meganjoa Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 That is funny, cause biology and medicine are pretty heavy memorization. Biochem courses are pretty good at mac, and they give good foundational knowledge which are essential (you need to memorize the facts and know them well before applying them!) If coming out a biochem course and you do not know what a kinase or phosphrylase is, then the biochem course is truly a failure. maybe, but I took biochem 2EE3 at mac and didnt take anything away from the course, however, i admit that the course was a failure. I cant recall whether or not we learned about kinases in our hth sci biochem course but I suppose we did, since it is something that we most likely came across in our research (and we had to give presentations and answer questions, so we had to understand the content, not just memorize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainaxe46 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 when the lowest marks in your toughest classes are 3.3s and 3.7s, you know youre having a good time. Precisely! if a B+ is a low grade then the majority of the class is performing at a higher level so let's say the class average is an A-.. A great program challenges its students and not maintain high school grade inflation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganjoa Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 it isnt difficult to do well in 1st year chem when its the only midterm and exam you have. it isnt crunched in between other tests/exams like it is for life sci. it would be a fail if you didnt do well for your only exam of the term. that's not entirely true...I actually had 3 exams in the first term of my first year (chemistry, math and cell bio). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace2012 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 maybe, but I took biochem 2EE3 at mac and didnt take anything away from the course, however, i admit that the course was a failure. I cant recall whether or not we learned about kinases in our hth sci biochem course but I suppose we did, since it is something that we most likely came across in our research (and we had to give presentations and answer questions, so we had to understand the content, not just memorize it. I understand 2EE3 might just be memorization, but let's not forget that a lot of health scis took that course since it is an easy elective. The ability to memorize is vital if you want to go into medicine, plus its not like hth scis are hard core scientists who want to do critical thinking through a lab or genetics course. First year chem was not that difficult, but some people do struggle with it since we have to adjust to multiple tests in one week + assignments+ essays + lab reports and there are no group work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicalmandan Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I understand 2EE3 might just be memorization, but let's not forget that a lot of health scis took that course since it is an easy elective. The ability to memorize is vital if you want to go into medicine, plus its not like hth scis are hard core scientists who want to do critical thinking through a lab or genetics course. First year chem was not that difficult, but some people do struggle with it since we have to adjust to multiple tests in one week + assignments+ essays + lab reports and there are no group work. they were also able to gain waivers for 2ee3 to avoid taking organic chem (which was the pre-requisite) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganjoa Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 they were also able to gain waivers for 2ee3 to avoid taking organic chem (which was the pre-requisite) that's true, so there might be some sort of entitlement to being in hth sci, but i dont see how that makes the program 'easier'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlybutterfly Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 that's not entirely true...I actually had 3 exams in the first term of my first year (chemistry, math and cell bio). cellbio isnt during the exam period and the cellbio exam is given in advance to students (it was this year) so it is a bird exam. anyways, so you had 2 exams during the exam period. thats pretty much stress free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicalmandan Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 that's true, so there might be some sort of entitlement to being in hth sci, but i dont see how that makes the program 'easier'? You get to dodge organic chem which takes the lives of 10% of the first semester class (10% fail the the course and the course average is in the 60s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlybutterfly Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 You get to dodge organic chem which takes the lives of 10% of the first semester class (10% fail the the course and the course average is in the 60s) yea its bull that science students cant get a waiver for the biochem course yet healthscis can. i was pissed when i heard of this back in undergrad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganjoa Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 You get to dodge organic chem which takes the lives of 10% of the first semester class (10% fail the the course and the course average is in the 60s) haha that's true, regardless though, over half of hth scis end up taking organic chemistry at some point during their 4 years since it is a necessary prereq to some medical schools (in fact, out of the few dozen hth scis i have spoken to, i only know 1 or 2 students who didnt take organic chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganjoa Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 cellbio isnt during the exam period and the cellbio exam is given in advance to students (it was this year) so it is a bird exam. anyways, so you had 2 exams during the exam period. thats pretty much stress free. I guess that's a change that they recently implemented. In my defence though, when I took cell bio 4 years ago, the exam was scheduled during the exam period. Also, it was far from being a bird exam...the avg was in the low 70s...I believe it may be even lower this year (and there was no bell curve) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace2012 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I guess that's a change that they recently implemented. In my defence though, when I took cell bio 4 years ago, the exam was scheduled during the exam period. Also, it was far from being a bird exam...the avg was in the low 70s...I believe it may be even lower this year (and there was no bell curve) The real question is, what is the course average? I'll bet its >80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlybutterfly Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I guess that's a change that they recently implemented. In my defence though, when I took cell bio 4 years ago, the exam was scheduled during the exam period. Also, it was far from being a bird exam...the avg was in the low 70s...I believe it may be even lower this year (and there was no bell curve) the exam was given 2 months in advance this year. everyone got 90% on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganjoa Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 The real question is, what is the course average? I'll bet its >80 the avg was a 10 or an 11. but given the amount of time that we invested into the group projects, it was well deserved. we had >8hr long meetings every day that went on for weeks...if you spend that much time on ANY course, you should easily get an 11 if not a 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savac Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 health sci kids in my biochem class had never heard of a kinase or phosphorylase Coming from a program that was very heavy on biochemistry... I'm at a complete loss for words. A kinase is about as basic as you can get when it comes to (actual) biochemistry. (Edit: I guess I had a few words...