Birdy Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I have two kids, one with special needs. For the past few years my son's therapy took up so much of my time that I have done very, very little besides focus on him. The early intervention years are so essential with autistic kids that I have been home for two years to focus on him and have done very little outside the home. My concern is that having so little time for ECs may drastically reduce my chances of getting in. Between running the household on my own as my husband travels for work 90% of the time*, being there for the kids, and studying, I'm really not going to have extra time. I do a couple of activities that really don't require much time, and have employment experiences that I can list. But overall, I will not have long-term, intense ECs outside of my family obligations, and it seems like med schools want you to have a laundry list of achievements, exec positions, shadowing, hospital volunteering, what have you. I'm hopeful I can get into research for the summers as I'll still have to pay for daycare regardless, but evening stuff is out since my kids need some measure of stability with their daddy being gone all the time. Is this going to hinder me a great deal, assuming I have a competitive GPA and MCAT? I've heard people say that med schools like parent students, but the ones I see all seem to have managed to have really amazing ECs anyway. *Worth noting, he will quit that job when i get into med school, but because of where we live now, it is not possible for him to get a good enough job locally until we move to a different province for med school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Your involvement with your autistic kid and the autistic community helps prepare you for medicine, demonstrates you have many traits sought of physicians and this activity itself is an important long-term EC. It is definitely not about a laundry list. Quality not quantity matters. And you should continue to build upon your involvement, showing leadership, initiative, sensitivity, critical thinking, communication skills and being involved with your community for the betterment of kids needing understand:) ing and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Your involvement with your autistic kid and the autistic community helps prepare you for medicine, demonstrates you have many traits sought of physicians and this activity itself is an important long-term EC. It is definitely not about a laundry list. Quality not quantity matters. And you should continue to build upon your involvement, showing leadership, initiative, sensitivity, critical thinking, communication skills and being involved with your community for the betterment of kids needing understand:) ing and help. But, see, that's the problem. I really don't have a ton of time to be as involved with the community as I'd like. None, really. I'll finish my day at school around 5. Make supper, do dishes, vacuum, play with the kids, do homework with my son, make lunches for the next day, then have kids in bed by 8 after which I will study/do homework. During their waking hours (6am-8pm) on weekends, I'll be doing laundry, cleaning, yard work, cooking ahead for the week, tending pets, while trying to fit in as much quality time as I can. Running a household by oneself is a huge amount of work, which is probably a bit difficult to really understand if you haven't done it. After they are in bed, back to studying. Most of my study time is while they are asleep, so I can't be out doing stuff during that time, either. Attending the occasional meeting, I can do that, and I do. But taking on a position that requires significant investment of my time, like being heavily involved in a community group, isn't something I can do, and that seems to be the kind of stuff schools are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I think being a mom will be good for your application. However, I think it needs to be complimentary to other EC's. Leaving your EC section basically blank and commenting that you were too busy because of your parental commitments won't be favorable. I think that will lead the adcom to wonder if you will be able to handle the rigours of medicine while also being a parent, I'm sure that would be very difficult. I think the way to go with this might be to try and integrate your parenting with some EC activities. Could you get involved with the Autism Society on PEI? Can you do some volunteering at the day care centre for your kids? Could you lead some sort of program there? Could you raise money for healthy lunchs or breakfast or snacks for underprivileged children? Maybe you have to pay a babysitter while you volunteer one night a week. It will be worth the money when you get into medicine. Your situation is unique, I like to think that will put you at an advantage versus every other undergrad with a BSc. You just have to think of how to use it to your benefit! Your run-of-the-mill EC's may not always be the best since adcoms have seen them before. If you can pull off even average EC's then I'm sure the adcoms will be impressed. Show initiative, get creative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I think being a mom will be good for your application. However, I think it needs to be complimentary to other EC's. Leaving your EC section basically blank and commenting that you were too busy because of your parental commitments won't be favorable. I think that will lead the adcom to wonder if you will be able to handle the rigours of medicine while also being a parent, I'm sure that would be very difficult. I think the way to go with this might be to try and integrate your parenting with some EC activities. Could you get involved with