taiga gal Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 hey that is good hiring a house keeper... well, i did a little Para D searching because i was curious about his statement that he 'did not do any of that stuff' in relation to ec's...and i found this: "Ummmm, I had 12 years of military experience including 4 tours of duty overseas, standard volunteering, research, married with child, maxed out on ECs at every school I got feedback from and it doesn't carry you unless you have the GPA to go with it. Some people will get in with lower GPA, it happens, its a gamble and this board is littered with more regrets then successes. You don't have to believe me or take my advice, I really couldn't care less. But do yourself a favor, look at the application stats for the schools you want to go to. Look at the ages, the GPAs and the types of degrees they have. If a school has an average 3.89/4.0 and your sitting there with a 3.5 figure out how many 4.0 students they would have to accept to balance out your 3.5 or whatever your GPA comes to. Next look at how they do a break down for admission criteria. Most schools don't objectively look at your degree they only care about the GPA. So no one cares if you went to law school or engineering or arts, its blind. ECs at most schools don't make up a huge chunk of the score, that and they are usually graded by med students and have low and tight score distributions. You are also competing with people that have many ECs and life experience, a JD and MBA is middle of the road at best without some solid work or volunteer experience. Bottom line is it was probably a lot of work to get to where you are, you should be proud of yourself its quite an accomplishment. It absolutely will not carry you into med school and you are setting yourself up for a long disappointing road if you believe otherwise." just think it is important to show a true picture...btw, most of his posts have a 'heated' tone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 All I ever said was that EC and volunteering will help an application to med school. That's my advice. People can have different opinions and that's fine. But I'm going to stick by my advice. I never said it had to be a lot, just that it would be good to show some community involvement. Don't tell me that I know nothing about medicine. That's rude. I can only know what I've been told, and to date, all I've heard from med schools is that it's important to be well rounded and that a 4.0 will get you nowheres without some ECs to balance it out. Edit: Good find taiga_gal. Para D is a hypocrite and seems to make incendiary comments. Might not be the best person to take advice from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Some of you have reading comprehension difficulties it seems. Learn to read in context. It's useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Another valuable comment! Thank you for your contribution to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 All I ever said was that EC and volunteering will help an application to med school. That's my advice. People can have different opinions and that's fine. But I'm going to stick by my advice. I never said it had to be a lot, just that it would be good to show some community involvement. Don't tell me that I know nothing about medicine. That's rude. I can only know what I've been told, and to date, all I've heard from med schools is that it's important to be well rounded and that a 4.0 will get you nowheres without some ECs to balance it out. Edit: Good find taiga_gal. Para D is a hypocrite and seems to make incendiary comments. Might not be the best person to take advice from... I appreciate the advice, honestly, but I do think you are coming from a situation where you don't have a full appreciation for what it is to have the types of obligations that parents do. Nothing wrong with that, it's hard to really get it unless you actually experience it. I certainly had no idea what it was like until I actually had kids. My impression was that med schools look for applicants to have the 'traditional' volunteering stuff. I'm hearing from other students that for non-trads, that does not seem to be the case, that the stuff I do, and that they have done, does have value to adcoms. That's more what I was looking for, mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 My advice is that ECs matter, plain and simple. I know people who were on adcoms that share the same belief. You are free to believe others when they say ECs dont matter, and discussing your parenting experience is enough to counter your lack of EC and volunteer. That's a pretty big gamble to make. ECs, "traditional" or not, will help you get into med school. Sounds like you've got some good experiences already, but why not try and pad that with some more? I can assure you that that is what your competition is doing. Best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 My advice is that ECs matter, plain and simple. I know people who were on adcoms that share the same belief. You are free to believe others when they say ECs dont matter, and discussing your parenting experience is enough to counter your lack of EC and volunteer. That's a pretty big gamble to make. ECs, "traditional" or not, will help you get into med school. Sounds like you've got some good experiences already, but why not try and pad that with some more? I can assure you that that is what your competition is doing. Best of luck My family is an EC. A 100% time commitment one, at that. I do not have no ECs, I just will not have the same kinds as other students, the typical hospital volunteering, shadowing, club execs, years of regular weekly volunteering, and so on. I will have stuff from the summers, and several years' worth of other experiences to draw on. I have not stated that I won't be doing anything in the future or that I'll be relying on my family experience to be my only listed EC. What I am hearing from other non-trads is that these experiences I have as a mother, particularly a mom to a special needs kid, do have significant weight in considering me as an applicant. I was curious about that, and how that would stand compared to the regular types of ECs other applicants do. I am not saying that ECs don't matter, I was curious about how my kind of experiences will stand up when I will not have those usual ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Birdy, if you want the best advice contact the schools. They are always willing to set up an appointment for you one on one in person. Bring your questions and concerns and get the real deal. As I live in PEI, I am unlikely to be able to meet with them in person, but I do think I'll make some calls and see about getting their perspectives as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 4) All of my posts are inflammatory with a heated tone because this board has been flooded by morons with zero qualifications who give out terrible advice. 