justletmein Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 A very interesting article from the medical post.... see the chart posted below. Overhead costs study adjusts relativity winners A new study by Toronto researchers brings evidence to an area where startlingly little exists: variations in overhead costs between specialties. Using data from the 2010 National Physician Survey and the Institute for Clinical and Evaluative Sciences, the researchers estimated net physician income by specialty in Ontario. While factoring overhead into the payment equation for doctors changed estimates of incomes, discrepancies in relative pay remained between specialties. For example, the net income for a radiation oncologist was just under $400,000, and for a neurologist, about half that. The lead author on the study, Dr. Jeremy Petch (PhD), a researcher at the Li Ka Shing Knowledge Institute at Toronto’s St. Michael’s Hospital, said: “There definitely remained a considerable variation in income, though there was some move in the relative ranking.” For example, ophthalmology—which ranked second in remuneration when only public payments were considered—dropped to eighth once overhead was factored in. Meanwhile, hospital-based specialities such as radiation oncology and emergency medicine moved up on the pay scale. On what prompted the study, Dr. Petch said he and his co-authors were responding to the paucity of data in this area. “We were looking into it because 20% of all the tax dollars we spend on health care go to paying doctors.” He added: “We wanted to better understand the effects (of overhead).” We need “better data in the public sphere as we plan for health care,” said Dr. Petch. DISCUSS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renin Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 IS it just me, or do I not see psychiatry on there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gametime24 Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 IS it just me, or do I not see psychiatry on there? Or neurosurgery? I think a few others are missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justletmein Posted December 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 they probably didnt have enough data for those specialties... this was based on a physician survey so not the world's best data collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gametime24 Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 they probably didnt have enough data for those specialties... this was based on a physician survey so not the world's best data collection. +1 10 char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyMax Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Anesthesia - $0, unless, of course, you count the cost of obtaining/maintaining licensure (varies by province) and/or hospital privileges (usually $50 for a certificate of professional conduct from the CPSO, anyway)! Not sure what the clowns who answered that survey are paying for, unless it is a private pain clinic or something stupid like that- suckaaaaaaaaas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Can we describe what is meant by overhead costs? I suspect this includes: 1) office lease/rental 2) Staff salaries - if you have your own staff (i.e. medical secretary, RN/LPNs) 3) Medical supplies 4) Equipment purchases/lease/rental Would overhead also include medical insurance? such that insurance for Ob, general surg. eat into overhead cost much more than the less pricey insurance for say family med.? Beef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Medward Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Dermatology, one of the coveted ROAD specialties, has mean net income barely above FM, and that with a considerably longer residency. Is derm really worth gunning for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Dermatology, one of the coveted ROAD specialties, has mean net income barely above FM, and that with a considerably longer residency. Is derm really worth gunning for? The chart only covers public payments. A large portion of potential Derm income is private practice. That's where the real money is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rswim Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Same thing (private $$) goes for Ophthalmology - lasik 2x/week will double the earnings shown above. Looks like Anesthesia still loses out on the ROAD zoooot!! Oh well at least its still the most interesting!! (bias obviously)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Same thing (private $$) goes for Ophthalmology - lasik 2x/week will double the earnings shown above. Looks like Anesthesia still loses out on the ROAD zoooot!! Oh well at least its still the most interesting!! (bias obviously)! If you can get to do lasik. There are market saturation issues there (notice how the prices for lasik are falling). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauru Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Anesthesia - $0, unless, of course, you count the cost of obtaining/maintaining licensure (varies by province) and/or hospital privileges (usually $50 for a certificate of professional conduct from the CPSO, anyway)! Not sure what the clowns who answered that survey are paying for, unless it is a private pain clinic or something stupid like that- suckaaaaaaaaas! What's the culture like in Anesthesiology? Do you feel you fit in well in that specialty, personality wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauru Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 If you can get to do lasik. There are market saturation issues there (notice how the prices for lasik are falling). Sounds like a win for consumers. Perhaps price will soon reflect the marginal cost of the procedure, which I understand is pretty low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Sounds like a win for consumers. Perhaps price will soon reflect the marginal cost of the procedure, which I understand is pretty low. exactly - there was a bit of an artificial monopoly on things for a while but things are pretty unstable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecogstage5 Posted November 26, 2013 Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 I wonder if these overheads are only for specialists who work in their own practice outside of a hospital setting or are simply an average for all practicing specialist who took part in the poll. I could only guess that most neurologists in an urban setting practice within a hospital and consequently I presume their overheads would be less than those practicing within their own independent practice. For the specialists who practice within a hospital, what are the sources of these overheads that rival those of independent practices? Does a hospital cardiologist for example have to pay for any of the resources he uses? What is the source of the anesthesiologists 50k overhead as shown in this study? I am not well versed in this respect and any input would be both appreciated and interesting. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economist Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Emergency is surprisingly low... And they probably dont have much private billing either I assume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futureGP Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Emergency is surprisingly low... And they probably dont have much private billing either I assume? most emerge docs get paid/hr so i presume no private billing, unless ur running ur own clinic as 2+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 most emerge docs get paid/hr so i presume no private billing, unless ur running ur own clinic as 2+1 yeah basically it is just shift work. Makes it easier in a lot of ways, although of course there is the loss of some flexibility in the tax planning I think(?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 most emerge docs get paid/hr so i presume no private billing, unless ur running ur own clinic as 2+1 Different ERs have different set ups. Some are entirely fee for service while others have a blended hourly rate + percentage of billings. I am unaware of any that are entirely an hourly rate, but I suppose that is possible somewhere. Being aware of the financial aspect of a career is certainly important. But hopefully people will pick areas that interest them. Fee schedules and practice set-ups change. When you get to the end of your residency, finances will become more clear. And as long as the career path chosen was something of interest, then people will be happy. Nobody is going to starve in medicine. But some specialties are more hands on in terms of running a business than others. So if running a business is not so interesting to you, then certainly take that into consideration in choosing your specialty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futureGP Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 Different ERs have different set ups. Some are entirely fee for service while others have a blended hourly rate + percentage of billings. I am unaware of any that are entirely an hourly rate, but I suppose that is possible somewhere. Being aware of the financial aspect of a career is certainly important. But hopefully people will pick areas that interest them. Fee schedules and practice set-ups change. When you get to the end of your residency, finances will become more clear. And as long as the career path chosen was something of interest, then people will be happy. Nobody is going to starve in medicine. But some specialties are more hands on in terms of running a business than others. So if running a business is not so interesting to you, then certainly take that into consideration in choosing your specialty. so do FFP emerge docs pay overhead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubcredfox Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 I have yet to come across an ER that charges overhead. The model of payment is province dependent and/or ER dependent. Pay can vary quite a bit, especially when considering volume of patients seen. Shop around. There is a shadow billing split for those paid hourly. The percentage varies based on things like season, volume seen in the ER, holidays etc. Basically, the result of obfuscated and convoluted formula dreamed up by the pencil pushers. Hard to quote a general rate, but anything from 10-25% is what I have seen. You will pay overhead for billing clerks unless you do this yourself as an ER doc. Most billing is usually submitted free of charge as part of the agreement with the hospital, but there is some which is not. I don't know how this varies between provinces or hospitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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