Physiotherapy for Year 2014

[Rottweiler]

I'm shocked by the ever increasing GPA cut-offs and the fact that it is happening annually. It's like the year of your birth could determine your career because only a couple of years back, someone with a gpa of 3.68 could enter Western PT with flying colors and now some with a 3.84 can get rejected by the same program. What do you think the GPA cut-offs for Ontario universities will be for the next session (2014/2015) for physiotherapy?

[future_doc]

Isn't this due to increasing competitiveness brought about by increasing numbers of stronger students applying? Admissions acts accordingly by raising the bar.

[Mhunte03]

I feel the same way - I mean last year I still wouldn't have had the top GPA by any means - but I mean the fact that Macs cut off for an interview invite went from a 3.48 to a 3.61 (for OT) in one year seems huge to me.

[eLg701]

I agree the cutoffs are getting crazier every year. I'm actually nervous about Western's cutoffs this cycle. Anyone have a good estimate based on last year? I don't even know if 3.83 is good enough to get a first round offer, although I heard their waitlist moves alot. I guess I just have to wait until May.

[Guest Physioprospect]

I agree the cutoffs are getting crazier every year. I'm actually nervous about Western's cutoffs this cycle. Anyone have a good estimate based on last year? I don't even know if 3.83 is good enough to get a first round offer, although I heard their waitlist moves alot. I guess I just have to wait until May.

 

You might not get in 1st round but you will def get in off the waitlist I bet.

[Dr_Scully]

A few years ago there weren't as many people getting advanced (bachelors, masters, phd) degrees. I think it has more to do with the Universities accepting more and more students and awarding more degrees every year. More people with bachelors and maybe also in combination with not getting jobs after their degrees, means more people applying.

 

One of my professors told me last year that the GPA to get into the Biology program at my university from high school had dropped significantly.

As far as the GPA cut-off going up each year for us, I wonder if the universities are making it easier to earn these degrees if they're taking in people who formerly would not have been qualified enough? If you're taking in people who wouldn't have been able to hack it previously, you'll have to make it easier on them.

 

Also, I was a TA for a few years during my M.Sc. so I do not agree that there are more qualified students. In all my classes I had a few great students, a few mediocre, and most were average. There were a few groups I had that did better than others, but in the end it was pretty even and balanced in terms of grades & quality of work.

[Guest Physioprospect]

 

Also, I was a TA for a few years during my M.Sc. so I do not agree that there are more qualified students. In all my classes I had a few great students, a few mediocre, and most were average. There were a few groups I had that did better than others, but in the end it was pretty even and balanced in terms of grades & quality of work.

 

I would say that better students are applying to PT these days since it is a masters program. Top students with a undergrad degree are realizing that theres not much they can do without further education so they aim for Physio.

[Pink Tulip]

It's a part of the push for higher education by high schools and the ease it is to get a degree now. A bachelor's degree used to mean a lot. Now it barely means anything. It just reflects how we've grown as a society to one that values formal education greatly and believes everyone should have access to it. You can be a terrible student and get into university now. It's just how it is. Ontario is horrible for this. You go to any other province with less population and the gpa is way lower. Look at Alberta. Their cutoff is around 3.5 for PT. I know it sucks but unfortunately it's just too competitive now for some applicants. I doubt it will get better or cutoff soon. I think it is scary to think that a PT average is as high as a med school average now. Isn't part of the reason people go into PT that they want a different study route and an easier load in their undergraduate years to do things they enjoy? You definitely dont need to be as smart as a doctor to be a PT, so for me it's silly that it is this high now.

 

For Western, this is what they get for being THE backup school. No interviews, no essays. Anyone can apply as a backup for a small fee. If they put that and required volunteer hours back in you would see a significant drop in applications and gpa scores.

[Dr_Scully]

I would say that better students are applying to PT these days since it is a masters program. Top students with a undergrad degree are realizing that theres not much they can do without further education so they aim for Physio.

 

Yes, I agree many applying are indeed excellent students - but where are the increasing numbers of applicants with these A+ averages coming from? I just didn't see the same increase in grades when I was TAing.

 

All of a sudden out of Mac's ~1300 or so applicants for PT, the top 300 had over 3.78, when 2 years ago it was something like 3.68. It's not like Mac suddenly got 3000 people applying for PT this year. The numbers of applicants has gone up a bit, but I can't see how the GPA cutoff can jump in such a short period of time unless the universities are handing out more A's at the bachelor level.

[Guest Physioprospect]

Yes, I agree many applying are indeed excellent students - but where are the increasing numbers of applicants with these A+ averages coming from? I just didn't see the same increase in grades when I was TAing.

 

All of a sudden out of Mac's ~1300 or so applicants for PT, the top 300 had over 3.78, when 2 years ago it was something like 3.68. It's not like Mac suddenly got 3000 people applying for PT this year. The numbers of applicants has gone up a bit, but I can't see how the GPA cutoff can jump in such a short period of time unless the universities are handing out more A's at the bachelor level.

