherbrooke elaborate).

 

So I don't see how your summers are drastically reduced compared to ours

 

I was referring to every school outside of Quebec . Btw after clerkship starts we get to pick christmas day or new years as a day off. Thats about it.

[thebouque]

I was referring to every school outside of Quebec . Btw after clerkship starts we get to pick christmas day or new years as a day off. Thats about it.

 

All right!

Still last year I was on call on christmas eve AND christmas day, but i had a few days before and after new years (for a total of about 7 days).

 

Peace

[Med0123]

Laval university, 4 years stream (so comparable to McGill in length):

summer between 1st and 2nd year: 2 months (june 20 up to the end of august)

summer between 2nd and 3rd year : 6 weeks (july 10 to the end of august)

Clerkship (3rd and 4th year): 1 week to 10 days for christmas/new year but you're on call. No march break of course. 3 weeks of vacation in 3rd year. No break between 3rd and 4th year. 4th year: 2 weeks for christmas BUT no time off for carms whatsoever (just the day of your interview and sometimes the day before/after. You still have to complete 75% of your rotation despite carms). School year finishes 1 month before the mccqe like everywere else to my knowledge.

Electives: 16 weeks.

Why? because during clerkship, on top of all our core rotations (family, internal, geriatrics/yes it's a full core rotation at laval, surgery, psych, peds, obgyn), we have 4 weeks of ER, 3 weeks of community med, 1 week of ''procedural skills/ATLS/ACLS, 7 weeks of classes/back to basics/ethics (yes that's a lot...), 2 weeks of radiology, 2 weeks of anesthesia.

 

Sherbrooke: 4 years MD, roughly the same amount of vacations and electives (I'll let someone from sherbrooke elaborate).

 

So I don't see how your summers are drastically reduced compared to ours

 

It's about the same thing at UdeM. McGill's clerkship curriculum looks pretty nice

[A-Stark]

Well, in the spirit of things, here's the Dal schedule:

 

Dalhousie University, 4 year program

Two summers from about mid-May to the last week of August between Med 1 and 2 and Med 2 and 3.

Clerkship: four 12-week blocks running from last week of August through to the second week of Sept, with a week of Intro to Clerkship at the beginning, 2 weeks elective before Christmas, 2 weeks vacation, and 1 week off at the beginning of April.

Electives: 12 weeks + 3 weeks "interdisciplinary" + 3 weeks non-tertiary/community, vacation/interview time, 3 weeks geriatrics in Med 4, 2 weeks LMCC prep, 1 week ACLS

 

Core rotations are Psych/Family (6 weeks each), Peds/Obs-gyn (6 weeks each), Surgery/Emerg (four 3 week rotations, 1 gen surg, 2 subspec, 1 emerg), Internal (three 4 week rotations, 1 CTU/MTU, 1 inpatient, 1 ambulatory/consults). No ophtho, anesthesia, radiology

[Prion]

Electives: 16 weeks.

 

 

Electives: 12 weeks + 3 weeks "interdisciplinary" + 3 weeks non-tertiary/community, vacation/interview time, 3 weeks geriatrics in Med 4, 2 weeks LMCC prep, 1 week ACLS

 

 

How many electives are before CaRMS? (Yes, I understand electives post-CaRMS are also useful)

[thebouque]

How many electives are before CaRMS? (Yes, I understand electives post-CaRMS are also useful)

 

At Laval? Everyone gets at least 2, some people get 3.

[A-Stark]

How many electives are before CaRMS? (Yes, I understand electives post-CaRMS are also useful)

 

About 10 weeks before the deadline plus the 2 weeks in Med 3. Half the class has geriatrics before the interview period.

 

Sounds like they really try to shield you from non-core rotations there!

 

Well, surgery selectives help a bit. You can do any subspecialty apart from ophtho. But the amount of exposure to ophtho is pretty minimal and there is no required anesthesia rotation. Ophtho in particular is annoying such that I had never used a slit lamp until my emerg rotations. None of this has much if any bearing on CaRMS, but it definitely affects exposure to some specialized skills. Clerkship is being "renewed" so this will likely change.