1 application cycle or a few friends who made it does not qualify you to give advice. This is such a waste of time, I honestly don't know why I ever bother. Yes, why do you even bother? Insulting and lashing out at people while hiding behind the anonymity of the internet usually reflects a person who in real life has little confidence or self-esteem. I hope all your angry forum posts are helping you to feel better about yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Henderson Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Birdy I think you're on the right track with what you're doing, and there is a lot of good advice here in amongst a bit of bickering. Take from it what you can and I'll add my two cents since I was also a non-trad applicant and a parent. In my opinion it is important to have ECs, but your commitment to your family is more important. That said, there is a way to have ECs even in the face of very strenuous family commitments. The key is to be creative. If its possible to go to any kind of group with your child(ren), do that and add it. Sit down and talk to friends and family about things that you could include as ECs, any past or present activities/hobbies/sports. It doesn't matter if you're not doing them right now, if you did them before parenthood, list them. You can explain that you had to stop after family commitments took precedent. Or, you can list those activities and just explain in a parenting EC entry that this now consumes your EC time outside of school/work. These are just some suggestions, do what works for you and what you feel comfortable with. Your GPA and MCAT show the school that you're academically capable, your ECs and reference letters are what paint the picture of who you are outside of academia. Some schools place more value on one than the other, and for this reason I think its important to apply as broadly as you can- it increases your chances at finding a school that values what you bring to the table. Parenting made up a portion of my EC list directly or indirectly, and factored into my interview conversations. Its an extremely valuable life experience and it can be drawn upon during applications and interviews. Use what you have to your advantage, its all about selling yourself. Your story is inspirational and I wish you the best of luck. If you have questions or concerns for me specifically please feel free to send me a PM any time I was told by my university academic adviser that I wouldn't be accepted to medical school after my first year of university, when I posted here a couple years ago I was told by many that I either wouldn't make it in Canada or that it was very unlikely. Of course there are many who were like me and were not successful, but not all things are equal, it isn't all about probabilities. Its about who you are as a person, how badly you want it, how hard you're willing to work, and of course intangibles like intelligence and personality. Be persistent, it might not happen on the first or second attempt, I was inspired by a lady that took 5 tries, had kids and a previous career. There's plenty of examples out there. One of my favourite quotes from The Pursuit of Happyness that kept me going for the whole ride, and now it means that much more having been accepted: "Hey. Don't ever let somebody tell you... You can't do something. Not even me. All right? You got a dream... You gotta protect it. People can't do somethin' themselves, they wanna tell you you can't do it. If you want somethin', go get it. Period." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasiunut Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 If I can add my two cents to this thread *** I think you are absolutely ok with you ECs as they stand and think that you should absolutely not think about committing to anything outside of your mandatory school work and your family for the first year of your undergrad. You absolutely need a very high GPA in order to get into med school - unless you have this, all else you have (decent MCAT, great ECs etc) won't mean anything. I'm saying this from experience - I thought I could do just ONE pre-req course (online) AND take an MCAT course, volunteer, do part time work and take care of all the wife/mother stuff and I ended up with a 79% in the course. It doesn't matter so much for most applicatons as its outside of my degree, but still I know I could have done better if I had studied more (I got 90s on all assignments/lab reports but did poorly on the exams because I wasn't prepared). As a parent, you need a lot of buffer time too. Two weeks before my final, my son ended up in the hospital with an intussusception. That killed - 12 hours in ER at one hospital in Toronto (mostly over night). Another 16 hours at Sick Kids. Followed by watching, monitoring my son for two days afterwards (i.e. precious little studying), taking my son to a follow up appointment at Sick kids 5 days after (killing a further 5 hours because they made a mistake with my booking). Suddenly my two weeks turned into one. And it wasn't the only example. There were many similiar instances where "something came up" and I had no choice but to put my studying aside. Kids get sick (especially when they are in daycare). You will get sick. Your roof might get a leak and you'll have to deal with it. You will need to bake a pie for thankgiving. You'll need to do