the Autism Society on PEI? Can you do some volunteering at the day care centre for your kids? Could you lead some sort of program there? Could you raise money for healthy lunchs or breakfast or snacks for underprivileged children? Maybe you have to pay a babysitter while you volunteer one night a week. It will be worth the money when you get into medicine. Your situation is unique, I like to think that will put you at an advantage versus every other undergrad with a BSc. You just have to think of how to use it to your benefit! Your run-of-the-mill EC's may not always be the best since adcoms have seen them before. If you can pull off even average EC's then I'm sure the adcoms will be impressed. Show initiative, get creative! My ECs would not be blank. I was a personal care assistant for three years (until I was almost 19, and it was paid work.) I am angling to have summer research positions, ideally, and with a small school that's a bit easier to accomplish. I have also worked full time except for the past almost two years, which included time as a supervisor/coach/trainer and running a pilot project for a nationwide ISP. Also a member of a research network working to expand maternal health options in my province, and an active member of a political party, but those two activities don't take up a ton of time and are more occasional. It isn't that I havent done anything, I just don't have any of the big name stuff, so to speak, that so many other applicants do and I think that may reflect poorly on me. The things I am able to do during the school year going forward, will be far fewer than most students do. I am getting a better idea, thanks to what you guys are posting here, how I may be able to maximize the usefulness of what I do have. Future_doc has made the point before that it is all in how you sell yourself to the adcom, so getting a better idea of what they look for is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Big name stuff is unimportant. Just be who you are, you are on track. All you want to do is demonstrate who you are and you have done a winderful job marketing yourself here. It is a true pleasure getting to know you. Don't sweat it. It is a long journey, so enjoy the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Sounds like you're off to a good start! Those EC's are not so bad, but all of those were done when you were not in school. It's important to show that you can do multiple things while holding a high gpa with a full course load. You can definitely join clubs that will have their meetings during the daytime when you will be on campus. Also, if you create your own EC's, as mentioned above, then you will be able to tailor them around the times you are available. Identify an area where your community is in need, and create something to try and solve that problem. Identifying and working to solve a problem is an important aspect of medicine, IMHO, and I think adcoms will look favourably on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Thanks, guys. Also, I'm sorry for the whiny tone of my post. I'm not typically given To that sort of thing, but was feeling kind of inadequate today after browsing accepted/rejected threads. Next time I think about doing that, someone smack me, k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 It is so important to be positive, yes, realistic too. Consider yourself smacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Knew I could count on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Always. You know the drill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Yeah I did none of that stuff. This is great advice for kids out of high school, but myself, and every other parent I know in my class didn't do anything like this. So what did you do? Surely you didn't leave the EC section blank. BTW, employment and EC are different sections, and I doubt leaving a section blank is a good thing. I was just making some suggestions to be helpful. Maybe adcoms simply don't care about your EC's if you have a family, I wouldn't know since I don't have kids. I guess I feel that if you could show that you still pulled off some EC's while having a family then that would look really good, so why not try and aim to be the best applicant? I don't believe that many people are accepted into medicine with no EC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiga gal Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 keep up the good work mom! living with autism is reeeeeaallllyyy challenging...i doubt most parents who achieved that 'laundry list' did not have that experience and had another parent home 100% of the time. i am a single parent to a very active 2 year old, and i just went through one cycle of med apps, was not successful this time but will try again. i believe my ec's were the reason i had an interview, it was certainly not because of my gpa. i work full time shift work as a nurse and have a live out caregiver. but when i am not working we are together 24/7. i also own and run my home which includes dealing with frozen pipes, renos, etc..i am attempting a garden again..i have also been the coordinator for a community breast feeding group...how do i find the time? i don't do housework!!! just a reflection of your typical day, you vacuum every day? omg...perhaps if only for your sanity you need to do this, i understand..how much cleaning and cooking are you doing? i agree with another poster that an ad com is not going to want to hear that you had no time for community work because of your family, you will be competing with other people in similar situations who make the time. you have to think, once you are in med school how are you going to make the time for all the myriad committments of community and