 

I think its a symptom of the economy, theres just a lack of jobs in every sector so top students that would work in a lab, for the government etc, are now applying to PT. Also I think with PT moving towards a better evidence base practice the profession is becoming more popular.

[Guest Physioprospect]

It's a part of the push for higher education by high schools and the ease it is to get a degree now. A bachelor's degree used to mean a lot. Now it barely means anything. It just reflects how we've grown as a society to one that values formal education greatly and believes everyone should have access to it. You can be a terrible student and get into university now. It's just how it is. Ontario is horrible for this. You go to any other province with less population and the gpa is way lower. Look at Alberta. Their cutoff is around 3.5 for PT. I know it sucks but unfortunately it's just too competitive now for some applicants. I doubt it will get better or cutoff soon. I think it is scary to think that a PT average is as high as a med school average now. Isn't part of the reason people go into PT that they want a different study route and an easier load in their undergraduate years to do things they enjoy? You definitely dont need to be as smart as a doctor to be a PT, so for me it's silly that it is this high now.

 

For Western, this is what they get for being THE backup school. No interviews, no essays. Anyone can apply as a backup for a small fee. If they put that and required volunteer hours back in you would see a significant drop in applications and gpa scores.

 

Dont have to be as smart as you do to be a doctor? They are very different with different knowledge requirements. Very smart people go into PT. I know absolute morons (my friends) that have gone into medicine and are just like any other GP.

[Pink Tulip]

To be a good doctor, you require more knowledge than a PT has. So if you want to be good at what you do, have to be smart. PT needs a lot more than smarts and uses other skill areas in its practice. And I am talking book smart here. You dont memorize nearly as much material as a PT as you would being a doctor, so your book smarts only go so far.

[Guest Physioprospect]

To be a good doctor, you require more knowledge than a PT has. So if you want to be good at what you do, have to be smart. PT needs a lot more than smarts and uses other skill areas in its practice. And I am talking book smart here. You dont memorize nearly as much material as a PT as you would being a doctor, so your book smarts only go so far.

 

You may have to memorize a lot but like my resident friend just said, he had all the crap he had to memorize in his first 2 years of med school he uses 10% of it now. There no point remembering glycolysis and 1000 protein ligands, whereas in a compressed PT program they dont teach stuff that will not be used in practice. As a primiary health care provider a PT has to know how to recognize a ton of diseases outside of their scope of practice that they will refer on.

[OT16]

Isn't this due to increasing competitiveness brought about by increasing numbers of stronger students applying? Admissions acts accordingly by raising the bar.

 

I doubt it has to do with stronger students. It has to do with an invalid measure of performance falsely being used as a measure of aptitude in rehabilitation. It's purely an easy way for assessors to sort through applicants I. The fastes way possible. This sounds like sour grapes but I managed a 3.73 while working full time and part time as an RMT, 3 years as a therapist in the OHL, going to school full time while raising 2 children. I have worked in physiotherapy clinics for 11 years and somehow I am not a highly qualified candidate according to U of T denial letter because I don't have a 3.8. GPA is not indicative of a quality candidate. Yeah I'm bitter I admit, I think the selection process is a joke but it is what it is and we are all treated equally but it is not a valid method of selection. On that note, those that did get an invite somewhere, get it done, prosper and strive to be good at it because there are those who won't get the chance that would love to have a chance.

[Pink Tulip]

Unfortunately, schools just don't see that way anymore. It IS really dumb. Queen's will take all your experience into consideration. Western is worse than UfT, they take nothing at all. Really sad for the future of our healthcare.

[Guest Physioprospect]

I doubt it has to do with stronger students. It has to do with an invalid measure of performance falsely being used as a measure of aptitude in rehabilitation. It's purely an easy way for assessors to sort through applicants I. The fastes way possible. This sounds like sour grapes but I managed a 3.73 while working full time and part time as an RMT, 3 years as a therapist in the OHL, going to school full time while raising 2 children. I have worked in physiotherapy clinics for 11 years and somehow I am not a highly qualified candidate according to U of T denial letter because I don't have a 3.8. GPA is not indicative of a quality candidate. Yeah I'm bitter I admit, I think the selection process is a joke but it is what it is and we are all treated equally but it is not a valid method of selection. On that note, those that did get an invite somewhere, get it done, prosper and strive to be good at it because there are those who won't get the chance that would love to have a chance.

 

Unfortunately until theres some sort of entrance exam to level the playing field theres no other way to weed through 1400 applicants. There definitely needs to be one tho because someone who does an easy degree with no experience does not deserve to be at UWO over someone like yourself. Its too bad the field doesnt get more attention and funding for these sorts of issues.