Christmas shopping. In short, life will happen and you, being an independant adult and a parent will not be sheltered by the cocoon of ideal conditions (like the majority of undergrads who) where your only real obligation is to study and the only one you need to care about is you. But thats why I strongly advise for you to give yourself a break for the first year, at least, until you've developed a good method to deal with everything AND get GOOD GRADES. Once this is done, you'll know how much/how little extra you can handle. You may naturally end up joining a club or organization that is a good fit for you. Also, many even so-call "Exec" positions don't require that much work. I was the treasurer for a club for two years and my real committment was really nothing - but on my ECs its going to list that I did it for 2 years, the responsibilities I had (they were important, but just not at all time consuming) and that it was a leadership role. Also, you might find/start a club for parents who are studying, which might be useful because you might get some excellent tips that you might personally benefit from. Oh, and I think you should publish your children's book yourself if you aren't able to get it done by someone else - you can use a site like Lulu.com and you'll still be able to add "publised author" to your list Lastly, I wanted to note that I spoke with this med school admissions consultant (I wanted him to objectively assess my chances) who used to be on the Mac adcom for many years (no longer on it though) and he said that non-trads really are not evaluated the same as trad students. This is both good and bad. Its good because your uniqueness is what they are interested it. Also, they reserve a specific number of their med school seats for older/nontrad students. In a way, its bad because you aren't in fact competing for the 150 spots a med school might have, but actually for 15. However, there are probably less people (as percentage) who are competing for those spots. They are looking for qualities in their candidates that will make the med school experience richers for everyone - a mother of a child with Autism is, in my humble opinion, would be an awesome addition to a med school class, because you have real experience, dealing with a real medical issue for a really long time. You may not have memorized the periodic table when you were 19 or spent 500 hours changing sheets in a hospital, but what you will bring to the table will be so much more valuable and the AD COMS KNOW IT. Look, my advise is based on discussions with doctors, a med school prof, the above mentioned consultant, friends who are/were med students and common sense. All the best. ***Disclaimer - I'm neither a med student or even accepted into med school yet, so what I say should be taken with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 ^ Excellent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 My advice is that ECs matter, plain and simple. I know people who were on adcoms that share the same belief. You are free to believe others when they say ECs dont matter, and discussing your parenting experience is enough to counter your lack of EC and volunteer. That's a pretty big gamble to make. ECs, "traditional" or not, will help you get into med school. Sounds like you've got some good experiences already, but why not try and pad that with some more? I can assure you that that is what your competition is doing. Best of luck And I know people on adcoms who think EC's are a joke as they are not a true reflection of ones character. Do you know why? Because the majority of people wanting to get into med school only volunteer their or do something app worthy (I stead of writing partying with friends) because it's part of the process. If adcoms didn't place ANY value on these things how many do you think would continue with their activities... You know, that whole crap about medicine being about giving back to the community? I coach football and hockey, I volunteer my time at the food bank and I'm a big brother. I did all these things WAY before I ever considered medicine. That is giving back to your community, not some fluffy app crap just because it's some arbitrary checkbox for an application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 You guys are awesome, by the way. All of you who are parents, especially, have given me extremely valuable information and help. I love this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 And I know people on adcoms who think EC's are a joke as they are not a true reflection of ones character. Do you know why? Because the majority of people wanting to get into med school only volunteer their or do something app worthy (I stead of writing partying with friends) because it's part of the process. If adcoms didn't place ANY value on these things how many do you think would continue with their activities... You know, that whole crap about medicine being about giving back to the community? I coach football and hockey, I volunteer my time at the food bank and I'm a big brother. I did all these things WAY before I ever considered medicine. That is giving back to your community, not some fluffy app crap just because it's some arbitrary checkbox for an application. So...it sounds like you're saying...that those ECs/volunteering helped you get accepted into medicine? Thank you for proving my point! Haha Being involved because you want to be and not to check off a box for med applications is what's important. Hopefully people who are only checking off the box realize they like giving back to the community and continue to do it for personal fulfillment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 So...it sounds like you're saying...that those ECs/volunteering helped you get accepted into medicine? Thank you for proving my point! Haha Being involved because you want to be and not to check off a box for med applications is what's important. Hopefully people who are only checking off the box realize they like giving back to the community and continue to do it for personal fulfillment. I am not in medicine and you and no I didn't prove your point. All the EC's in the world won't help you