hospital involvement, aside from studying? just my 2 cents, i wish you success with you application Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Lots of others have never volunteered anywhere. Sure, no one will have a completely blank application but there have been countless threads and discussions on what are the "right" ECs to have and the consensus is that there are none and if you try to fake it by doing a bunch of things your not interested in it will show through. Some people have extensive travel experience, others work, some people have family's to take care of and if I am reading your application or interviewing you and I see that you try to do all this cheesy cliche pre-med crap instead of being a good parent I am going to seriously question your priorities. For my ECs (in addition to my work experiences, travel, and volunteer activities from when I was in high school 10+ years ago) I put down things like we take a family walk twice a week, we go camping in the summer, we enjoy going swimming...etc. I do not agree that people who have never volunteered will have an easy time being accepted. Medicine is about giving back to the community and I think you need to show that that is a value of yours through volunteering or other ways. You don't have to go over the top with it but I think having at least something to say on the application and possibly talk about during the interview would be a good thing. EC's like family walks or camping are great for showing that an applicant knows it's important to take time away from work/studying to relax and reset and maintain personal health of body and mind. I suggested volunteering with the Autism Society since her son is autistic. That may sound pre-medish to you, but I don't think that would be faking it by doing something she's not interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I do not agree that people who have never volunteered will have an easy time being accepted. Medicine is about giving back to the community and I think you need to show that that is a value of yours through volunteering or other ways. You don't have to go over the top with it but I think having at least something to say on the application and possibly talk about during the interview would be a good thing. EC's like family walks or camping are great for showing that an applicant knows it's important to take time away from work/studying to relax and reset and maintain personal health of body and mind. I suggested volunteering with the Autism Society since her son is autistic. That may sound pre-medish to you, but I don't think that would be faking it by doing something she's not interested in. Are you a doctor or med student? If not then how would you know what medicine is about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Are you a doctor or med student? Accepted @ Dal med school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Accepted @ Dal med school. Accepted still doesn't mean having any clue what medicine is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 What are you basing your opinion on? Someone else's opinion? How you think the system works? Or how you wish the system worked? What I can tell you from experience is that there are people who are accepted without volunteering for a number of reasons as hard as that may be to believe. I am not saying that these people represent a majority, or that they have an easy time doing but they are real, just like the people who have never had a job, never traveled anywhere, never done research, never performed CPR on a dying African orphan in the middle of combat...etc. If I am coming of harsh it is for a few reasons. The OP needs good advice, not advice based on conjecture or idealism, but because it may have an impact on themselves and their family's well being it should be legit. Sure volunteer with autism if you have time, but it is very easy for people who have no idea how hard even one, perfectly normal kid can be, to give advice about time commitments. Birdy if you ever want to talk to people who have been exactly where you are now send me a PM and I will get you in touch with a couple of the moms from my class or the years above. We have a network of parents that I can tap you in to if you are interested. Im done with this thread. So you're good advice is to bank on being one of the few people that are accepted without any volunteering? Well, that's your opinion and that's fine. My opinion, on the other hand, is that it won't hurt to show that you are well rounded and that you enjoy giving back to the community through volunteering. OP's first choice is Queens if I remember correctly. Here's their autobiographical sketch sections: Formal Education Employment Volunteer Actitivies Extra-Curricular Activities Awards & Accomplishments Publications & Research Other I wold guess parenting would fall into "Other" so there's probably lots of things you could list there. I would also think that filling in a few Volunteer and EC's might also be beneficial. I believe that it will be easier to get accepted if you show you are well-rounded as best you can. Maybe it's because of the values I was raised with, so I understand how everyone will think slightly different. Hopefully by taking into account lots of different opinions OP can make an informed choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Accepted still doesn't mean having any clue what medicine is about. I never said I knew what medicine is about. I do think I have a small amount of insight into what it takes to get accepted though. I still have lots to learn but would like to help others out who were hoping to get accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 @Birdy I received an interview at Queen's with