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmira Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 This misunderstanding that arises concerning the amount of knowledge that BHSc students vs. every other science student must learn is, in my opinion, due to differences in the programs' teaching philosophies. What many people (unfortunately) also tend to forget is that there is another program at McMaster that focuses on the fundamental concepts of biological sciences -- i.e. Life Sciences. The fact that BHSc does not teach the same things as students in the Science faculty shouldn't come as a surprise to you; to judge this program based on the standards of your own is a bit close-minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace2012 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 This misunderstanding that arises concerning the amount of knowledge that BHSc students vs. every other science student must learn is, in my opinion, due to differences in the programs' teaching philosophies. What many people (unfortunately) also tend to forget is that there is another program at McMaster that focuses on the fundamental concepts of biological sciences -- i.e. Life Sciences. The fact that BHSc does not teach the same things as students in the Science faculty shouldn't come as a surprise to you; to judge this program based on the standards of your own is a bit close-minded. It is okay their program is unique and different and PBL etcc...., but this is also the same program that claims that they are just as rigorous as the life sciences program and claims that they are not really a premed program. This program is definitely designed for people getting into medical school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlybutterfly Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 the avg was a 10 or an 11. but given the amount of time that we invested into the group projects, it was well deserved. we had >8hr long meetings every day that went on for weeks...if you spend that much time on ANY course, you should easily get an 11 if not a 12. stop. i lived in mary keyes and shared many study rooms with hs grousp a few years and those meetings were 1 hr of work, 7 hrs on facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savac Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 This misunderstanding that arises concerning the amount of knowledge that BHSc students vs. every other science student must learn is, in my opinion, due to differences in the programs' teaching philosophies. What many people (unfortunately) also tend to forget is that there is another program at McMaster that focuses on the fundamental concepts of biological sciences -- i.e. Life Sciences. The fact that BHSc does not teach the same things as students in the Science faculty shouldn't come as a surprise to you; to judge this program based on the standards of your own is a bit close-minded. Perhaps you're right, but it just seems strange to me. From what I understand Mac Health Sci students take biochemistry at least one time. So it just makes me wonder what they're learning if they don't know what a kinase is. At least where I come from, that's either taught in first year bio or it's taught at the highschool level in special circumstances. It's also testable material on the MCAT if I recall correctly. I know that the health science students at my own school know some basic biochemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainaxe46 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 This misunderstanding that arises concerning the amount of knowledge that BHSc students vs. every other science student must learn is, in my opinion, due to differences in the programs' teaching philosophies. What many people (unfortunately) also tend to forget is that there is another program at McMaster that focuses on the fundamental concepts of biological sciences -- i.e. Life Sciences. The fact that BHSc does not teach the same things as students in the Science faculty shouldn't come as a surprise to you; to judge this program based on the standards of your own is a bit close-minded. There's no objection to innovative teaching especially to challenge the traditional didactic learning of the past. However, most object to the unrestrained grade inflation, and reduced course expectations. The legacy of the program is clearly evident given the number of applicants which apply each year. Would anyone seriously believe that the program would be nearly as competitive if the average of the graduating class was a B-? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin92 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 that's not entirely true...I actually had 3 exams in the first term of my first year (chemistry, math and cell bio). Ya but the rest of us had 5 that tend to be cramped together while trying to get in our end of year labs, papers and assignments. and one sem I had 2 midterms for every course. You can debate whether exams are useful but in the end, that's the way evaluation is done and that's what our marks are based on. Mac health sci doesn't have the same rigorous exam testing. 3 is typically the most you will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganjoa Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Ya but the rest of us had 5 that tend to be cramped together while trying to get in our end of year labs, papers and assignments. and one sem I had 2 midterms for every course. You can debate whether exams are useful but in the end, that's the way evaluation is done and that's what our marks are based on. Mac health sci doesn't have the same rigorous exam testing. 3 is typically the most you will have. I guess that's true, when it comes to exams we probably have it easier than students in other programs. But I am sure you guys also have electives that you can take that do not have any exams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganjoa Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 stop. i lived in mary keyes and shared many study rooms with hs grousp a few years and those meetings were 1 hr of work, 7 hrs on facebook. I guarantee you this is not the case for the majority of groups. In all my groups (over my 4 years in hth sci), people on facebook would get called out during group meetings. We also establish very specific expectations and norms for everyone at the beginning of the year. To give you an example, in my first year cell bio, I had meetings from afternoon till 3 AM in the morning (and I know of groups who stayed up the entire night). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganjoa Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 It is okay their program is unique and different and PBL etcc...., but this is also the same program that claims that they are just as rigorous as the life sciences program and claims that they are not really a premed program. This program is definitely designed for people getting into medical school. enlighten me please, but what mandatory (and challenging) courses do life science students take that health sci students do not take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheManwithNoName Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 health sci kids in my biochem class had never heard of a kinase or phosphorylase I am scratching my head at this. I mean I learned what those were in Biochem, but knowing what kinases and phosphoylases are, are essential in other Biology courses like Cell and Molecular Biology and Physiology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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