if you don't have the GPA to back it up. After that it's relatively subjective. Why does the person with a 4.0 and quality EC's get passed over for the person with 3.8 and some menial club work who happens to play rec hockey once a week? For most schools, It's luck of the draw once you meet the cuts offs so how exactly are EC's helping? The fact is still, a majority of them do it only because it's what they think adcoms wants. As far as I know, there are no requirements for EC's, it's just that everyone does it because they think it'll make them stand out when the reality is meet the cut offs and the rest becomes a crap shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I am not in medicine and you and no I didn't prove your point. All the EC's in the world won't help you if you don't have the GPA to back it up. After that it's relatively subjective. Why does the person with a 4.0 and quality EC's get passed over for the person with 3.8 and some menial club work who happens to play rec hockey once a week? For most schools, It's luck of the draw once you meet the cuts offs so how exactly are EC's helping? The fact is still, a majority of them do it only because it's what they think adcoms wants. As far as I know, there are no requirements for EC's, it's just that everyone does it because they think it'll make them stand out when the reality is meet the cut offs and the rest becomes a crap shoot. Perhaps your attitude is part of the reason. I was accepted to a school where grades make up 30%, interview is 40%, and EC/volunteer make up the last 30%. You really think as long as you have 30/30 in gpa and mcat the adcom will just forgive having no ECs? Your delusion about the application process may also contribute to you being on the outside looking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Perhaps your attitude is part of the reason. I was accepted to a school where grades make up 30%, interview is 40%, and EC/volunteer make up the last 30%. You really think as long as you have 30/30 in gpa and mcat the adcom will just forgive having no ECs? Your delusion about the application process may also contribute to you being on the outside looking in. Do you not know how to read? There isn't one person on this thread who had advocated doing NO EC's so I am not sure why you bring up this point (think you might have earlier as well). Can you at least argue a point in context please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Do you not know how to read? Do I know how to read? How childish. Add maturity to to the list along with attitude and delusions about the application process. I refer to post 17, 19 and 26, but I'll rephase NO EC's to minimal EC's. They're important, as are gpa and mcat. A good balance and high scores in all categories is what will get you into medicine. There isn't really much room to slack in any category with such stiff competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Do I know how to read? How childish. Add maturity to to the list along with attitude and delusions about the application process. I refer to post 17, 19 and 26, but I'll rephase NO EC's to minimal EC's. They're important, as are gpa and mcat. A good balance and high scores in all categories is what will get you into medicine. There isn't really much room to slack in any category with such stiff competition. You really think as long as you have 30/30 in gpa and mcat the adcom will just forgive having no ECs? Yes, I stand by my statement of learning to read. No one in this thread has advocated for doing no EC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysine Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Yes, I stand by my statement of learning to read. No one in this thread has advocated for doing no EC's. #17: "Lots of others have never volunteered anywhere." #19: "What I can tell you from experience is that there are people who are accepted without volunteering..." I'm not sure it is me that can't read. Do I need to type in a larger font to prove my point to you? I'm not going to argue with you any more, for now I'm happy knowing that you won't be my classmate in medical school this September (I hope the slides have huge font so I can read them!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryastark Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Sorry for intruding... I was just reading through the thread and wanted to say hats off to those of you that are parents and going through all of this. You truly are amazing individuals! I don't have kids, but I've seen how much time/patience/energy it takes from afar, so the fact that you you find the time to apply/go through med school is truly amazing. That being said... can everyone please stop bickering? There seem to have been a series of misunderstandings, and at this point it seems that the same points are going across over and over. I don't think its helping Birdy and I think she has enough other things on her plate. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Henderson Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Sorry for intruding... I was just reading through the thread and wanted to say hats off to those of you that are parents and going through all of this. You truly are amazing individuals! I don't have kids, but I've seen how much time/patience/energy it takes from afar, so the fact that you you find the time to apply/go through med school is truly amazing. That being said... can everyone please stop bickering? There seem to have been a series of misunderstandings, and at this point it seems that the same points are going across over and over. I don't think its helping Birdy and I think she has enough other things on her plate. Thanks! My sentiments exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Perhaps it is time to close the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch3wbacca1991 Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Yes, I stand by my statement of learning to read. No one in this thread has advocated for doing no EC's. hey can you respond to my private message. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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