what I thought were sub-par ECs. I figured they were sub par because they were not traditional. I became a father in November and during the school year it was very difficult to manage much outside of school work, and this is with an amazingly well behaved baby and a wife at home on maternity leave. My guess is that because you are older than most applicants that you have a good amount of ECs by virtue of having been around longer. Remember, you only have 48 spots. One thing I did was try and list ECs that would show I was going to be a parent. This might sound a little silly, but I put down a 7 hour birthing class my wife and I attended in September. Obviously it was not a huge time commitment, but it certainly said something about where I was at in life and who I am. If you cannot manage a lot of extracurricular activities I would try find something small that would highlight the fact that you are a parent. This combined with the fact that you are going to school full time shows adcoms that your are indeed a motivated individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I never said I knew what medicine is about. I do think I have a small amount of insight into what it takes to get accepted though. I still have lots to learn but would like to help others out who were hoping to get accepted. Medicine is about giving back to the community That is making a statement of claim that you understand what medicine is like. Those like Para D, Birdy, myself and many others who aren't follow the cookie cutter mold enroute to medicine have a completely different outlook than others who are in the traditional route. If going to school and holding down the marks required for med school while having a family and all the responsibilities that come with a family and home life doesn't show commitment and the ability to handle the workload then I don't know what does because I can assure you going to class and adding in 10-20 hours of volunteer work each week doesn't even come close to comparing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiga gal Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 i am pretty sure if someone has 'no' ec's then they have a stellar mcat, and gpa...depending on which med school you go to, clinical placements may start earlier, and that can include evening community work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I'm not sure I understand the flaming here. Are you saying that medicine is not about giving back to the community? If true, maybe I'll try to change that perspective when I become a doctor. I only ever said that participating in a few ECs would help OPs application and tried suggest a few ways that might be manageable while also being a parent. If not for discussion, what are these forums for? Don't flame me for having the opinion that ECs and volunteering will improve an application to med school. if someone has 'no' ec's then they have a stellar mcat, and gpa. Check out the accepted/rejections threads. Lots of people are rejected with high academics, and lots are rejected with high EC/volunteer. I think a good balance between the two are your safest bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I vacuum every day because we have pets (8 birds, a dog, three cats, and a fish, though the fish doesn't cause much vacuuming, hehe) but it honestly only takes a few minutes, and my daughter loves riding around on the vacuum so it's all good fun. We are considering hiring a housekeeper to take some of the pressure off of me, though. So you're good advice is to bank on being one of the few people that are accepted without any volunteering? Well, that's your opinion and that's fine. My opinion, on the other hand, is that it won't hurt to show that you are well rounded and that you enjoy giving back to the community through volunteering. OP's first choice is Queens if I remember correctly. Here's their autobiographical sketch sections: Formal Education Employment Volunteer Actitivies Extra-Curricular Activities Awards & Accomplishments Publications & Research Other I wold guess parenting would fall into "Other" so there's probably lots of things you could list there. I would also think that filling in a few Volunteer and EC's might also be beneficial. I believe that it will be easier to get accepted if you show you are well-rounded as best you can. Maybe it's because of the values I was raised with, so I understand how everyone will think slightly different. Hopefully by taking into account lots of different opinions OP can make an informed choice. I will have formal education, employment, volunteering (I have done it, just not a great deal recently), research (hopefully. Already working on networking for summer spots next year), extra curricular activities could easily be my memberships in advocacy and political organizations, I do have publications of a non-academic nature (and may have a children's book on autism published in the coming year, as I had some interest from publishers), in addition to my parenting. Like I said, my ABS will not be empty. In fact, I won't have any empty sections at all, except maybe awards. I just won't have a great deal of long-term, ongoing stuff. This time crunch thing will not be an issue when I am in med school, as I've mentioned. My husband will be quitting his job and finding one in the area to which we move so that I will have the time and energy to focus on med school. I do appreciate everyone's advice, and I'm sorry the thread turned a little heated. Thank you all for your perspectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Who is flaming? It's a discussion. There is no flaming going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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