[medsoul]

"It's a part of the push for higher education by high schools and the ease it is to get a degree now. A bachelor's degree used to mean a lot. Now it barely means anything. It just reflects how we've grown as a society to one that values formal education greatly and believes everyone should have access to it. You can be a terrible student and get into university now. It's just how it is. Ontario is horrible for this. You go to any other province with less population and the gpa is way lower. Look at Alberta. Their cutoff is around 3.5 for PT. I know it sucks but unfortunately it's just too competitive now for some applicants. I doubt it will get better or cutoff soon. I think it is scary to think that a PT average is as high as a med school average now. Isn't part of the reason people go into PT that they want a different study route and an easier load in their undergraduate years to do things they enjoy? You definitely dont need to be as smart as a doctor to be a PT, so for me it's silly that it is this high now."

I agree 100% with the above. Coming out with and 86% ORPAS GPA, I have Medicine as an option to consider. Maybe it is time physiotherapists start making at least half of what Doctors do.

[OT16]

That's a bit anecdotal. Some may use PT purely to get a Masters degree quickly. But I wouldn't say you have to be "smarter" to be a doctor, you just have to memorize more. Being a good doctor relies more on your deductive reasoning . I guess it depends on your definition of smart. In my 11 years in rehab I have dealt with some pretty thick headed md's. My buddy graduated and is a surgeon now, he said he has learned more in 1 year in practice than he learned in school. It doesn't matter what degree you take, all you're doing is memorizing not learning . The real learning takes place outside the classroom

[medsoul]

Good point, I should have said I disagree that being an MD means you are smarter academically. Plus, I believe physiotherapy is evolving into more advanced discpiline every year and I think there is a lot of in-class and out-of class learning in every healthcare profession, that is the only way you practice safely and benefit the patients.

[PhysioBabe]

I doubt it has to do with stronger students. It has to do with an invalid measure of performance falsely being used as a measure of aptitude in rehabilitation. It's purely an easy way for assessors to sort through applicants I. The fastes way possible. This sounds like sour grapes but I managed a 3.73 while working full time and part time as an RMT, 3 years as a therapist in the OHL, going to school full time while raising 2 children. I have worked in physiotherapy clinics for 11 years and somehow I am not a highly qualified candidate according to U of T denial letter because I don't have a 3.8. GPA is not indicative of a quality candidate. Yeah I'm bitter I admit, I think the selection process is a joke but it is what it is and we are all treated equally but it is not a valid method of selection. On that note, those that did get an invite somewhere, get it done, prosper and strive to be good at it because there are those who won't get the chance that would love to have a chance.

 

I think physioprospect makes a great point... I would gladly take an entrance examination to show my aptitude with ethical decision-making, knowledge of the field, and show how passionate I am about getting into PT!

 

I was literally a couple spots away from getting into McMaster last year (they inform you of where you are in the waiting list). This year, I wasn't invited for an interview. As you can imagine, I was extremely upset to hear the news. I was looking forward to interviewing again, now that I'm much more confident with the MMI process. For those that have an interview, congratulations, do not take it for granted... the applicant pool changes from year to year.... prepare and practice now, bc you may not get another chance next year! Good luck! Crossing my fingers for Queen's & McGill!

[Rottweiler]

It's a part of the push for higher education by high schools and the ease it is to get a degree now. A bachelor's degree used to mean a lot. Now it barely means anything. It just reflects how we've grown as a society to one that values formal education greatly and believes everyone should have access to it. You can be a terrible student and get into university now. It's just how it is. Ontario is horrible for this. You go to any other province with less population and the gpa is way lower. Look at Alberta. Their cutoff is around 3.5 for PT. I know it sucks but unfortunately it's just too competitive now for some applicants. I doubt it will get better or cutoff soon. I think it is scary to think that a PT average is as high as a med school average now. Isn't part of the reason people go into PT that they want a different study route and an easier load in their undergraduate years to do things they enjoy? You definitely dont need to be as smart as a doctor to be a PT, so for me it's silly that it is this high now.

 

For Western, this is what they get for being THE backup school. No interviews, no essays. Anyone can apply as a backup for a small fee. If they put that and required volunteer hours back in you would see a significant drop in applications and gpa scores.

 

It's frustrating. My friend entered UofT just last year with a 3.71 GPA. This year a person with 3.74 is not even looked at? Just where are they going to draw the line? I feel like in a few decades, the world is going to have to come up with a grade better than "A+".

 

What do you guys think the cut offs for UofT & Mac will be for 2014?

[Pink Tulip]

I feel it's going to hit 3.8 minimum next year. Maybe plateau very quickly after that. Western will be 3.9 though knowing them...

[lulululu]

are you guys talking about gpa on a maximum 4 or 4.3 scale?

[Dr_Scully]

Ontario uses the 4.0 scale

[Mhunte03]

four years after grade 13 was eliminated (when that cohort graduated with degrees) some of those schools hit the 3.8 range minimum for PT according to supervisors at my placement. So it is not surprising that it has steadily climbed back up that way - with the number of people graduating with degrees probably getting closer to what it was that year - if not more.