plugin Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 Or at least not 'family hostile'... Middle of med, will have a kid by the time or early into residency. Am trying to decide between gen surg and something less demanding like GP plus surgical or obstetrical skills. Obviously the latter is shorter, but leaves me very limited. Are there some schools in Canada who's residency programs are less likely to have me not see my wife and kids for 5 years? I know residency will be hard no matter what. I'm not afraid of hard work, just trying to make the most educated decision. I'm looking to practice community gen surg in a town of 20-100,000, so not having big-school research heavy programs are fine. Am looking at places like NOSM, sask, MUN etc. Any and all thoughts appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larrivee Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 I am also interested in this EXACT same question. Looking forward to some responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnmaple Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 In terms of overall atmosphere and understanding, the most family-friendly GS program that I am aware of is also one of the more research-intensive big schools. That tone is set, I find, by the PD and also by the dean, either of which can change before/after starting residency. But some programs are more stable than others in that area. City factors, like how busy is call (aka how tired will you be), how close can you live to the hospital, how much home call vs in-house, how often are you required to do rotations in other cities, etc. are worth considering also. Is it a specialty where you'll be required to do a fellowship afterwards to get a job, and if so, can you do it in that city or will you be packing up the family and moving to another city for 1-2 years before packing up again to move to yet another city to actually settle and work. There's my generic advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 I had thought I had responded to this earlier, but I'd actually recommend against smaller programs as they may be more "service-oriented". You will get excellent training to be a community surgeon even at more research-oriented programs, and larger programs will generally have more flexibility when it comes to time off. For example, while it's true that UofT is among the more ostensibly research-oriented, you also would be staying more or less in one spot throughout residency, whereas a program like Dal's shunts residents off to New Brunswick for several months each year in the first few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock2doc Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 I had thought I had responded to this earlier, but I'd actually recommend against smaller programs as they may be more "service-oriented". You will get excellent training to be a community surgeon even at more research-oriented programs, and larger programs will generally have more flexibility when it comes to time off. For example, while it's true that UofT is among the more ostensibly research-oriented, you also would be staying more or less in one spot throughout residency, whereas a program like Dal's shunts residents off to New Brunswick for several months each year in the first few years. No need to bash on New Brunswick!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 No but it can suck to spend 3 months in Saint John by yourself if your family is back in Halifax (even if you don't have kids). The Regional is a great place to work, but I have met at least one Dal grad tell me that all the moving around was a major reason he didn't rank the program very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock2doc Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Fair enough! That's a valid point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flasses Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 It's true that my friends doing general surgery at UofT spend almost their entire program at the major Toronto hospitals. It's also true that they work ~110-120 hours per week. For 5+ years. And they spend the remainder of their free time studying or doing research papers. Which explains why so many of them transferred out of gen Sx or at least applied to. Doesn't sound very conducive for people with children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastalslacker Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Finishing up a 5 year (non gen surg) surgical speciality now, and have had kids since the start of residency. Couple things I think are important: 1. Rotations spent in other cities suck for your family. The dirty not-so-secret is that you will enjoy sleeping better for a bit and your significant other will resent that... 2. "Family friendly" doesn't mean anything anymore. If you want to take time off for maternity or paternity leave you can. You will have to make up time at the end of residency (in most cases; I know a few exceptions). 3. Something not everyone considers - what is your commute? If it takes you 10 minutes to get home from work (my situation) versus 45 minutes that adds up to 2.5 hours a week, or, well over 100 hours a year. That's time I get to spend with my kids before dinner. Assume you'll be getting up early enough in the morning that you'll beat the traffic wherever you are. 4. Where do you want to live now that you have kids? We wanted a yard for them to play in, and a neighborhood with playgrounds and schools. This is more affordable in some residency locations than others. 5. How much call will you do and how onerous is the call. Parents are more tired than non-parents. Let me rephrase that, non-parents have more options for when they can catch up on their sleep. Weekend sleep ins and coming home post call to sleep all day and catch up are going to end for you soon. Night float is good. 6. Without question your quality of life and that of your family will be better during a family medicine residency. Way, way better. You will also have more flexibility and free time when you are done. I would not make a different decision if I were doing things over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 2. "Family friendly" doesn't mean anything anymore. If you want to take time off for maternity or paternity leave you can. You will have to make up time at the end of residency (in most cases; I know a few exceptions). According to Pairo it's only Ottawa and queens that force everyone to make up any time missed. Other schools seem to say that less than 3 months is up to the program, which can say you dont need to make it up (which also fits into the royal college guidelines re:leave) I don't know about other provinces. And I don't know how current said info is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastalslacker Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 According to Pairo it's only Ottawa and queens that force everyone to make up any time missed. Other schools seem to say that less than 3 months is up to the program, which can say you dont need to make it up (which also fits into the royal college guidelines re:leave) I don't know about other provinces. And I don't know how current said info is. Those bastards.......I only took 2 weeks each time because I didn't want to stick around after residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 Those bastards.......I only took 2 weeks each time because I didn't want to stick around after residency. I'm sure the hospitals/universities don't advertise that fact. Wouldn't want the indentured servants away from work for too long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 And in any case, it's up to the program's discretion to allow you to take that time off without making it up. If not, you'll see "fellows" sticking around 2-3 months after July, then leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnmaple Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 And in any case, it's up to the program's discretion to allow you to take that time off without making it up. If not, you'll see "fellows" sticking around 2-3 months after July, then leaving. And the dean. If the dean says no, your program's opinion doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartmed Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 The U of A has a "rural" program. You do some rotations in the city (vasc, onc) but mostly it's in Grande Prairie which is small and very family friendly. Because you are the only resident there is A LOT of flexibility and the guy there seems really happy. He has kids. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larrivee Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 The U of A has a "rural" program. You do some rotations in the city (vasc, onc) but mostly it's in Grande Prairie which is small and very family friendly. Because you are the only resident there is A LOT of flexibility and the guy there seems really happy. He has kids. Hope that helps. Hey, looking on the faculty of surgery U of A website I could not find any information on this rural program you speak of. Do you have a link you could paste here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larrivee Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that surgery is the antithesis of anything considered remotely "family friendly". Antithesis or not, there are those that want both surgery and a family. Therefore, If a spectrum of family friendliness within surgery exists I'd like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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