Surgery Residency/Future in Canada vs US

[thewhitecoat]

Hi all,

 

I'm a Canadian citizen who attended Top10 US college and a mid level (LCME-approved) US medical school. Currently I'm a M3. I'm interested in orthopaedic, plastic, and general surgery as possible career interests.

 

Up until recently, I've always planned to go the H1b route and hope for the best in terms of matching. Given that I've got a decent app (Step 1 250+, plenty of surgical papers/presentations/posters, strong service ECs, statewide athletic achievements, etc), and that I'd be considered a US grad, I thought I had a decent chance at landing a position somewhere on the west coast.

 

Recently however, I've been seriously considering returning back to BC /Canada for residency training as I'm getting tired of constantly fighting the "uphill battle" of employment as an international student. I'm starting to see that physician lifestyle is better up north and that the pay is similar all things considered (please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

My question is how difficult would it be to land a residency in my preferred fields (ortho/plastics, then general) in Canada, given that all of my post high-school education is American, my stats, and that I can participate in the 1st iteration of CaRMS? Would I be treated as an equal applicant as a Canadian MG?

 

I've also love to hear some opinions on the pros/cons of this decision.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

thewhitecoat

[Med0123]

plastics: extremely competitive up here, if you have the extracurricular it will help but it is my understanding that applicants usually make connections with PDs before applying

ortho: doable

 

I am not sure in which iteration you'll be eligible. 1st iteration : Canadian Medical Graduates and you are not one.

[futureGP]

plastics: extremely competitive up here, if you have the extracurricular it will help but it is my understanding that applicants usually make connections with PDs before applying

ortho: doable

 

I am not sure in which iteration you'll be eligible. 1st iteration : Canadian Medical Graduates and you are not one.

 

USMG is eligible for 1st iteration

 

unless he's in DO school

[NLengr]

I will also confirm that you are eligible for the first round. US MD school grads are considered CMG's for CaRMS.

 

All fields you list have more applicants than spots. The most important thing is to get as much elective time in Canada as possible.

 

Also, three specialties is too many to try and match to. You need to narrow down things so you are focused on one, with a back up. G Sx is the most viable back up since it traditionally is the least competative of the three.

[thewhitecoat]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

I noticed that several places (ie: UBC) have a "UBC med students > Cdn Med Schools > US Med Schools" priority list when it comes to getting elective spots. How much will this impede my chances? I'm worried that all the spots would get filled up before I get a chance to sign up.

 

In general, am I making a financially sound and advantageous decision to come back? I know this is a very subjective question, but I'd like to hear the opinions how the surgeon job market will change in next 6-8 years given the current lack of employment positions. Is it "better" to be a surgeon in Canada?

[leviathan]

UBC can be very tough to secure electives,. even for Canadian students. You might have better luck finding electives out east, but obviously at least try to get a spot at UBC. Letters from staff / PD anywhere in Canada will be helpful. It's a small community and lots of people know each other.

 

Option C: just marry an American and get your green card.

[Med0123]

In general, am I making a financially sound and advantageous decision to come back? I know this is a very subjective question, but I'd like to hear the opinions how the surgeon job market will change in next 6-8 years given the current lack of employment positions. Is it "better" to be a surgeon in Canada?

 

Nobody can predict how the job market will evolve in the next years but it is my understanding as a surgical resident that attending spots available for senior residents are becoming scarce.

 

Nonetheless it should not affect your decision to come back in Canada as you will be able to find a position in US after residency if the situation doesn't progress in the right direction up here

[NLengr]

To be honest, by the time you are done, the market will probably be improving. My specialty is running numbers re:manpower, and from what I understand they are expecting a boomer retirement wave to start around 5 yrs out.

 

Besides, you could still go back to the US to work if you wanted to.

[thewhitecoat]

Thanks again for the sage advice.

 

If my goal is simply to become obtain an ortho residency, where would I have a better chance of matching, assuming the same set of strong ECs/research?

 

Option 1: Do bunch of Canadian ortho electives, and hope Canadian home field advantage works out. I guess the biggest disadvantage here is that I'm coming from a US school and that I would lack familiarity with my potential CDN letter writers.

 

or

 

Option 2: Take Step 2 & 3 to be eligible for H1b, do a bunch of US ortho electives and hope for the best. Biggest disadvantage seems to be the lack of citizenship (how important is this for a field like ortho?)

[Knightmd]

Fact 1: If you gun for both Plastics & Ortho, you'll get neither.

 

Fact 2: The two are quite different from each other, and the fact you want either might indicate you need to do a little more soul searching; know what you really want.

 

Fact 3: It's *infinitely* easier to match in the US, even if you're a Canadian citizen. There are just simply way, way more spots down there. You'll get your American Board certification and will be able to practice in either countries, no biggie. It doesn't make sense to *waste* your elective opportunities in Canada when you could have them done in the US to have a better chance at matching there, where it's easier.

 

Fact 4: General Surgery PDs will shun you if they see evidence of interest in a surgical subspecialty. They will *know* GS is your backup, and they'll either rank you really low or not rank you at all. They don't want someone who'll leave them for another sub-specialty program the second a vacancy is available.

[ferrocene]

I agree with Knightmd's 'Fact 1' but I don't know how much exposure Knightmd has to the American residency match, but ortho and plastics are extremely competitive in the US. If you want to go into something like ortho or plastics, your objective is to match, period, so applying to a ton of Canadian and American programs and doing a lot of away rotations for the Canadian ones makes more sense or else you're just overestimating yourself. Also, as the OP probably knows well already American PDs have a different attitude towards aways than Canadian ones and the OP can definitely afford to spend a lot of elective time up north.